Topic: Amit Bhardwaj, the Gainbitcoin thief and liar. - page 9. (Read 63766 times)

The "assumptions" you mention were based on industry standard or prices prevailing at the time of calculation.


You can indeed postulate that Gain may have some mystery super mining equipment that gives them an edge over the competiton, despite there being no evidence or even claim of such.


If investment is made in Bitcoin and returns paid in Bitcoin then the dollar exchange rate is irrelevant apart from converting costs incurred in fiat, which is what I used it for.
Bitcoin mined ∝ hashrate, end of story.


At that time, S7's were the most efficient miner available.
Their latter video of the Chinese farm contained clear images of S9's and subsequent calculations were based on Antminer's own specs for that machine.


Electricity costs money, but even using zero as a price the promised return is unattainable.
Gain make no charge for maintenance costs, who pays for that?
Throughout, I have used best possible scenario in Gain's favor for my "assumptions".


What makes a Ponzi is the use of later investors' money to pay promised returns to earlier ones.
If the only real business activity revenue into a scheme falls short of matching existing payment commitments, then every day that goes by increases unserviceable future debt obligations.
Based on these "assumptions", this description matches Gainbitcoin's business model.

I have no personal axe to grind with Mr. Bhardwaj or anyone else, but to lift a whole section from another website and claim it to be an actual representation of one's own business activity, when it emphatically is not, is completely unacceptable when soliciting investment.
The irony of Gain stealing Hashocean's fraudulent lies and claiming them as their own is not lost on me.

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A refund guarantee is a refund guarantee, full stop.
If their mining is as profitable as they say, the only reason not to refund is because they have no money to do so. Where is it?


This is why MLM is so toxic for those who in invest in the core business, as opposed to those who treat that as simply "key" money to unlock entry to the commission aspect and make more money selling the concept than the concept itself makes.

Yes, someone's properly read the answers and even agrees with some of the statements The only thing I don't get is how it is possible to use the word "fraudelent" without any facts?


1st assumption
Well, right now one BTC $832 which is $150 more than that or 22%. 10 days ago one BTC was $1051 which is 50% more than that number and year ago the price was $377 which is twice as less. From my
point of view it is hard to predict anything with such volatility or build any solid conclusions. 



2nd assumption



3rd assumption

Again, I know nothing about this stuff but when one sees serious accusations it would be a good idea to see something more than calculations based on assumptions some of which are questionable. I mean,
every business has its own secrets that give his owners a competitive advantage. It is not payout size that make a business ponzi but the way its finances get managed.

Just my 2cents

Kindly check following thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/an-easy-way-to-understand-bitcoin-420976


Bitcoin mining:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXerV3f5jN8

Without being disrespectful, following link is also helpful:

https://www.google.co.in/search?client=opera&q=bitcoin+mining&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Somehow Your post is irrelevant to this post and it belongs to the beginner section of forum. 

What is bitcoin mining anyway??

If Some people have read/followed this thread carefully from beginning(since first post) would not have concluded that neither side has proved their point.  If and only if someone properly reads and comprehends what is explained on the first page(and  later part ) of this thread then only would understand that tmfp has proved his point by using data from gainbtc site (NOT any assumption) and calculated that data using coinwarz (a profit calculator widely used in "real" bitcoin-mining world).  Only assumption in that calculation was cost of electricity (lowest possible rates taken into account) and miners being used(S7 was considered).  Results do not match profit claims by gainbtc.

It is straight forward calculation. Those who have "faith" in gainbtc have not been able to negate "any" points raised against it. Every time raising point about "their payouts  are regular"  is only proving that their incoming cash/bitcoin flow is currently higher than outgoing bitcoin flow.

It would be great to understand how gainbtc is making huge legitimate profit which is not there in first place.  Nobody is stopping anyone from investing in gainbtc, as it is every individuals personal decision to make.

Nothing in this world could change the mind which has gone into denial mode.


On the side note of proving a point:


We are still waiting for details of that "huge research".

Sorry but nobody has proved either side so far, all calculations are based on assumptions, not on facts. While they can be correct, we don't really know how much bitcoin this website mines, how much its obligations are and what the real business model is. One can just assume and I wouldn't call anyone's activity ' fraudulent' just because it seems so to me.

They have members, members get paid, no complaints - these are facts. But I agree, this may mean anything.

I'm a happy customer of Gainbitcoin, never had any problems with them.

Those who want to invest in gainbtc are free to do so. Nobody from this forum is stopping anyone to do so.  Some people are missing the one of main point of this thread, that is how profit making model of gainbtc is fraudulent. If anyone could prove their plans are in fact earning profit through bitcoin mining then we'll be happy to lean those new points.

Anyone trying to prove gainbtc with "so far received steady income" type claims are undoubtedly spamming this thread. Because that point has already been discussed and negated as well.

If someone wants to prove authenticity of those plans make sure to come with mathematical proof (which can be verified on coinwarz or any other trusted calculator)

Ok, So I invested .1 BTC last month and raised a refund for it and got it back successfully. I am going to invest .5 BTC*2 out of which I will enter into system with .5 and will raise a refund for another .5 BTC. Assuming they only return small amount lets see what happen with .5 BTC.

Another thing is that I have met few people on the web and spoke on the phone who are getting payouts since almost 15 months now and everything is fine and regular for them and they don't have any chain or anything under them. One of the person invested only 1 BTC and another invested around 3-4 BTC's and things are good for them.

I have takes the risk of a small amount, lets see what happens next. At least I will understand how it actually works and even if I calculate things more incoming and less outgoing basis I guess this thing is gonna run long long way.

Will share more details soon.

It is understandable if one of feature from a website stops working. It happens with most of websites at certain point.



However giving crappy reason for not able to process a request does not make any sense. Now who knows how long will it take for price to a stable value?
what if price remains unstable high  and it is also end of first month before user could request for refund?

To solve customer tickets/issues this gainbtc *might* heavily relies on "contact your leader/team lead and so on" model.  Because people in upper level of pyramid mentions that contact your TL and if issue remains then they will look into it and contact their senior. In turn these people will contact directly Mr. Amit to solve the issue.  One thing for sure, if one contact TL or higher leader they have capacity to issue resolved quickly. It does not indicate a dedicate team working on solving issues.
Same working model is observed in many online schemes/scams/revshares programs which rely on facebook group to resolve the issue instead of having a working and dedicated ticketing system. Even if they have ticket system, responses are less frequent.

I contacted a friend of mine who is pursuing law he suggested that we should talk to some NGO's or trusts about this possible scam as they have proper resources and can handle such cases more easily.

As per recent interview of Mr. Amit B,  gainbitcoin is not registered in India so far. They have or are trying to register the company in India under MLM.   Link of short Interview :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQN2y3NRPJg

I'm not sure whether SEBI would have authority to act against gainbitcoin or for that matter company which is not registered in India and doing business internationally.

Thank you for this insightful post. This has saved my father from fraud.
My father was going to invest huge sum in this scheme due to demonetisation.
This is being done on a huge scale in delhi as my father has attended a seminar, he was referred into this scheme by his friend who has already invested millions of rupees in this scheme. And this has become popular between property dealers.
We should complain to Sebi or any other regulatory for the inconsistencies before this become a very huge crisis.

- As conclusion of your huge research was positive towards legitimacy of gainbtc business, it means research must have found the answer to the grave mathematical inconsistencies in their hashrate plan (this has been explained in detail initial part of this thread). Kindly explain how gainbtc is able to share amount of profit which is not possible through mining bitcoin pool in the first place.
- Members who have doubts about gainbtc will be very happy if details of that "huge" research is shared here instead of half line conclusion?  It will be very helpful to know what kind of data/information helped in reaching to that conclusion. Other members who are finding loopholes in the business model of gainbitcoin, will get answers on legitimacy of gainbtc.



- Hmm, so as per above quote, Amit might be behind HashOcean scam and those looted bitcoins are now being invested in gainbitcoin. With what logic Mr. Amit will not do the same with gainbtc? That  is he may run the scam for two to four year and then disappear with all bitcoins. What has exactly changed this time that has made him not to scam via gainbtc (If and only if he was really behind Hashocean)?

- Recently some members who attended the meeting with Mr. Amit B have shared details of that meetings, the specific point which caught attention is interesting to share here. In that meeting while answering questions about business and security on whether gainbtc will pay assured amount to the investor, this information was given: In order to assure payment to the investors Mr. Amit has created back up of all the payment for next 25 years.That is payable amount to customer for next 25 years is safely kept aside. So even if Mr. Amit stops mining bitcoins any time in future, customers/investors will keep getting paid.  Not only that Mr. Amit has created back up money of  this back up amount. So there is two hundred per cent assurance from gainbtc about payment. Sounds great, Right!!  
Next piece of information is how big is their business and how honestly they are processing payments. gainbitcoin is paying some 20 to 35 odd customer around 1 crore per month. and some 20000 to 30000 customers/investors who are getting in lakhs of rupees per month.
 ------
- When I cross checked above details on payment following details came up:
   20 to 30 people getting 1 crore per month, means at least 20 crore per month (i'm chosing lowest number).
        This results per year  =    20 x 10000000 x 12(months) = 2400000000  = two billion, four hundred million Rupees

  20000 to 30000 thousand people earning in lakhs. Let's take lowest of member number and lowest of lakh (one lakh).
         This results per month  = 20000 x 100000 = 2000000000      =  Two billion per month
          This results per year   =  20000 x 100000 x 12  =  24000000000      =   twenty-four billion,

 If we sum up above two levels of associate income per year we get    
               24000000000 +  2400000000  =  26400000000  twenty-six billion, four hundred million rupees

  At this stage, gainbtc is paying 20020 associate somewhat  twenty-six billion, four hundred million Rupees.   As per claim/information shared, payable amount for coming 25 years has a backup. That means First back up money set aside is:
              26400000000 x 25 = 660000000000   Six Hundred Sixty Billion Rupees

 Then there is back up of first back up stored, so that gives
              660000000000 x 25 = 16.5 x 10^12 = 16.5 Trillion Rupees

16.5 Trillion Rupees has been kept aside for payment  by Mr. Amit. And remember this calculation is for only top two levels of associates. Those who are earning in thousands/hundreds have not been included.
Now very obvious question is, has gainbtc or Mr. Amit mined  16.5 Trillion Rupees worth bitcoins already that they could keep that much amount in back up?
Till this date, People who attended these seminars have not bothered to think on. Instead these guys were spreading that information like Gospel Truth.

Who are we kidding here, 16.5 Trillion rupees kept as backup for payment!!

Why are we ignoring mathematics of profit?

Those who want to invest/waste their bitcoins in gainbtc are free to do so. However promoting it without any proof about its profit-making model is not good.
Is their payments so far regular? Yes, and they will remain regular till incoming money is greater than outgoing money.    
How long will it take to reach the point where payment may become problem?  not very soon (at least not in weeks or some months). It is due to their business model practice.  Normally MLM scam needs more peoples under a person. Here one person can create tens/hundreds/thousands/unlimited  dummy account by himself and invest all by himself. Without pulling other person.
How this dummy account work?
While creating 1st new account mention username/email/passwd like user1/[email protected].  Next window will appear which will ask same information, Fill out it and account is created.
Lets say user1 want to create dummy account now. procedure is:
Click on registration again and mention name  user1_2/[email protected]/passwd. Next window will appear in which you mention user1_2/[email protected]/passwd.   Notice how next window has email id same user1. Your dummy account is created. You even dont have to own email account which you mention in first registration window.  With this way, by mentioning any number of email in first window and old email id on second window dummy accounts are created.
Interesting point is gainbtc investors who want you to invest in gainbtc will "teach" you all these tricks to get more so called benefit.
That is why this program may run for some extended time. This is my estimate based on their working model.

So, according to you, Amit Bhardwaj is the person behind HashOcean and GBMiners was started from the funds that he scammed from HashOcean's users?

And there's a difference in being famous and being reputed. (Just saying)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hashocean-disapeared-and-scammed-700000-users-1527550

https://cointelegraph.com/news/hashocean-scam-victims-sign-petitions-to-fbi-hackers-to-reveal-more-scams


Sure, I'll take your word for it.


So, they started a centralized institution to hold a decentralized currency? Wow.
Opening a Bitcoin Bank is the exact opposite of what Bitcoin is all about. How the hell does it sound good to you?


I didn't know that people had invested 59413.6 BTC in the last 3 months. (Damn!)
Thank you for the information.

This sounds good. Their Coinbank wallet works fine and good to see that they are going to use it like a bank and fixed deposits. And about the copy paste website data from Hashocean also sounds logical to me.

I am also doing some researches on GB by entering into their system to know how it actually works. Will share some inputs soon.

Check out this new article from Amit:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hello-india-my-vision-2017-bitcoin-blockchain-amit-bhardwaj

Ok I have done a huge research and now I'm sure about the business.
I have had meeting with one guy who met Amit personally (I have photo with him and Amit Bhardwaj on a yacht in Dubai). He is also one of the guy on the recordings in GainBitcoin mining pools in China, on Youtube.

Everything seems to be cool - the connection with HashOcean (copied content from HO site) is true and Amit said that he just copied some info not to waste time and that's the reason they will change their website at 10 January probably.

I think this could be a true story but even real seemed to me that Amit did HashOcean which gave him the money to start the real bitcoin mining pool, and now we have GainBitcoin whos owner is a famous guy in Bitcoin world.

People started making landing pages
http://theadsteam.getleads.pl/vspelegant2-20826/

It will be a little bit noisy because of this program - all people over the Poland will start to promote it soon.

Guys, could you help me with my research on Amit Bhardwaj and his Satoshi Studios project?
When I will be done with it I will be definitely sure about Gainbitcoin. I will post here all my informations that I have gained, but I need a hand with my research:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17335926

Thanks!

HashOcean already scam many people.If this guy are relly related to HashOcean and come back again with clone then definitely this site also scam again.All cloud mining sites are ponzi.I invest bitcoin many site but at the end I cant even get back my investment.I Just can tell you keep away from Cloud Mining.withdraw your investment soon otherwise you have big chance to lose your investment.I was try cex.io well known site but lose my investment.you try mine with AntMiner that would be best decision.you can buy new AntMiner S9 its now popular.the real mining is rig mining.you can try the real rig mining thats my suggestion