[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 155.

kslaughter

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Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Deprived on April 25, 2013, 03:54:17 PM

1. Are any commitments (with penalties for failure to meet) being made by VMC to AML in respect of delivery of the hardware?
2. What rights does AML have to cancel the agreement with VMC - specifically if VMC fails to meet deadlines/performance targets? It's pretty critical that this crystal clear if the two entities are managed by the same team - otherwise conflict of interest issues could easily arise.
3. Further to 3. can you confirm that if VMC fails (to a large extent) to meet deadlines/performance targets then AML WOULD cancel the contract and look for alternative sourcing?
4. If VMC fails to deliver in a reasonable time-frame is there any assurance that they would be able to refund AML the pre-order funds?

Where two entities run by the same team interact AND take outside investment it's absolutely key that all interaction between them is precisely defined in advance.

More general questions relating to VMC:

Obviously VMC needs a certain amount of capital to produce the ASICs. You've indicated that it may be seperately listed.

1. Would VMC be able to produce the hardware with ONLY the pre-order cash from AML (plus whatever cash you already have from other sources for it)?
2. If the answer to 1. is NO then what happens if VML fails to raise sufficient capital? What percentage (roughly) of necessary capital does the AML pre-order funds represent?
3. If the answer to 1. is YES then why would you need to float VML?

+10

Great post Deprived.

I will be creating a contract between AMC and VMC that will protect the investors of AMC and be fair to VMC.

I will post the proposed contract here in this thread. The contract will be executed as soon as AMC has funding.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

1. Are any commitments (with penalties for failure to meet) being made by VMC to AML in respect of delivery of the hardware?
2. What rights does AML have to cancel the agreement with VMC - specifically if VMC fails to meet deadlines/performance targets? It's pretty critical that this crystal clear if the two entities are managed by the same team - otherwise conflict of interest issues could easily arise.
3. Further to 3. can you confirm that if VMC fails (to a large extent) to meet deadlines/performance targets then AML WOULD cancel the contract and look for alternative sourcing?
4. If VMC fails to deliver in a reasonable time-frame is there any assurance that they would be able to refund AML the pre-order funds?

Where two entities run by the same team interact AND take outside investment it's absolutely key that all interaction between them is precisely defined in advance.

More general questions relating to VMC:

Obviously VMC needs a certain amount of capital to produce the ASICs. You've indicated that it may be seperately listed.

1. Would VMC be able to produce the hardware with ONLY the pre-order cash from AML (plus whatever cash you already have from other sources for it)?
2. If the answer to 1. is NO then what happens if VML fails to raise sufficient capital? What percentage (roughly) of necessary capital does the AML pre-order funds represent?
3. If the answer to 1. is YES then why would you need to float VML?

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Yes, InstantBTC, tries to show that AMC is not a good investment. However, he miss a few points in the discussion above.

First,

AMC purchases machines from VMC at manufactures cost. AMC can't purchase Avalons or BFL machines at manufactures cost. This is a big advantage to investors in AMC.

Second,

AMC gets the first machines VMC produces. AMC can't get the first machines Avalon or BFl produces. Advantage to investors in AMC.

Third,

AMC gets the first rights on future machines VMC produces. Another advantage to investors in AMC.

Fourth,

AMC gets a 10% royalty from VMC on machines that use AMC technology. This is the only point that InstantBTC uses to make his case.

Last,

Investors start getting revenue as soon as the 6 Avalons on order start mining and producting income. Another advantage to investors than InstanceBTC misses.

All of the above is why AMC is a good investment!

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO
Virtual Mining Corporation
http://www.virtualminingcorp.com
1+(855) One-Bitcoin (663-2482)

InstantBTC

member

Activity: 77

Merit: 10

Logs from a discussion I had with AMC__ in #bitfunder . Take from it what you will.

Code:

(11:07:38 AM) InstantBTC: AMC, what's returning the divs right now?
(11:10:21 AM) InstantBTC: nvm
(11:10:26 AM) InstantBTC: just read the profile
(11:43:36 AM) AMC__: None right now, waiting on the 6 Avalons to get here.
(11:44:29 AM) AMC__: some of the dividends that we paid was from investing the funds in ASICMiner unitil the funds are needed.
(11:46:55 AM) AMC__: AMC is also working with a Major semiconductor company to bring ASIC mining chips to the marketplace in a 5-10 week time frame.
(11:47:57 AM) AMC__: These would be 45nm chips which will be in our Fast-Hash-XXX series from 400 GH/s to 800 GH/s
(11:49:23 AM) InstantBTC: I see
(11:49:25 AM) AMC__: Then our Fast-Hash X.XT's series would be 28nm chips in a 12 month time frame and havd speeds of  1.2 TH/s to 4.8 TH/s
(11:49:25 AM) InstantBTC: interesting
(11:49:44 AM) InstantBTC: approximately how much will the 45nm chips cost?
(11:50:10 AM) AMC__: The Machines?
(11:50:30 AM) InstantBTC: if that's what you're selling, sure
(11:50:41 AM) InstantBTC: if you're selling individual chips, then I mean per chip
(11:51:43 AM) AMC__: Estimated price on the Fast-Hash-400 are ~30,000
(11:51:52 AM) AMC__: $
(11:52:31 AM) AMC__: However, depending on the market when we manufacture them, the price would be adjusted to market.
(11:52:59 AM) AMC__: We are sell machines.
(11:53:50 AM) AMC__: Our first machines will be based on Avalon chips.
(11:54:20 AM) AMC__: VMC is the company selling the machines.  AMC is buying the first 100 machines from VMC.
(11:54:53 AM) AMC__: and has the First rights on machines manufactured by VMC.
(11:55:03 AM) AMC__: AMC has.
(11:55:18 AM) InstantBTC: okay and, I haven't done any math here but... why would somebody invest say $30,000 in the first model, when if they wait a month or two or however long it will be, they can get a much faster model. 
(11:55:59 AM) AMC__: The first model is $3,999 and is 80 GH/s
(11:56:52 AM) AMC__: Well, everyday you wait cost money when you are not mining.
(11:57:47 AM) AMC__: AMC is a mining cooperative and buys all the machines and does the mining.  Then pays out dividends.
(11:58:44 AM) AMC__: Fast-Hash-400 estimated delivery date is March 2014
(12:00:34 PM) AMC__: Not having the 6 Avalons here mining is 2590.85 a day lost.
(12:02:42 PM) AMC__: AT the current $148 price for BTC it is 3171.87 per day.
(12:23:36 PM) InstantBTC: wait im confused
(12:23:37 PM) InstantBTC: so
(12:23:56 PM) InstantBTC: the shares are for mining profit? or for profit from sales of the rigs
(12:23:57 PM) InstantBTC: or both
(12:26:21 PM) AMC__: the shares are for the mining profits and AMC gets a 10% royalty from VMC sales for using the technology it creates.
(12:27:24 PM) AMC__: AMC also gets a number of machines at manufactures cost and has the first rights on machines in the future.
(12:27:45 PM) candoo left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(12:29:17 PM) AMC__: AMC will get the first 100 machines in each batch of Fast-Hash-80's
(12:29:41 PM) AMC__: build by VMC.
(12:30:19 PM) AMC__: VMC will also sell machines to the public and AMC will receive a 10% royalty from those sales.
(12:32:47 PM) AMC__: The 6 Avalons when received will generate immediate dividends to share holders.
(12:34:06 PM) AMC__: Also 20,000,000 shares will received dividends, that go the growth and expansion fund to pay for machines from VMC.
(12:34:36 PM) InstantBTC: okay... so who runs VMC?
(12:35:11 PM) AMC__: Kenneth E. Slaughter
(12:35:20 PM) InstantBTC: who runs AMC?
(12:35:40 PM) AMC__: AMC is a business unit of VMC.
(12:36:30 PM) AMC__: Just a separate cooperative that does the mining.  It has separate accounting.
(12:37:52 PM) InstantBTC: okay. so let me get this straight.... AMC (which is public) is funding VMC (which is privately owned). AMC gets 10% royalties from VMC. 
(12:38:18 PM) AMC__: Only the expenses in the offering will be charged to AMC, those just for mining.  Up to a max of 10%.
(12:38:40 PM) InstantBTC: could you rephrase that?
(12:38:57 PM) InstantBTC: not sure I understand what you said
(12:39:17 PM) InstantBTC: VMC's expenses will be charged to AMC?
(12:39:17 PM) AMC__: AMC which is going public is developing the technology and gets a number of benfits from VMC for its technology.
(12:39:55 PM) AMC__: No, only expenses that are directly related to Bitcoin mining get charged to AMC.
(12:42:43 PM) InstantBTC: right.. okay. excuse me if this sounds harsh but... to me it sounds like AMC is just a shell to screw investors out of money that they are really investing into VMC, but it has a few "perks" just to suger coat it. Obviously those perks are still < than what investors be entitled to if VMC was public though, otherwise you would simply make VMC public instead of making a shell for public funding.
(12:43:43 PM) AMC__: VMC will have its own offering and will be also funded by pre-orders.
(12:44:31 PM) InstantBTC: if VMC is going public, why bother making AMC?
(12:44:43 PM) AMC__: AMC is just a mining cooperative, not a manufacture.  AMC will have a return to investor as soon as the Avalons get here.
(12:45:40 PM) AMC__: Did AMC first, they have the machines coming in.  VMC was a second though after the cooperative.  Was going to buy
(12:45:57 PM) AMC__: Avalons and BFL.
(12:46:42 PM) AMC__: Decided to build my own.  Using Avalon chip for the fast-Hash-80's
(12:46:51 PM) AMC__: *chips
(12:47:25 PM) InstantBTC: why not just make them one entity
(12:47:33 PM) AMC__: The two have different roles.  AMC is a mining cooperative and VMC is a manufacture.
(12:47:52 PM) InstantBTC: AM does both
(12:48:40 PM) AMC__: Could do that I guess, but I like the way the mining revenue is kept separate.  I think that would be good for investors.
(12:48:44 PM) InstantBTC: having two separate entities is either screwing investors or screwing you. I find it hard to believe that you'd do extra work to screw yourself, so it just seems obvious that the two entities is screwed the investors
(12:48:59 PM) AMC__: It is mosly screwing me.
(12:49:48 PM) InstantBTC: then make them joint entities. that way there isn't any question about who's getting screwed
(12:50:15 PM) InstantBTC: it would make it much easier for you, and make it look less suspicious
(12:50:49 PM) InstantBTC: if it really is screwing you. then you have all the reasons in the world to make them one entity
(12:50:54 PM) AMC__: The investors are not going to get screwed with AMC.  Just watch the dividends start being paid.
(12:51:25 PM) InstantBTC: if its not screwing you then it's screwing investors, which I think ultimately would lead to failure
(12:51:41 PM) AMC__: Why?
(12:51:55 PM) AMC__: I think it is a Win-Win
(12:52:22 PM) InstantBTC: the investors are being screwed if their money is being reinvested into another company, in which they're only entitled to 10% royalties
(12:53:56 PM) AMC__: They are getting a lot more that a 10% royalty.  The money is not being invested into VMC.  AMC is buying machines and
(12:54:08 PM) AMC__: getting them at manufactures cost.
(12:54:32 PM) AMC__: And getting them first.
(12:55:23 PM) InstantBTC: you said that AMC gets 10% royalty for technology it creates
(12:55:52 PM) InstantBTC: is the technology it creates 100% free?
(12:56:53 PM) InstantBTC: how is the technology going to be created if not using investor's money to do it?
(12:57:47 PM) AMC__: You are missing a lot of what AMC gets.
(12:58:07 PM) InstantBTC: I already expressed my believe of what AMC gets as being a distraction
(12:58:13 PM) InstantBTC: and please answer the question I asked
(12:58:23 PM) AMC__: If AMC bought the machines say from Avalon, they would have to pay retail for those machines. Right?
(12:58:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:55:23 PM) InstantBTC: you said that AMC gets 10% royalty for technology it creates
(12:58:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:55:52 PM) InstantBTC: is the technology it creates 100% free?
(12:58:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:56:53 PM) InstantBTC: how is the technology going to be created if not using investor's money to do it?
(12:59:27 PM) AMC__: It is, but you are missing what AMC is getting, they are not just getting a 10% royalty.
(01:01:05 PM) AMC__: So if AMC bought machine from Avalon they would have to pay retail. Right?
(01:01:09 PM) InstantBTC: okay, so it uses AMC is funding VMC. now tell me. How does it benefit investors that they are separate entities?
(01:01:25 PM) AMC__: AMC is not funding VMC!
(01:01:29 PM) InstantBTC: you just saidi t
(01:01:38 PM) InstantBTC: (12:59:27 PM) AMC__: It is, but you are missing what AMC is getting, they are not just getting a 10% royalty.
(01:02:02 PM) InstantBTC: how does it benefit AMC investors that VMC is a separate entity? 
(01:02:10 PM) AMC__: Well, they are buying machine from VMC.  AMC is not funding VMC.
(01:02:43 PM) InstantBTC: sure, preordering them from VMC. same thing as funding. 
(01:02:50 PM) AMC__: AMC investors do not have to take on the burden of VMC expenses to manufacture the machines
(01:03:07 PM) AMC__: Whatever you think.
(01:03:18 PM) InstantBTC: but they are funding VMC, so they are indeed taking on the burden of the expenses
(01:04:03 PM) AMC__: No, AMC does not have a lot of the expenses that VMC will have manufacturing machines, that is why it is seperate.
(01:04:21 PM) InstantBTC: example of those expenses?
(01:05:18 PM) AMC__: What expenses do you think a manfacture would have, like the warehouse space, SMT machine, labor, etc.
(01:05:38 PM) AMC__: None of those will be bore by AMC.
(01:06:22 PM) AMC__: AMC gets Bitcoin mining machines at a good price for its money.
(01:06:39 PM) AMC__: Has none of the expenses of manufacturing.
(01:07:01 PM) InstantBTC: but AMC is buying at manufacturers cost. via preorder. so. in short, it's paying exactly what VMC needs to pay to produce the devices
(01:07:24 PM) InstantBTC: including costs of labor, warehouse space, etc
(01:07:29 PM) InstantBTC: this is also known as funding
(01:07:31 PM) AMC__: So is Avalon and BFL what is the difference
(01:07:58 PM) InstantBTC: so, this brings me back to. AMC is funding VMC, but it's only entitled to 10% of the royalties
(01:07:58 PM) AMC__: Yes, you can fund a compay by sales,  VMC is going to sale to the public also.
(01:08:24 PM) AMC__: That is enough.  You buy the shares or not.
(01:08:39 PM) InstantBTC: lol. you still haven't answered my question
(01:08:47 PM) AMC__: So
(01:08:58 PM) InstantBTC: How do AMC's investors benefit from AMC and VMC being separate entities?
(01:09:47 PM) AMC__: AMC benfits by not have VMC's manufacturing expenses.  You want to pay VMC expenses from the mining revenue?
(01:10:17 PM) AMC__: You didn't answer my question either.
(01:10:20 PM) InstantBTC: yes. that's how it should be. considering AMC is funding VMC (which you already agreed to)
(01:11:15 PM) AMC__: Only funding VMC by way of Sales.  If AMC was buying Avalons then AMC would be funding Avalon.  Same thing.
(01:12:21 PM) InstantBTC: lets do a little math here. so lets say VMC has 2 customers okay? one being AMC, the other being Random bitcoiner which I'll refer to as RB
(01:12:29 PM) InstantBTC: so.
(01:12:39 PM) AMC__: Let not I have other things to do today.
(01:12:59 PM) AMC__: If you like it, buy it, if not don't
(01:13:03 PM) InstantBTC: lets say manufacturing cost is 20k (which is probably much higher than it really is)
(01:13:06 PM) InstantBTC: so
(01:13:21 PM) InstantBTC: AMC pays 20k, RB pays 30k
(01:14:27 PM) InstantBTC: total profit for VMC is 10k, AMC is entitled to 10% of that, which means AMC gets 1k + a rig
(01:15:13 PM) InstantBTC: VMC gets 9k and manufacturing process is set up
(01:15:24 PM) InstantBTC: lets run another scenario
(01:15:40 PM) InstantBTC: where AMC is doing the manufactuering
(01:15:55 PM) InstantBTC: AMC buys their own for 20k, and RB pays 30k
(01:16:13 PM) InstantBTC: AMC gets a rig plus 10k profit
(01:16:48 PM) InstantBTC: so tell me
(01:17:07 PM) InstantBTC: how does AMC investors benefit from them being separate entities?
(01:17:47 PM) AMC__: I told you about 100 times.
(01:18:11 PM) InstantBTC: not really
(01:18:36 PM) InstantBTC: because if AMC is paying for the expenses (ie. manufactuer's cost)
(01:19:12 PM) InstantBTC: then they do have the burden of the expenses
(01:19:59 PM) InstantBTC: am I wrong here?
(01:20:11 PM) AMC__: Yes you are.
(01:20:16 PM) InstantBTC: then explain it to me
(01:20:33 PM) InstantBTC: how is the scenario I drew there wrong?
(01:20:38 PM) AMC__: I already did, I am sorry that you can not understand.
(01:21:13 PM) AMC__: Let me ask you a question, Ok?
(01:21:17 PM) InstantBTC: go ahead
(01:21:42 PM) AMC__: Can you buy Avalons at manufactures cost today?  Yes or No
(01:21:50 PM) InstantBTC: can VMC?
(01:22:04 PM) AMC__: answer my question
(01:22:07 PM) InstantBTC: no I can't
(01:22:09 PM) InstantBTC: answer mine
(01:22:21 PM) AMC__: you first, then I will answer yours
(01:22:25 PM) InstantBTC: I already did
(01:22:29 PM) InstantBTC: I said no I can't
(01:22:37 PM) InstantBTC: I can not buy avalons at manufactuers cost today
(01:22:39 PM) AMC__: Ok, that is enough, ttyl
(01:22:51 PM) InstantBTC: lol?
(01:23:31 PM) AMC__: VMC can't, but AMC can from VMC.  that is the anwser to your question above.
(01:23:52 PM) InstantBTC: I rest my case
(01:23:59 PM) AMC__: Good, me too.

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: burnside on April 25, 2013, 01:29:43 AM

Quote from: kslaughter on April 24, 2013, 08:55:33 PM

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.

Looking a lot better.

http://www.virtualminingcorp.com/index.html:

Quote

Fast-Hash is a trademark of Virtual Mining Corporation.

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark. US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.

Thanks, I tried to include all of the communities valid points in the offering.

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on April 25, 2013, 01:37:12 AM

Quote from: burnside on April 25, 2013, 01:29:43 AM

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark. US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.

This.

Should also fix "Caption Image".

Thanks.

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: burnside on April 25, 2013, 01:29:43 AM

Quote from: kslaughter on April 24, 2013, 08:55:33 PM

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.

Looking a lot better.

http://www.virtualminingcorp.com/index.html:

Quote

Fast-Hash is a trademark of Virtual Mining Corporation.

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark. US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.

Thanks, I know all about trademarks. If you would like to look, you can check out where I defended my AXS mark against Swiss Air, and EDP.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1043

👻

Quote from: burnside on April 25, 2013, 01:29:43 AM

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark. US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.

This.

Should also fix "Caption Image".

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1006

Lead Blockchain Developer

Quote from: kslaughter on April 24, 2013, 08:55:33 PM

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.

Looking a lot better.

http://www.virtualminingcorp.com/index.html:

Quote

Fast-Hash is a trademark of Virtual Mining Corporation.

You should probably register that if you're going to claim trademark. US PTO Trademark search comes up empty.

Cheers.

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Reworked Offering posted above in the first posting of the thread.

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

AMC was originally considered, thought up, and began investigating possibilities as early as December of last year.
I decided to leverage my connections, background and experience to create a mining cooperative. A plan was formed
to purchase ASIC mining equipment out of my own pocket, and use them to raise funding to invest into more mining
equipment, and to the initial investments of fabricating our own ASIC chips. Right before the IPO launch of the
AMC asset on BitFunder, I was made aware of the many updates, changes, and delays to Avalon that were never communicated
directly to me as a purchaser. Admittedly, I scrambled to adjust things more than once to compensate for recent changes
in both Bitcoin and Avalon.

I have just issued a full reimbursement to all current AMC shareholders at the original price of 0.01 BTC and removed
all current shares. The asset will remain frozen on private status for now.

Over the next while, I will be working to update, correct, and remake an agreement so that it is clear, and sensible to all.
I hope that all of the current investors understand and can appreciate that I have done this with their best interests in mind.

I look forward to great things with the community and bitcoin. This is a very exciting time for everyone, including myself.

Thank You,
Kenneth E. Slaughter
Active Mining Cooperative

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Reworking the offering.

Check out info on the offering here:

https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC

I will unlock this thread when we get the offering reworked.

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on March 28, 2013, 01:23:15 AM

TXIDs for ordering your 2x50 Avalon Batch 3 orders?

I ordered them, but they are not confirmed. Even if I had them you still would
not believe it.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1043

👻

TXIDs for ordering your 2x50 Avalon Batch 3 orders?

kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: chriswen on March 27, 2013, 08:48:45 PM

Why 115 btc each?
Also, why didn't you use http://store.avalon-asics.com/?

And for some reason I can't buy any shares on bitfunder?

I received an email from Avalon, I believe on March 20, 2013, then I think I found a post on BitcoinTalk which stated that the price for a 3 unit model was 88 BTC
and that a 4 unit model was 115. It also said to send Ngzhang an email if you wanted to order 50 units or more, so that is what I did. I was hurrying to change my
offering because of the over 4X price increase and the fact that it said they where going to start selling on Friday. I did not use the link because I sent the email, however
I was working hard to get the offer up and raise the money to purchase at least 50 units if I could. That is why there is 2 orders of 50.

Working with Ukto at bitfunder on getting AMC back up.

chriswen

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kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Deprived on March 27, 2013, 07:26:46 PM

There's nothing in the contract about what happens if the company (is it a company anyway?) closes or is sold. That's a pretty key item to have misssed out - especially given ambiguity over ownership of the already ordered Avalons.

It's also not clear what the relevance of the growth/expansion shares are - given that shareholders returns are defined as a fixed percent of profit. What happens with rest of shares is pretty meaningless - giving a vague definition for 20% and no definition for the other 40% is pointless.

It's also terrible value to use funds from IPO to buy shares in other companies. 100% of the purchase price of those shares comes from IPO funds and only up to 40% of profit from them gos to shareholders - a poor substitute for them just using those funds to invest directly themselves. If you think you'll be more profitable than the other companies then use the funds for your own operation. If you think you'll be less profitable then cancel the IPO and invest in the other companies yourself.

100 Avalon Batch 3 @ 85 GH/s each for a total of:
8.5 TH/s (to be shipped: End April 2013) (Ordered 2 orders of 50 each)

Are you saying you've already ordered 100 Batch 3 Avalons?

Deprived, Yes the plan if you would read it completely does say what happens if it is sold.

The ASICMiner shares are just a hold place for funds until we have to use them, lot better to be getting dividends for our share holders that to have the funds sitting in a account
earning anything. It was Ukto suggestion to do that and I agreed that it was good. The ASICMiner shares are very liquid, so as we need funds to execute our plan we will sell
the ASICMiner shares.

I also have the paper work here to rescidn the administrative dissolution of Virtual Mining, Inc. and a form to
register a fictitious name. I will be completing this in the next few days.

Yes, I did order the 2 orders of 50 by sending an email to ngzhang as he instructed in his email, however I have not receive a confirmation on them.

Here is the source of the email which you will say I forged, but here it is:

From - Thu Mar 21 20:12:50 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:12:44 -0500
From: AXS CEO <[email protected]>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Batch 3 Order
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ngzhang,

I would like to place 2 orders in batch 3 of 50 units each of the 85
GH/s for 115 BTC each.

Kenneth E. Slaughter
Active Mining Cooperative
1951 S. Oak Grove Ave.
Springfield, Missouri 65804-2703
USA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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kslaughter

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

You are right Deprived, both Mac65 and I are more doers that talkers, so I just read post here most of the time I don't log in. Now, I see
I should have been logging in. I have now post in my thread my business experience and named the one of my most successful companies.

Mac65 is running two very successful businesses right now. I have been talking to him about Bitcoins, over the last year. He has just now
ordered some units from BFL to get started in mining.

I started mining in 2009, got off on another track until early 2012 when I started mining with GPU's

Just because we have not been logged in to this board does not mean that we are not real. I am kind of unsociable and more of a doer.

But, you can take it for what it is worth. It just will take a little time to build up trust, so I have started down that road.

The team is made up of Independent Contractors that I have known for a long time that have different skills in different areas, which I
pay for their services. Yes. the devil is in the details. I use lot of professionals to get the details done. I am working with a Major
Semiconductor Company now with lots of professional I can hire, if needed to complete the project.

So, just sit back and watch as we put this project together, start paying dividends from our ASICminer fund, the purchased Avalon's, and
our ASIC 45nm chip that we can get prototypes in a 5-10 week time-frame after delivering them our RTL.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

There's nothing in the contract about what happens if the company (is it a company anyway?) closes or is sold. That's a pretty key item to have misssed out - especially given ambiguity over ownership of the already ordered Avalons.

It's also not clear what the relevance of the growth/expansion shares are - given that shareholders returns are defined as a fixed percent of profit. What happens with rest of shares is pretty meaningless - giving a vague definition for 20% and no definition for the other 40% is pointless.

It's also terrible value to use funds from IPO to buy shares in other companies. 100% of the purchase price of those shares comes from IPO funds and only up to 40% of profit from them gos to shareholders - a poor substitute for them just using those funds to invest directly themselves. If you think you'll be more profitable than the other companies then use the funds for your own operation. If you think you'll be less profitable then cancel the IPO and invest in the other companies yourself.

100 Avalon Batch 3 @ 85 GH/s each for a total of:
8.5 TH/s (to be shipped: End April 2013) (Ordered 2 orders of 50 each)

Are you saying you've already ordered 100 Batch 3 Avalons?

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1043

👻

There's also this issue of discussion threads being self moderated. It allows the asset issuer to delete posts critical of the venture, and mislead people into believing that the community thinks the asset is a good idea when it is a bag of shit.

Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 155. (Read 223316 times)