the title is misleading
it should be
man jailed for accepting large amounts of FIAT, thats beyond personal trading amounts and did not declare himself as a FIAT money business nor follow fiat money regulations
alot of people think that just because half of a trade is bitcoin (other half being fiat) that some how fiat laws dont apply
if your going to handle fiat then expect to follow fiat laws
if you hate fiat laws then dont handle fiat.. instead trade bitcoin for bread, milk, baked beans, toilet paper.. and you will not be treated as a money business but as a retailer.. its as simple as that
Topic: Americans jail a 24 year old for selling bitcoins wthout asking for ID (Read 268 times)
March 08, 2018, 07:26:29 PM
March 08, 2018, 07:17:19 PM
This is totally sick. He has been doing the same that thousands of people have been doing for years everywhere, but the Land of the Free is sending him to prison because he didn't act as an state officer asking IDs to people. No comment...
March 08, 2018, 04:38:25 PM
Well, to tell the truth, local dealers are the best way to sell coins if you need smaller amounts of cash. With larger sums, it is best to go the right way and pay the tax. But it would be nice to see that more regulated until then people with less money will have to find their own way because they don't have tools like rich ones.
March 08, 2018, 03:54:37 PM
I thought a US judge ruled that bitcoin was a commodity...
Flour is a commodity. So you are saying if the store sells me some flour they need to ID me and ask me for my KYC information? I buy millions of dollars worth of copper for the company I work for every day, nobody asks me for KYC info.
The US government is going completely insane worrying about something they will come to realize they cannot stop.
Don't get me wrong, this guy should have reported his sales to the IRS. But I think the over-zealousness here on behalf of law enforcement is a problem.
Flour is a commodity. So you are saying if the store sells me some flour they need to ID me and ask me for my KYC information? I buy millions of dollars worth of copper for the company I work for every day, nobody asks me for KYC info.
The US government is going completely insane worrying about something they will come to realize they cannot stop.
Don't get me wrong, this guy should have reported his sales to the IRS. But I think the over-zealousness here on behalf of law enforcement is a problem.
This is a really good point, they categorize it as property (commodity) but then other agencies pretty much treat it as a currency. But this type of stuff isn't so new, Charlie Shrem got hit with the same kind of deal, facilitating money laundering. Atleast that's what I remember reading about his situation with bit instant.
March 08, 2018, 12:26:03 PM
We live in a world where people can be jailed for not checking somebody's ID. They can be jailed for trying to make a little bit of money. ONE YEAR in jail. A FUCKING YEAR? This is an outrage, and the community should not stand for it. Taxation is legalized theft, or forced monopolization.
March 08, 2018, 12:24:26 PM
Yeah by selling bitcoins to someone for cash, if that cash is from illegal activities, you are money laundering which is a crime. I would not recommend selling bitcoin to people you don't know.
March 08, 2018, 12:19:43 PM
I thought a US judge ruled that bitcoin was a commodity...
Flour is a commodity. So you are saying if the store sells me some flour they need to ID me and ask me for my KYC information? I buy millions of dollars worth of copper for the company I work for every day, nobody asks me for KYC info.
The US government is going completely insane worrying about something they will come to realize they cannot stop.
Don't get me wrong, this guy should have reported his sales to the IRS. But I think the over-zealousness here on behalf of law enforcement is a problem.
Flour is a commodity. So you are saying if the store sells me some flour they need to ID me and ask me for my KYC information? I buy millions of dollars worth of copper for the company I work for every day, nobody asks me for KYC info.
The US government is going completely insane worrying about something they will come to realize they cannot stop.
Don't get me wrong, this guy should have reported his sales to the IRS. But I think the over-zealousness here on behalf of law enforcement is a problem.
March 08, 2018, 12:07:08 PM
If you thought this was bad read the case of Jason Klein, middle aged family man nearly sentenced to years in prison just for selling bitcoin.
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
It sounds really quite ridiculous, I like how it says they neglected to comment on why he was targeted. I do feel like there's probably more behind the story than they're letting on.
It mentions how they said they were going to use the bitcoin to buy drugs. I don't know exactly but I don't see how that's any slight on his part. If for example you have an employee and you pay them and they go out and buy drugs that's not your fault.
It is pretty ridiculous....but it's just open season on anyone that's involved in any kind of bitcoin transaction that may be tied to money laundering.
But where is the victim ya know?
Well if they are actually involved in money laundering then there are implied victims. Money is not laundered for no reason and a lot of it will be crime related. It's just how much blame can you actually attribute of that to the guy who's facilitating it? If not him then it would be someone else.
March 07, 2018, 05:59:09 PM
If you thought this was bad read the case of Jason Klein, middle aged family man nearly sentenced to years in prison just for selling bitcoin.
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
It sounds really quite ridiculous, I like how it says they neglected to comment on why he was targeted. I do feel like there's probably more behind the story than they're letting on.
It mentions how they said they were going to use the bitcoin to buy drugs. I don't know exactly but I don't see how that's any slight on his part. If for example you have an employee and you pay them and they go out and buy drugs that's not your fault.
It is pretty ridiculous....but it's just open season on anyone that's involved in any kind of bitcoin transaction that may be tied to money laundering.
But where is the victim ya know?
March 07, 2018, 02:23:49 PM
If you thought this was bad read the case of Jason Klein, middle aged family man nearly sentenced to years in prison just for selling bitcoin.
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
It sounds really quite ridiculous, I like how it says they neglected to comment on why he was targeted. I do feel like there's probably more behind the story than they're letting on.
It mentions how they said they were going to use the bitcoin to buy drugs. I don't know exactly but I don't see how that's any slight on his part. If for example you have an employee and you pay them and they go out and buy drugs that's not your fault.
March 06, 2018, 11:21:36 AM
If you thought this was bad read the case of Jason Klein, middle aged family man nearly sentenced to years in prison just for selling bitcoin.
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
http://time.com/5161663/bitcoin-sting-jason-klein-crypto-irs-money-transmitter/
It goes to show the lack of understanding by LE and the clandestine tactics they use to basically label someone a criminal.
TLDR- He ended up getting a reduced sentence to probation after they had to spend all their money and get the whole town to vouch for him....it's sad really. I am embarrassed to be American anymore
March 06, 2018, 11:12:48 AM
A little more on the story ... the guy was previously convicted of heroin trafficking, so he was likely already on the feds radar after getting released from prison.
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/bitcoin-crime-nets-pa-heroin-trafficker-prison-time-20180228.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/bitcoin-crime-nets-pa-heroin-trafficker-prison-time-20180228.html
Exactly, it wasn't like a regular person was trading bitcoins in private, this dude was a criminal king pin and they wanted to lock him up for as long as possible. Only worry if you're on their radar
I don't know if he was a criminal king pin -- he might just be some dope that sucks at staying out of prison -- but I have to wonder if his new business was discovered because he was still involved in the heroin trade. But This time, as a money launderer instead of a smuggler.
It is quite possible that undercover agents are trying to make contact with under the table bitcoin dealers because they believe it will lead them to all sorts of illegal trades. Then they found this guy, ran his record, found he was on probation, and decided to hit him up with some rarely used charges to send him back to prison. The prosecutor did say these kinds of cases are rare.
'Criminal king pin'
What you said seems quite likely, it does change things slightly if he has prior convictions and makes the sentence a little more understandable as given his background it's more likely he was acting with bad intentions instead of just being misinformed, although still harsh in my opinion.
That's actually quite a good strategy, although by now I would think most illegal activities have transitioned to privacy based cryptocurrencies instead of using bitcoin. Bitcoin is actually pretty bad from a criminals point of view because everything can be evidenced with the blockchain.
March 05, 2018, 02:59:48 PM
unfortunately this is a bit embarrassing but if we consider the regulations about US citizens where they can`t participate in ICO`s and some exchanges it clarifies the situation a bit.
March 05, 2018, 02:52:06 PM
That is just a recommendation, it may or may not be in effect later but currently its unregulated.
But based on that logic, the people that recommended it are Pakistani.
So, using this stupid generalization all the Pakistani are against bitcoin.
I don't see why are you so offended, yeah the guys who sent him in jail are Americans, whats the problem there ?
Generalization, that is my problem!!!
Have you sold payments in signature campaigns in exchanges? what happened? me and a lot of other people are scared to do that, even if we obtained the coins legally. They can decide that it's not clear where the money came from, then you would be screwed. Unfortunately im starting to feel like I will never be able to buy anything of substance with bitcoin, because the government will always know if you buy real estate etc with it. Even if my coins are legally, im scared that they will not like the evidence presented.
There are a lot of threads about this.This one is from my post history:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/has-anyone-sold-btc-won-here-in-sig-campaigns-how-does-tax-work-2671454
Nobody gives a damn about your coins while you have them in your wallet.
What they are interested is what you do when you convert them to fiat.
If you just sell them for $ and you don't pay taxes for it then you are in trouble.
Till last year I din't bother with it because I've only sold small sums <100$ times each but for the last year I've filled my tax form up.
Both for crypto and betting gains.
When you gain coins from signatures campaigns is like working for somebody, if you earn money from it you're liable for taxes, it's the same stuff.
March 05, 2018, 02:27:05 PM
I have been saying for a while that localbitcoins it's not safe... it never was, it never will be. You don't know who is on the other end. Who knows if a government fucktard is trying to ruin your life because you need a couple hundred bucks worth of cash to pay the bills and he is on the other end delivering the money... that is why I i've never sold any bitcoins.
People are better off buying and selling on the exchanges, because that way the responsibility to check ID lies with the exchanges and not you.
Even with exchanges, you don't know what the hell to expect.
Have you sold payments in signature campaigns in exchanges? what happened? me and a lot of other people are scared to do that, even if we obtained the coins legally. They can decide that it's not clear where the money came from, then you would be screwed. Unfortunately im starting to feel like I will never be able to buy anything of substance with bitcoin, because the government will always know if you buy real estate etc with it. Even if my coins are legally, im scared that they will not like the evidence presented.
People are better off buying and selling on the exchanges, because that way the responsibility to check ID lies with the exchanges and not you.
Even with exchanges, you don't know what the hell to expect.
Have you sold payments in signature campaigns in exchanges? what happened? me and a lot of other people are scared to do that, even if we obtained the coins legally. They can decide that it's not clear where the money came from, then you would be screwed. Unfortunately im starting to feel like I will never be able to buy anything of substance with bitcoin, because the government will always know if you buy real estate etc with it. Even if my coins are legally, im scared that they will not like the evidence presented.
March 05, 2018, 02:19:38 PM
A little more on the story ... the guy was previously convicted of heroin trafficking, so he was likely already on the feds radar after getting released from prison.
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/bitcoin-crime-nets-pa-heroin-trafficker-prison-time-20180228.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/bitcoin-crime-nets-pa-heroin-trafficker-prison-time-20180228.html
Exactly, it wasn't like a regular person was trading bitcoins in private, this dude was a criminal king pin and they wanted to lock him up for as long as possible. Only worry if you're on their radar
I don't know if he was a criminal king pin -- he might just be some dope that sucks at staying out of prison -- but I have to wonder if his new business was discovered because he was still involved in the heroin trade. But This time, as a money launderer instead of a smuggler.
It is quite possible that undercover agents are trying to make contact with under the table bitcoin dealers because they believe it will lead them to all sorts of illegal trades. Then they found this guy, ran his record, found he was on probation, and decided to hit him up with some rarely used charges to send him back to prison. The prosecutor did say these kinds of cases are rare.
March 05, 2018, 02:09:44 PM
Calm down! The Department of Homeland Security is a national agency, is it not? This isn't to do with local police at Chester County.
You realized what piece of garbage that article is?And you even made it worse!!!!
You used by yourself the word "americans" like it the fault of all americans and all americans are to blame for.
If you knew if Homeland Security was behind this why didn't you use this for title:
Quote
Department of Homeland Security arrests 24yo for conducting an unlicensed money transmitting business
And back to the article, I love how FaletiAbiodun, the author, a guy from Pakistan is painting things:
Quote
US law agencies can celebrate another success in their tireless crusade to stop ‘unlicensed money transmitting’ in the land of the free
Yeah, hilarious. Angry he didn't get a visa?
this may be hard for you to understand but not everyone wants to live in America. Calling out Pakistan guy ? I think he is in a better place regarding crypto than you.
Anyways as for article, I think government agencies got their priorities wrong. Lately ICOs banned Americans from participating because of regulations but what about millions of dollars still unregulated ? And they are devoting resources and manpower to catch a guy because of 40k USD
Exactly my thoughts. $40K is peanuts are compare to those drug dealers in America, and yet they call this a victory?
And they portray the kid as criminal kingpin? How do American categorized criminals? I'm at a total lost.
My point is that this article shouldn't be exaggerated. The kid was caught and now suffer the consequences of his deeds. But please stop sensationalizing. Homeland Security should target those whales.
March 05, 2018, 02:04:01 PM
A little more on the story ... the guy was previously convicted of heroin trafficking, so he was likely already on the feds radar after getting released from prison.
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/bitcoin-crime-nets-pa-heroin-trafficker-prison-time-20180228.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/bitcoin-crime-nets-pa-heroin-trafficker-prison-time-20180228.html
Exactly, it wasn't like a regular person was trading bitcoins in private, this dude was a criminal king pin and they wanted to lock him up for as long as possible. Only worry if you're on their radar
March 05, 2018, 02:02:10 PM
This is what happen if someones breaking the law,we have a rules in every country that must be obeyed and if you fill that its not for for you,so better leave that country and find another one that will gives you pleasure..thats the only way you hide from the police chasing.for the man in jail,you know how its bad,but you continues.so you deserve that cold bars
The problem is that this guy went there and flip the money by buying and selling btc for commission from multiple people. You have to be registered no matter where you are to be able to do such things. Many people take everything without looking into the rules written by the law. If you earn money and don't report it plus you are not following all procedures you will get caught eventually if you continue to do what you do. There were cases in the past when some people did such things on localbitcoins and got caught. It is their fault for not doing everything right, law is there to obey it...
March 05, 2018, 01:58:54 PM
I am absolutely 100% sure that there are a lot of people that buy and sell bitcoin without asking ID.The important thing is the quantity that is traded, because it is not the same to sell 0.1 bitcoin or 10 bitcoins. Police dont check little sellers because there are hundreds of them and it will be a waste of time. When it comes to big sellers the police is more aware of them because they dont pay fees and it could be considered money laundering since the quantity get to millions of dollars.
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