Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 8. (Read 223334 times)
You need to speculate to accumulate - I'm buying another lump of shares, if we all chip in a little more now we will see results sooner.
Good points, but as you can see from the chart Ken posted around 90% of income derived from mining is then deducted as expenses due to commitments to dividends, thus mining will play a very minimal role in achieving the NRE funding goal.
That's just because the growth fund shares were also receiving dividends (and around ~85% of them!). On ActM that percentage is adaptable to overcome specific needs.
It is my understanding that ActM does not have a growth fund, is this incorrect?
You are correct, ActM does not have a "growth fund" as a specific number of shares, but it comes to reason that some of the overall profits must be held for future growth. More or less would depend on the income stream and the immediacy for funds.
How does withholding profits jive with
Quote
Public investor's protection plan
The first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares have the privilege of getting all profits until BTC0.0025/share is paid, starting from the day when dividends begin to be paid
The first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares have the privilege of getting all profits until BTC0.0025/share is paid, starting from the day when dividends begin to be paid
It is my understanding that ActM does not have a growth fund, is this incorrect?
ActiveMining does not have a defined growth and expansion fund.
Here are the detail of the dividend payment made yesterday:
Mining Revenue for the week: 80.00 BTC.
Growth And Expansion Fund Payment: 61.13 BTC
=======
Total 141.13 BTC
The Growth And Expansion Fund is not need now as we are unwinding AMC and preparing for it to be merged into
Active Mining which does not have a Growth And Expansion Fund defined. Growth And Expansion will come from
the general revenue of the company, which can include income from mining, sales, and services. Also, the shares
which AMC owned and where receiving dividends were de-issued as it did not serve any purpose due to the
merger for AMC to continue receiving dividends.
Mining Revenue for the week: 80.00 BTC.
Growth And Expansion Fund Payment: 61.13 BTC
=======
Total 141.13 BTC
The Growth And Expansion Fund is not need now as we are unwinding AMC and preparing for it to be merged into
Active Mining which does not have a Growth And Expansion Fund defined. Growth And Expansion will come from
the general revenue of the company, which can include income from mining, sales, and services. Also, the shares
which AMC owned and where receiving dividends were de-issued as it did not serve any purpose due to the
merger for AMC to continue receiving dividends.
Good points, but as you can see from the chart Ken posted around 90% of income derived from mining is then deducted as expenses due to commitments to dividends, thus mining will play a very minimal role in achieving the NRE funding goal.
That's just because the growth fund shares were also receiving dividends (and around ~85% of them!). On ActM that percentage is adaptable to overcome specific needs.
It is my understanding that ActM does not have a growth fund, is this incorrect?
You are correct, ActM does not have a "growth fund" as a specific number of shares, but it comes to reason that some of the overall profits must be held for future growth. More or less would depend on the income stream and the immediacy for funds.
Good points, but as you can see from the chart Ken posted around 90% of income derived from mining is then deducted as expenses due to commitments to dividends, thus mining will play a very minimal role in achieving the NRE funding goal.
That's just because the growth fund shares were also receiving dividends (and around ~85% of them!). On ActM that percentage is adaptable to overcome specific needs.
It is my understanding that ActM does not have a growth fund, is this incorrect?
Good points, but as you can see from the chart Ken posted around 90% of income derived from mining is then deducted as expenses due to commitments to dividends, thus mining will play a very minimal role in achieving the NRE funding goal.
That's just because the growth fund shares were also receiving dividends (and around ~85% of them!). On ActM that percentage is adaptable to overcome specific needs.
Nice catch, I did not see that the dates on the report were quite old.
Also, 1,567,702 (btct.co wall) + 885,625 (outstanding) - 511,678 (previous) = 1,941,649 * 0.0025 = BTC4854.1225
BTC2452 + BTC2361 + BTC4854 = ~BTC9667 when btct.co wall is fully depleted. I'm expecting that with some other funding options the wall won't even get to zero before being removed.
My main concern now is the rate at which the wall can be depleted, as it seems that nothing can get done without the NRE being funded.
Also, Ken stated that he sold a number of bitcoins at 68 dollars, and given that bitcoins have not been above 100 USD for a long time (mostly hovering around 85ish for the last few weeks), Ken will need maybe an additional 20%, or 12000 bitcoins before we see him pay the NRE.
The wall seems to be steadily disappearing, but if a slowdown in consumption begins, then the whole operation would seemingly be put into jeopardy (as posited above, no progress on hardware can begin until NRE paid).
As I have argued, perhaps it would be wise to rely not SOLELY on stock sales in order to fund the NRE. This means using pre-order money or taking out a loan via the local bank.
Remember that there are still 20,000 avalon chips arriving sometime next month, and the 68 Klondike-16 boards this month. That will put ActM on 6.377 TH/s very shortly. Even at a network hashrate of ~500TH/s, those will still generate ~BTC1,642.70 per month, not counting the fact some can be sold at a good price if required.
I'd risk to say the chip is a done deal at this point!
Good points, but as you can see from the chart Ken posted around 90% of income derived from mining is then deducted as expenses due to commitments to dividends, thus mining will play a very minimal role in achieving the NRE funding goal.
Nice catch, I did not see that the dates on the report were quite old.
Also, 1,567,702 (btct.co wall) + 885,625 (outstanding) - 511,678 (previous) = 1,941,649 * 0.0025 = BTC4854.1225
BTC2452 + BTC2361 + BTC4854 = ~BTC9667 when btct.co wall is fully depleted. I'm expecting that with some other funding options the wall won't even get to zero before being removed.
My main concern now is the rate at which the wall can be depleted, as it seems that nothing can get done without the NRE being funded.
Also, Ken stated that he sold a number of bitcoins at 68 dollars, and given that bitcoins have not been above 100 USD for a long time (mostly hovering around 85ish for the last few weeks), Ken will need maybe an additional 20%, or 12000 bitcoins before we see him pay the NRE.
The wall seems to be steadily disappearing, but if a slowdown in consumption begins, then the whole operation would seemingly be put into jeopardy (as posited above, no progress on hardware can begin until NRE paid).
As I have argued, perhaps it would be wise to rely not SOLELY on stock sales in order to fund the NRE. This means using pre-order money or taking out a loan via the local bank.
Remember that there are still 20,000 avalon chips arriving sometime next month, and the 68 Klondike-16 boards this month. That will put ActM on 6.377 TH/s very shortly. Even at a network hashrate of ~500TH/s, those will still generate ~BTC1,642.70 per month, not counting the fact some can be sold at a good price if required.
I'd risk to say the chip is a done deal at this point!
Nice catch, I did not see that the dates on the report were quite old.
Also, 1,567,702 (btct.co wall) + 885,625 (outstanding) - 511,678 (previous) = 1,941,649 * 0.0025 = BTC4854.1225
BTC2452 + BTC2361 + BTC4854 = ~BTC9667 when btct.co wall is fully depleted. I'm expecting that with some other funding options the wall won't even get to zero before being removed.
My main concern now is the rate at which the wall can be depleted, as it seems that nothing can get done without the NRE being funded.
Also, Ken stated that he sold a number of bitcoins at 68 dollars, and given that bitcoins have not been above 100 USD for a long time (mostly hovering around 85ish for the last few weeks), Ken will need maybe an additional 20%, or 12000 bitcoins before we see him pay the NRE.
The wall seems to be steadily disappearing, but if a slowdown in consumption begins, then the whole operation would seemingly be put into jeopardy (as posited above, no progress on hardware can begin until NRE paid).
As I have argued, perhaps it would be wise to rely not SOLELY on stock sales in order to fund the NRE. This means using pre-order money or taking out a loan via the local bank.
Now that's more like it.
This means when the wall on BTC-TC is gone (with the number FloatesMcgoates used in his post), we would have (3957.34+5709.21)/10000 = 0.966655 = ~96.7 % funded.
When taking into account that we also have other sources of funding, the NRE cost should be covered even before this.
This means when the wall on BTC-TC is gone (with the number FloatesMcgoates used in his post), we would have (3957.34+5709.21)/10000 = 0.966655 = ~96.7 % funded.
When taking into account that we also have other sources of funding, the NRE cost should be covered even before this.
Me likey your math!
Ken, you say that you need more than 10k BTC for the NRE. Your chart shows that you currently have around 2.5k, so there are 7.5k more Bitcoins you need. However, the entire wall on BTCT would only provide 3957.34. How do you plan to deal with this discrepancy?
+1If you check the dates, the NRE funds are still not accounted for in this balance, those are just the funds from the 5M initial shares.
With these, from the ~24th June to ~28th June:
.0025 Shares sold on Bifunder: 432,649
.0025 Shares sold on BTC-TC: 511,678
Total: 944,327
944323/4000000 = 0.23608075 = ~23.6 % funded
Which should account for +BTC2360.8075..0025 Shares sold on BTC-TC: 511,678
Total: 944,327
944323/4000000 = 0.23608075 = ~23.6 % funded
Btct.co shares are currently at 870,304, so that's more 358,626 shares sold (should even be more since some were tendered to BF) for +BTC896.565.
Current Total: ~BTC5709.21
Nice catch, I did not see that the dates on the report were quite old.
Now that's more like it.
This means when the wall on BTC-TC is gone (with the number FloatesMcgoates used in his post), we would have (3957.34+5709.21)/10000 = 0.966655 = ~96.7 % funded.
When taking into account that we also have other sources of funding, the NRE cost should be covered even before this.
Edit: Vbs beat me to it.
Nice catch, I did not see that the dates on the report were quite old.
Also, 1,567,702 (btct.co wall) + 885,625 (outstanding) - 511,678 (previous) = 1,941,649 * 0.0025 = BTC4854.1225
BTC2452 + BTC2361 + BTC4854 = ~BTC9667 when btct.co wall is fully depleted. I'm expecting that with some other funding options the wall won't even get to zero before being removed.
Ken, you say that you need more than 10k BTC for the NRE. Your chart shows that you currently have around 2.5k, so there are 7.5k more Bitcoins you need. However, the entire wall on BTCT would only provide 3957.34. How do you plan to deal with this discrepancy?
+1If you check the dates, the NRE funds are still not accounted for in this balance, those are just the funds from the 5M initial shares.
With these, from the ~24th June to ~28th June:
.0025 Shares sold on Bifunder: 432,649
.0025 Shares sold on BTC-TC: 511,678
Total: 944,327
944323/4000000 = 0.23608075 = ~23.6 % funded
Which should account for +BTC2360.8075..0025 Shares sold on BTC-TC: 511,678
Total: 944,327
944323/4000000 = 0.23608075 = ~23.6 % funded
Btct.co shares are currently at 870,304, so that's more 358,626 shares sold (should even be more since some were tendered to BF) for +BTC896.565.
Current Total: ~BTC5709.21
Nice catch, I did not see that the dates on the report were quite old.
Ken, you say that you need more than 10k BTC for the NRE. Your chart shows that you currently have around 2.5k, so there are 7.5k more Bitcoins you need. However, the entire wall on BTCT would only provide 3957.34. How do you plan to deal with this discrepancy?
+1If you check the dates, the NRE funds are still not accounted for in this balance, those are just the funds from the 5M initial shares.
So, adding these, from the ~24th June to ~28th June:
.0025 Shares sold on Bifunder: 432,649
.0025 Shares sold on BTC-TC: 511,678
Total: 944,327
944323/4000000 = 0.23608075 = ~23.6 % funded
Which should account for +BTC2360.8075..0025 Shares sold on BTC-TC: 511,678
Total: 944,327
944323/4000000 = 0.23608075 = ~23.6 % funded
Btct.co shares are currently at 870,304, so that's more 358,626 shares sold (should even be more since some were tendered to BF) for +BTC896.565.
Current Total: ~BTC5709.21
I'm going to go ahead and make the argument that pre-order income should absolutely be used to fund the NRE. Right now, that money is sitting in some account collecting dust and losing value via inflation while Ken waits for alternative means to fund the NRE. Allowing pre-orders to fund the NRE would move all the timelines up so that individuals who actually pre-ordered will receive their product faster. If ActiveMining spends too much time not developing any product due to NRE funding issues, then hardware production will be delayed needlessly, which may prompt pre-orderers to ask for refunds.
This isnt without precedent, as both avalon and BFL have practiced this.
This isnt without precedent, as both avalon and BFL have practiced this.
Ken, you say that you need more than 10k BTC for the NRE. Your chart shows that you currently have around 2.5k, so there are 7.5k more Bitcoins you need. However, the entire wall on BTCT would only provide 3957.34. How do you plan to deal with this discrepancy?
+1From the ActiveMining thread:
Our Plans For Shares and the NRE:
When we reach our goal of funding for the NRE from any of the following sources (shares sales, machine sales, chip sales, private funding, mining, loans etc) with a bit of leeway for other expenses, I will make a post here in the thread and then take down the wall immediately.
When we reach our goal of funding for the NRE from any of the following sources (shares sales, machine sales, chip sales, private funding, mining, loans etc) with a bit of leeway for other expenses, I will make a post here in the thread and then take down the wall immediately.
Awesome, thanks!
Ken, you say that you need more than 10k BTC for the NRE. Your chart shows that you currently have around 2.5k, so there are 7.5k more Bitcoins you need. However, the entire wall on BTCT would only provide 3957.34. How do you plan to deal with this discrepancy?
+1 
Hi guys,
l tried to understand what is going on here in order to invest and/or buy hardware.
Can someone please summarize for me in plain English the thread?
What shares should I buy in order to help for the NRE?
EDIT:And where? I see two options..
When should we expect the hardware delivery, if everything goes acording to plan?
Thank you in advance!
l tried to understand what is going on here in order to invest and/or buy hardware.
Can someone please summarize for me in plain English the thread?
What shares should I buy in order to help for the NRE?
EDIT:And where? I see two options..
When should we expect the hardware delivery, if everything goes acording to plan?
Thank you in advance!
Go to BTCT's page, click on AMC and then hit "Details". That pretty much sums it all up.
Hi guys,
l tried to understand what is going on here in order to invest and/or buy hardware.
Can someone please summarize for me in plain English the thread?
What shares should I buy in order to help for the NRE?
When should we expect the hardware delivery, if everything goes acording to plan?
Thank you in advance!
l tried to understand what is going on here in order to invest and/or buy hardware.
Can someone please summarize for me in plain English the thread?
What shares should I buy in order to help for the NRE?
When should we expect the hardware delivery, if everything goes acording to plan?
Thank you in advance!
Buying the wall on www.btct.co will help since those funds go directly to kslaughter.
It should be explained why though. Ken would receive the funds on Bitfunder too, but people currently have asks which are slightly below .0025, so the issued share "wall" won't get touched for awhile.
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