Topic: Has anyone sold BTC won here in sig campaigns? how does tax work? (Read 623 times)

Like I said before, this is easier said than done.

Bitcoin is too new, earning income with Bitcoin is too new. There are no precedents that I know off. Show me someone cashing out $10,000+ worth of signature campaign gains, and explain me how to the process went (and say where are you from too). Otherwise you are taking a risk because you don't know what will happen. You don't know what they will ask for.

And don't get me started if you mixed of your coins, or you lost some trading history because stupid exchanges are now dead (Cryptsy, Mintpal, etc)

cashouting huge amount of money everyday will become suspecios. but if you can prove where your money came from then nothing to worries. the government cannot forced you to pay some tax from the money you earn in signature campaign they are concern only about money laundering. if your country is open minded about btc then prove your hardwork so that you can freely buy property without fear.

Yep it only gets even more ridiculous when you factor in the forks.

We have money that we don't even know that we own, because there are forks all the time, so if you have 10 BTC, you have also 10 BTC worth of whatever other new fork of the hour that someone did and you are supposed to report these too, and reporting your actual BTC is already a problem if like I said before you have some mixed inputs in a bitcoin mixer from years ago when you did some testing, and you have some missing trading history due dead exchanges... it becomes a nightmare that keeps growing as your transaction history is the same on another different forked blockchain which would need you to move all of your BTC into other BTC addresses before accessing the forked coins.. it gievs me an hadache to even begin to think about ordering all of my transactions, forks, altcoin tradings... it's hell really. Fuck, I just wanted to buy a god damn house in a couple of years, looks like im going to have problems with it. We'll see what I can do about it. Im ok with paying taxes, but im not ok with the government stealing half of my earnings because they decide there isn't enough proof that I obtained them posting in here, trading altcoins in Mintpal or selling drugs, it's not fair, I worked hard for all of my coins and I did it all legal, I want my house.

Which country are you from? Huge amount is really questionable to cashout especially if the exchange are regulated. Just provide the necessary proof that you accumulate your money through sig campaigns where you worked for years and not because you are connected in illegal activities.

I didnt encounter any problem converting my bitcoins to fiat directly to my bank account, I think it depends on the place where you are on how they deal in situation with high transactions.

What is the deal with airdrops and tax? Presumably you have to move or trade them to be liable for tax.

I don't see how anyone can be liable for them unless they're provably utilising them somehow. And there are now so many I assume the vast majority won't ever touch them.

If I got some tax demand for a fork I hadn't redeemed I'd post them the old private keys and tell 'em to fucking sell it themselves. 

And how would they do it according to you. For instance the government can say they require all people to pay taxes on porn and declare how much porn they're watching a day. It would be as ridiculous as asking us to declare our cryptocurrency holdings, reveal all our addresses and pay yearly tax on coins that are in our wallets,
It would not only be a futile attempt, but also an enormous waste of resources on their part. And of course it would be against the law in most places because you can't require people to pay taxes on their whole wealth. If you have gold or jewelry you aren't obliged to calculate its value every year and pay a tax if it happened to gain some.

Yes our local governments did not forced us to pay taxes on our bitcoin have from signature campaign in our country because they have nothing to do with crypto currencies. Besides now some banks of other countries and governments recognized bitcoin as a digital currencies that one of the assest of source of income. For me when you pay taxes when are going to cash out your bitcoin and covert to fiat when you cash out there's have a transaction fees on remittances or banks that's our taxes i think.

It seems to me that you're oversimplifying the situation. The government is not interested in our taxes. They are concerned about the level of freedom which allows for the use of cryptocurrencies. I am sure that they have set for themselves the task of a complete ban on the use of cryptocurrencies. Paying taxes is only a formal reason to fight with cryptocurrency. Very soon we will understand but will be late. Now need to create the conditions for the cryptocurrency can be used directly without exchanging for Fiat.

Whether you like it or not, the government want you to pay taxes on your signature campaign earnings and airdrop tokens. With each passing day, they are eliminating loopholes which can be used by crypto-users to avoid taxes. Very soon, we will be required to give details of our crypto-holdings. If we hide our holdings, then they will proceed with tax evasion charges.

This is also the area I'm looking at OP's worries - huge sum of fiat money transferred into an account, especially where it is above the stipulated amount for individual account.

Meanwhile on the other hand, I think to convince the authority about where the source of the money came from wouldn't be a difficult task, the authorities have a way of verifying facts because this forum is legitimate and some authorities are away of it themselves.

The point however is, if huge money transferred to an "unmerited" account as regarding specified amount for an individual account, it would then raise the curiosity of the government.

Well, I've never sold any but I have spent plenty. Some of this was experimentally mixed just like you. Some of it was from sig campaign earnings from Bitmixer which may well be looked deeply down upon some day.

All of it, many thousands in total, went through Bitpay. They happily took it and I got plenty of tat in return for it. Go drip buy some gold or some race horses. No one is going to harm or kill you. Any vaguely clued up accountant will be able to join any dots that are questioned. There should be enough scraps out there to satisfy anyone.

I have learned that I still haven't seen anyone cash out a relevant amount of signature earnings (let's say above $10000) at least in a place that's relevant to me, so I will remain skeptic and just hold it and see how I go about it in the future.

Im still worried about the mixed coins that I did mix to test a mixer out years ago (years ago 1 BTC was worth like $200) and so Im worried about cashing these out then not being able to explain where they came from and getting it counterfeited. Same goes for BTW that I withdrew from dead exchanges or lacking information of the trades in any way. Im not sure if I will ever be able to cash out any of these... so I may have to stick with signature earnings and other coins in which I can clearly trace the origin, otherwise it's extremely risky to cash them out because you don't know what the hell to expect.

It will be different in some countries which have regulated cryptocurrency and applied tax on capital gains such as the US.
But most countries do not regulate cryptocurrency yet, so people can cash out without any question regarding their income.
I have converted bitcoin into fiat currency a couple of time through a local exchange in my country and it works just fine.
But the government has tried to learn about cryptocurrency in order to regulate or ban it, this will be a disaster for bitcoiners.

So this thread has been ongoing for quite some time now. What have you learnt and what are you going to do? You seem to be locked into a particular spiral of doom and nothing anyone says is talking you out of it.

Please learn to read, I said anyone putting any amount of money in a bank without a clear way to prove this money was obtained legally is a criminal, and by default, a government will think you are a criminal unless you can prove the former. Notice how I have pointed at several cases of accounts being frozen when they see they came from exchanges, it's because you have to prove that this money is legit.

And yes, cash transactions (of any relevance) are illegal, increasingly in more and more places. And no, you cannot put $200,000 worth of cash in a bank and don't expect problems unless you can prove the origin is legit clearly, same goes for a bitcoin deposit and so on, pretending the opposite is true is actual delusion.


This may be the case in your country (which is pretty weird, because makes money laundering trivial), but at least here you can't pretend to get any amounts of money in bitcoin you want into your bank account claiming that they are from a dead exchange's gains. Otherwise someone could sell a couple millions worth of drugs on the darknet, mix them, cash them out into your bank account and claim they are from a dead exchange's gains.

The burden of proof is on you (which is why I said "government treats you as a criminal by default"), and I doubt "it's from a dead exchange's gains" will cut it, even if it's the truth, which is why im worried about cashing out these coins, or coins which I mixed back in the day to text a mixer. Now there aren't clear traces about these coins.

Like I said, your claim is that cash transactions are essentially illegal and that blockchain transaction history is inadequate (even though Bitcoin and altcoins are obviously used to transfer immense value). You should stop using cryptocurrency if that's your position. I'd like to see the statutes in question because you keep making these claims.

If you think that everyone "in Europe" is being treated as a criminal for cashing out of Bitcoin, then you are delusional.


Actually, you are completely wrong. Again, I have been doing this for years and I've always consulted competent tax advisors. Qualified accountants, attorneys and the IRS agree that this is how table game income works in the US:


Says who? Show me the law.

And if that's really the case, then you should read between the lines. The fact that Mintpal (for example) has no records to refute you only works in your favor. It's clear as day that billions of dollars are transacted in cryptocurrencies every day. It's also clear as day that the vast majority of these transactions are not recorded in a way that can be transmitted to tax authorities systematically.

You can either work within that context and pay the taxes you owe, or you can keep complaining about how there is no systematic government-whitelisted approach to doing that. Your choice.


That's unfortunate but it's your fault and just indicates that you were never serious about paying your taxes to begin with. As I said, I paid all taxes owed on Mintpal and Cryptsy several years ago.

Fortunately for you, the fact that Mintpal and Cryptsy don't exist to refute your trading records actually works in your favor. There is functionally no difference between Mintpal trading records you fabricate today, and my real trading records from 4 years ago. But you continue to irrationally go on about "every satoshi movement inside exchanges" as if tax authorities could ever determine the truth.


There are no precedents. You might wait years for clarity. This is like the meme of the skeleton waiting for the Bitcoin price to dip.

The cautious move was to consult an accountant/lawyer years ago -- and certainly when tax liabilities for the previous trading year arose. Just because cryptocurrencies are a new asset class doesn't mean you could assume that taxes didn't apply like other assets.


That means you you didn't treat it as ordinary income, which usually triggers tax liabilities in the tax year you earned it. The honest thing to do is amend your previous tax returns to declare your income from previous years. Alternatively, there are a host of options, but none of them are technically honest nor legal. And since you believe that every satoshi must be accounted for including links to exchanges with KYC, it sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place.

if you really want to deposit in the bank or buy a property using the money you get here in the forum. do not mention it in the  bank that the money you are buying for is came from bitcoin because im pretty much sure that your account will be frozen if you do that.

Luckily I can see my bitcoin earning without paying the tax as my government still forbid bitcoin but they still not make any legal policy yet !
In other side, I feel that bitcoin doesn't need to apply tax because it will broke it's decentralized itself , right

Yeah, but it's pretty obvious that the state is not going to care about what you think about it. You are right that since we can't even pay taxes, it shouldn't be counted as income, shouldn't be any different from virtual tokens in Second Life or poker tokens, but apparently they don't care and you must pay taxes as income, so signature campaigns for instance a repeated activity in time which would qualify as income tax, since we have not declared anything for years, my fear is that once you do you will get a big fine.

If someone has cashed out years of signature earnings (which are now worth a lot due BTC going $10k+) then talk about your experience and say exactly what info they requested and where are you from, also WHEN did you cash out and how much, it's important because I believe back then they would have cared less about details.

In order to work well together then establish the Credibility with the Bank
Strong KYC during the event generates tokens will make it easier to work with banks and follow AML rules. Voluntary compliance in token sales seems to give a project a stamp of legitimacy. Many potential regulators seem to be open to token sales. preferably transparent especially when dealing with potential regulators. Since regulatory agencies in many large markets (eg, US, Canada and UK) are leaning to classify ICO as a security, ICO should be more proactive and adhere to AML / KYC guidelines to operate in this market.
Any business that wants to succeed in the long run, and not just take the money and run it, needs to understand the existing legal framework and ensure compliance. Legitimacy can be determined by how well the initial crypto assets and governance contracts are designed and protected.