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Topic: AML/KYC Explained - page 14. (Read 508275 times)

newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 3
March 24, 2018, 04:33:32 AM
Here a reality check: KYC/AML is not your friend, it will not help you from getting scammed, it will not help you to have more trust in the people you are working with in cryptroland. It's one and only purpose (in this context) is to control the on and off ramp in exchanges that allow you to convert crypto to fiat and back again. To be able to track your financial activities and coerce you into revealing private information about profit and loss in exchanges around the world.

However, there is very little actual policy that has been written into law, anywhere, right now.  Most of the news and PR spin coming from Governments around the world is pure FUD, then backpedaling.  As a result of these quasi-empty, well timed threats coming out of news agencies that are literally being paid to churn out paid propaganda, many exchanges are voluntarily enacting KYC/AML policies to the effect of locking up peoples money, losing clients, and going out of business.  

Exchanges are not banks.  Right now, in the US, exchanges that do fiat to crypto and allow bank wires in and out of accounts are not currently required to send their customers a 1099K form, which is the form that reports to the IRS on profit, loss and income. Why is that?  Because the IRS has still not set a clear policy on crypto.  The last policy the IRS set was in 2014 in it's decision to classify Bitcoin as an asset instead of a currency, which pretty much the definition of a poison pill. And recently a Federal Court determined that it was the courts opinion that Bitcoin was not an asset, but a commodity.

KYC/AML has nothing to do with terrorism, or organized crime anymore, those guys from the Cartels, The Triads, The various Mob Organizations, Putins Oligarchs, they simply go right to the top and pay off or blackmail the government officials and regulators. They really don't even have to try and blackmail anybody anymore, cause most of these people in control of these things are just happy to take the money.  

"The regulators aren't concerned about money laundering, except that they get their cut." - Paul H.


Anyone who is in crypto and is fully supporting KYC/AML should have their head examined. KYC/AML is about control.  Control of most of us here on these forums, the little people, the tax cattle.

Quote
Satoshi Nakamoto's vision outlined in Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System:

"Abstract: A  purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.  Digital signatures provide part of the solution, but the main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required to prevent double-spending. We propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer network. The network timestamps transactions by hashing them into an ongoing chain of hash-based proof-of-work, forming a record that cannot be changed without redoing the proof-of-work."

Bitcoin is the first decentralized digital currency, as the system works without a central bank or single administrator. The network is peer-to-peer and transactions take place between users directly, without an intermediary. These transactions are verified by network nodes through the use of cryptography and recorded in a public distributed ledger called a blockchain.

This reality is brought to you the people in the inside of the Global Fiat Cabal who happen to be very good stock traders who are making really good money in the various crypto to fiat exchanges around the world. Take some time to get to know know them, they are here among us:

A conversation overheard on a US based crypto trading floor a few weeks back by several retired successful stock brokers who now play the market of BTC to USD:

Quote
Paul H: The regulators aren't concerned about money laundering, except that they get their cut. If they were, all the big banks would be shut down. They have already paid fines for money laundering. And we know they are continuing, because they have been fined again.

So, its not about money laundering, its about making sure the tax cattle cannot escape.  All the little people have to stay and take their hair cut. (Like Crimea) While all the big boys, in the club, get to avoid such.

Fortunately, if the govern-cement does ban cryptos, it will only make them more valuable, and more people will use them. See any of the past prohibitions.

Ted C: Yep. The tax issue is huge. I think having such an open international exchange program is making the tax collector sweat. How can you possibly track the trades and gains on exchanges who are housed everywhere throughout the globe? You pretty much have to rely on the tax payer's honesty, and they are unlikely to do that.
$0.04

Robert G: Especially when honesty can cost you so much. Never speak of bitcoin and the Infernal Revolting Service will never ask you any questions.  Speak of bitcoin and they will have you over a barrel and demanding to know everything and after all that they will fine you for not doing what they said (after) in the first place.

Paul H:   They don't have to use bitcoin for money laundering If such currencies like monero and dash exist ))

Ted C: Yep, it's pretty difficult to launder money with crypto anyways. At least on a grand scale. You can turn it into cash easy enough, but the difficulty of laundering money has never been getting cash, it's getting fiat into a legit bank account without raising eyebrows. Still not easy to do with crypto.

Tony R: It will be interesting to see how cryptos for cannabis will fit into this world, as this blog says, less than 1 percent is used for money laundering. How do all the cannabis-related coins fit into this if they plan on using it for the exchange of cannabis (even legal cannabis)? Would that be considered "illicit activities" in the minds of regulators? Yet, the big banks are the biggest launderers of drug cartel money.


Fred S:It is simply the Big Corps finding an excuse to try to shut down Cryptocurrency

A little word to the wise: Coinbase has been thoroughly compromised. Move your accounts to Gemini, bitFlyer, anyone but Coinbase. We will soon see the garroted, rotting corpses hanging from the lampposts in cities around the US of the people betrayed by Coinbase when they caved in court, and most suspect that the price of the deal was an always open backdoor for the IRS to access information on US taxpayers with little or no resistance, going forward.

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 504
March 23, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
Several months ago I made certain that some projects that need verification are very uncertain. On the question to the manager: "So, when I will receive my tokens?" I've got an answer: "We don't have official announcement yet." A lot of people I spoke with believe that project failed. So KYC doesn't always guaranty reliability.
Its absolutely right its never been guarantee that if some one asking for KYC then this project is going to be succeeded its just for some paper works I also joined few projects and passed this but still these most failed and now in next few months this is going to be more tough as many governments going to be very strict about this which can hit these ICO's very baldy as many users don't want to share their own personal information on internet for safety
member
Activity: 311
Merit: 10
March 23, 2018, 12:21:12 AM
It's an invasion of privacy in my opinion, but the world is controlled by man made laws, and this is how they maintain that control. If everyone was free range and able to do whatever they please, they would lose control. This is why BTC is attacked, obviously, and why ICO sales have been using KYC methods that are a total invasion of privacy
member
Activity: 294
Merit: 10
March 23, 2018, 12:21:02 AM
I am not making a statement one way or another about gun control, just using it as an example.  Gun control rules create a set of circumstances that means law abiding citizens have fewer guns and criminals have more. The financial institutions are agents of the government and AML/KYC is one such rods handed to them to beat people into line, so that a tab is kept on every of their dealings for scrutiny anytime
newbie
Activity: 112
Merit: 0
March 23, 2018, 12:20:41 AM
I think you are in the know of how financial institution works and talk candid - the combination doesn't come easy. I am related to financial institutes in Australia and I'm a bitcoin early-adopter/supporter/consultant/journalist. If you take out large amounts of cash, they report on you also.  Account mangers have to audit any flagged account, based on a set of hush hush rules, and report. Like if you deposit as little as 2000.00 in cash, if that's not normal for that account
member
Activity: 532
Merit: 25
March 22, 2018, 02:54:09 AM
Several months ago I made certain that some projects that need verification are very uncertain. On the question to the manager: "So, when I will receive my tokens?" I've got an answer: "We don't have official announcement yet." A lot of people I spoke with believe that project failed. So KYC doesn't always guaranty reliability.
sr. member
Activity: 728
Merit: 264
March 21, 2018, 06:22:54 PM
I justed learned the AML procedure from you article, thanks for that. I really like and support KYC process. This is a nightmare for the multi account owners. The best parf of this enable a fair bounty distribution.
member
Activity: 140
Merit: 10
March 21, 2018, 12:49:41 PM
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
March 20, 2018, 12:42:33 PM
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hero member
Activity: 1116
Merit: 535
March 20, 2018, 10:15:41 AM
This is all amazing guys but why KYC/AML is still so centralized? I mean common, blockchain is used everywhere and still we have to send over Internet our passports, driving licenses, utility bills, etc. Any ideas how to  get around it? There must a company to offer decentralized KYC services.

Nope, this wouldn't function. Not from the personal data protection perspective, at least not in Europe.
These are all your personal data and they can't be shared and distributed without your explicite consent and used for exactly defined purpose. The regulation is rather strict concerning that issue.

What about this?!

https://www.civic.com/
https://www.icopass.id/

legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1068
WOLF.BET - Provably Fair Crypto Casino
March 20, 2018, 08:22:57 AM
This is all amazing guys but why KYC/AML is still so centralized? I mean common, blockchain is used everywhere and still we have to send over Internet our passports, driving licenses, utility bills, etc. Any ideas how to  get around it? There must a company to offer decentralized KYC services.

Nope, this wouldn't function. Not from the personal data protection perspective, at least not in Europe.
These are all your personal data and they can't be shared and distributed without your explicite consent and used for exactly defined purpose. The regulation is rather strict concerning that issue.
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
March 19, 2018, 05:15:24 PM
The subject is really interesting, but I think it should improve some aspects, or possibly they are not very well explained and people like me do not understand well because we do not live in an environment where that is imagined feasible.
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
March 19, 2018, 12:26:10 PM
This is all amazing guys but why KYC/AML is still so centralized? I mean common, blockchain is used everywhere and still we have to send over Internet our passports, driving licenses, utility bills, etc. Any ideas how to  get around it? There must a company to offer decentralized KYC services.

Ya, Selfkey is building decentralized platform to do KYC/ID without a need to send your docs over the network.
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
March 18, 2018, 01:04:06 PM
This is all amazing guys but why KYC/AML is still so centralized? I mean common, blockchain is used everywhere and still we have to send over Internet our passports, driving licenses, utility bills, etc. Any ideas how to  get around it? There must a company to offer decentralized KYC services.
full member
Activity: 546
Merit: 100
burst.money
March 17, 2018, 09:16:35 AM
AML/KYC is a barrier to entry for small Bitcoin startups and effectively hinders Bitcoin innovation .. it should be IGNORED
KYC means know your consuser.it is a effective way of getting tokens or coins. Kyc is an anti Cheater activities in AIRDROP and bounties.
newbie
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
March 16, 2018, 01:54:25 AM
The set of procedures, rules and regulations which are designed with a view to curtail the money laundering or criminal use of the financial institutions is called Anti Money laundering process. Many measures are developed across the globe to curtail money laundering and combating terrorist financing. While KYC is one of a anti money laundering procedure or a small part of AML and Combating Financing terrorism (CFT).
newbie
Activity: 85
Merit: 0
March 16, 2018, 01:44:46 AM
Know Your Customer or (KYC) is a requirement in the process of adhering to the preventitive measures necessary to monitor money laundering techniques used by suspected parties. It involves questions by a banking officer or principal of a firm which allows the officer to ascertain the primary source of funds which are being used to carryout a financial transaction.
The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA)
is responsible for making sure all financial firms adhere to the “Bank Secrecy Act.” The Bank Secrecy Act has implementing regulations which amount to “Anti-Money Laundering” (AML) rules. The AML rules are in place to help
protect and report suspicious activity regarding financial transactions. It mainly focuses on those actions which predicate money laundering, terrorist funding, market manipulation and securities fraud.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
March 11, 2018, 09:09:27 AM
Thanks - great write-up. Interesting how this applies to token sales rather than exchanges/other services. Exchanges are dealing directly with fiat, so it makes sense for AML/KYC.

In the case of a token sale, surely the seller is basically selling a digital asset that has some future utility? Furthermore tokens are almost always bought with other cryptocurrencies, not fiat, so why does AML/KYC apply to token sales? It seems strange to say that a token is not an investment/security and then apply the kind of controls an investment/security has to it?

If I buy an ebook (digital asset) and even pay with fiat, there are no such checks. So why are these checks being applied to token sales?
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
March 10, 2018, 09:51:41 AM
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jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 4
March 09, 2018, 06:48:09 AM
If we being very sincere with ourselves and logical, the KYC/AML request are a necessity in today world, because of the reasons clearly stated. Its a fact that there is terrorism financing, human trafficking and sex slaves, drug dealing etc. If we are good people at heart, I believe that we would like all these stuff to be stopped or eradicated totally, but now cryptos anonymity has only created a big avenue for these things to thrive.

That being said, I don't like my personal data in hands of millions of random people and companies. Already we are suffering from "targeted adverts" to a phones and email, after webiste have promised not to share our personal data. So yea, I can't really trust the KYC/AML words for it. So I guess is a tough one, "universal gain vs. personal gain". A better world with more transparent dealings or a worse world but you (we) the individuals safe in our own small corner - in the end the chaos will reach your doorstep.

What i'd love the most genius cryptographers to come up with is a system where we keep our anonymity, but we can meet the requirements of these KYC/AML to ensure we are not doing illegal stuff... May The Force BE With Them.

I fully agree with you and my experiences relate. I am also trying to roll out an ICO that will make decentralized ID's possible. So in essence you would only need to perform KYC once, and as soon as all checks are done - your documents and the like are deleted, which means there will be no centralized storage of ID or data. If security is breached - intruders will have access to nothing but the blockchain TXs (elaborated on further below) which is futile as it would already be in the public domain. The onus would rest on you though to ensure that your device (PC/tablet/smartphone) is not vulnerable.

* If your (hypothetical) address is: 1234 Crypto Street, Cryptoville, Cryptania
* Your date of birth (derived from ID/SSN or equivalent) is: 01/01/1980

Any other entity that would require KYC should only know that you are from Cryptoville, Cryptania (street address should not be necessary) and that you are 38 years of age - no "specific" info will be divulged. We would simulanteously check if you are on any PEP/terrorist/other crime related lists and have just an atomic value of Yes or No. Once KYC is successful - we issue a cryptographic identity that can be used any other place where KYC is required as we would "vouch" for the legitimacy of your identity. Even further should an entity need to access your profile - they would need to have undergone KYC in the first place, and then you can either accept/reject the access to your info. These requests will be written to a blockchain so that there is transparency and a proper audit trail. This is the jist of the propsed system - I have omitted the complex cryptography and smart contracts behind the concept.

Hopefully the crypto community will see the value behind this venture and support us so that it can be implemented successfully.
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