Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 7. (Read 223334 times)

Shit, I think we are already there.  GPU mining is dead unless you have free electricity, at current difficulty, a 10GH miner will only produce .19 BTC a day... what will they make next week?  

okay kslaughter, don't be greedy, bitcoin's exchange rate has appreciated again, drop the bid wall again to reflect that

I don't think anyone is suggesting ActM has a binary game plan that requires x TH to deploy now or x TH in 3 months. ActM will continue to build, sell and deploy miners as the months unfold, to keep up with and challenge the increase in difficulty we all see coming. In other words you are not buying a fixed TH mining bond with this asset - you are buying an *active* mining company.

I'd say it destroys uninformed customers much more than it destroys companies. Companies can calculate their profit margins and time-frames with great expertise. What happens when the Avalon bought today is the GPU of 2014?

At some point people will realize that unless they go directly to the most recent die shrink (currently 28nm) they are just throwing money away. Asicminer's and Avalon's 110nm tech is from ~2003, BFL's 65nm is from ~2006, Bitfury's 45nm is from ~2008. The current 28nm tech is from 2011-2012, with the next one being 20nm in ~2014.

Targeting 28nm from the get go is the only thing that makes sense at the moment, since it's the only one that guarantees you'll have the most time available to use the equipment until it stops being profitable.

I like your thinking. 

The way I see it, the market is RIPE for a company that has reliable inventory, shipped on demand, and priced at a level that miners can expect to actually make their money back in a year or so. Of all the other ASIC retailers, you can pretty much "pick 2" (if even) from those traits. If ActiveMining's production method is as efficient and cheap as I've been lead to believe, then they could quickly put themselves in that position and become the market leader.

I think the ASIC craze will die down quite a bit after many miners fail to reach their ROI in the coming months—the massive increase in difficulty may squash late order BFLs, block eruptors, and the latest asicminer blades. However, there will always be an enormous demand for the newest, fastest, most efficient mining tech.

Conversly, look at the amount of chips inept BFL was able to sell, and we all know the sentiment carried for that POS.  People are ASIC crazy, chip sales will be high

The chosen asic process (eAsic nextreme) guarantees a chip manufactured in a specific time-frame with "expected" zero delays, that's what they are all about. This is not initially a fully-custom asic. There are numerous examples of eAsic nextreme benefits on the web, for example, read http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/15462/nextreme-structured-asics-an-alternative-for-designing-cost-optimized-arm926ej-processor-based-embedded-systems.html for a comparison of the benefits and drawbacks of eAsic's nextreme route vs others.

Also, remember that eAsic does provide a means to convert the chip to a cell-based asic, for a seamless transition, http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1316644

The dividend of 0.0025/share will be paid in record time once ActM starts selling 28nm chips/machines. Just look at how many chips/machines Avalon sold in a few months, http://thegenesisblock.com/latest-shipment-of-avalon-asics-could-increase-network-hashrate-by-500/

0. You'd have to work quite hard to replicate the BFL fiasco. It isn't likely to happen with ActM.
1. The only thing holding back 28nm is capital, not technical hurdles. The capital *will* be raised, it is only a question of how best to do it and how quickly it can be done.
2. Dividends of 0.0025 BTC / share is absolutely doable, as the likes of ASICMINER have shown. This isn't the real world, so we shouldn't feel constrained by its norms.

I feel like this is a non-issue at the moment, as Ken has many avenues to get the NRE, as he stated in the ActiveMining thread:

IMO pre-order without having actual hardware to sell will result in another BFL fiasco.

Few ideas:
1. Cheap NRE at 45 nm or 40 nm instead of state of the art 28 nm. How much will it cost and what are the downsides?
2. Investors (shareholders) vote to decrease dividend to just 10% profits for the next 3 years. This will create growth fund for future expenses. In the real world no start up pays any dividend for many years.

-Technologov

Chipping away at the wall helps, but I'm now convinced that pre-sales are the way to go. I suggest a small batch of miners tendered for sale Avalon style, with the sole intention of raising funds to complete payment of the NRE. If the purpose of this sale and a reasonable estimate for delivery is provided, I could see them selling out very quickly. Refund requests would only be accepted after, say, 30 days.

A second, larger batch could be offered for pre-sale, clearly marked as contingent on the successful manufacture of the chip, with the option for a full refund on request.

Realistically there is no way to know that, because difficulty increases, delay to manufacture, pre order numbers, sales of hardware, the hashing power and any other numbers of factors will affect how much revenue the company (or any other company for that matter) will make.

Just ignore him. 

Go home, hennessyhemp, you're drunk! high!

ITT: breakeven. When will these shares break even from dividends?

Just curious, because if I load up to take down those bid walls, me and everybody else is going to be verrrryy illiquid trying to liquidate any meaningful amount of shares in the future.

Disambiguation:

Hey folks, my account was hacked on July 10th, in an apparent attempt to use my account like a pump and dump...post on every major thread.  Yes that is my picture.  Yes I believe industrial hemp to be the future of America and just about every country on the planet.  You can see this to be true by realizing I DO have all my real life personality connected here.  Review my posts up to the tenth and then check out the massive difference in the posts marked the 10th.  I have connected my real life personality freely as I intend to do good business here...and in fact have.

Anyhow, sorry if that prick offended anyone, I certainly never tried to...and am appalled that someone would use my account
to ruffle up feathers...that doesn't even seem like it's in line with his mission to pump the account...why would you piss people off when you're trying to gain credibility...I don't get it.

Also, hell yeah I'm fun to party with!

Oh...and damn straight I've had trouble with the law ladies...you may commence swooning.

I also have twitter and facebook...hennessyhemp

I intend to help legalize industrial hemp and marijuana (in that specific order), as I believe it is an assault on our rights as humans on this planet to keep mankind from a plant which is so clearly meant to be for mankind.  The seed produces a rare chemical compound found in a human mothers milk (and very uncommon in plants).  Whether you believe in God or not...there is no denying this plant was meant to be linked to humanity, and that it has always been here for us.

Making a plant illegal is like saying God was wrong - Bill Hicks

Growth is classified as an expense. The above phrase just means Ken doesn't receive a satoshi on his shares until BTC0.0025 is paid per share to the first 10,000,000 public shares (which is every share in circulation right now).