Topic: An open discussion on Provably Fair (Read 1996 times)

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The problem is that the win chance will be slightly lower, or equivalently the house edge will be slightly higher than the advertised value.

What if you don't round off and just take the amount of decimals you want? It seems I'm missing some basic math knowledge today

edit:

Hmm that doesn't seem to be right either.  Only 1048575 would yield 100.00 then while 0-104 would yield 0.00

edit2:

Of course for 0.01% chance I should do >99.98 or <0.01. Without rounding exactly 104 different numbers would yield a number 99.98 and exactly 104 numbers would be <0.01

So it's still provably fair if you don't round the numbers.

If the sites divide the number 0 - 1048575 by 10485.75 and round off the number, the chance of having a roll "<0.01" will be 104/1048576 = 0.00991821289% rather than 0.01%.

provably fair ...yea but lot of site use " Probably Fair " not provably fair 

I'd like to use this thread to discuss something.

Why do most sites, ie. PrimeDice, Dice.ninja, Dicebitco.in all loop through 5 hex characters (so a 0-1048575 number) of the hash and if it's lower than 1 million divide by 10,000 to get a 0-100 number, if not go to next 5 characters. Why not just divide by 10485.75 right away?

why did this thread die?

In that case, maybe we can agree to help create a new way to do provable fairness.

There is no room for opinions in "An open discussion on Provably Fair" ?

If the users take the necessary steps no manipulation could take place, of course. What I said is that the system is not perfect and I agree with stunna that it's in its infancy.

Enforcing a provable result could be a good step.

I have also stated that I do not believe that PD or JD would ever manipulate anything.




I share this opinion.

There is no room for opinions here, only facts. Give facts as to how primedice and just-dice could scam their users if the users take the necessary steps.

I am being accused by RGBKey for being a shill for LN while trying to discuss the current provably fair system.

I never claimed that Lucky Number is provably fair.
My point is that the provably fair systems implemented in all dice websites don't protect the user 100% when it comes to fairness.

We need a new system.

I stick to my opinion and if you don't agree I would prefer you leaving me alone instead of calling me an idiot and leaving me negative trust.

Bump, because there still is and always will be shills for sites that aren't provably fair.

What we need is a Proof of Trust algo lol.   

I fully agree with the points you brought up. Provably fair is dangerous to gamblers as it gives them a truly false sense of security. I still feel there isn't a strong enough provably fair method for off-chain sites, the only site I feel is very provably fair is Satoshidice and I've heard of potential ways for them to game their system as well (I don't believe they ever have or would).

A while ago I spoke with someone who was working on "Provably fair II" but he never ended up finishing his work. Until there is some sort of stronger trustless system in place, users should only gamble on sites they personally trust. Also it is important to change your seeds and make them your own (if applicable) as frequently as possible and actually check your results. While we finish PD3 I'm open to any feedback on how we can create a more simple/secure provable fair system to the point where users will actually verify their rolls.

Ultimately even the strongest provably fair relies on the operator/website to not be a bad actor as virtually anything can be deleted or changed to enforce a "provable result". This all goes without saying that 90%+ of players do not even check the fairness of their rolls or only check them once.

I personally think provably fair while arguably much better than RNG is still very stupid and dangerous if not used properly. Right now provably fair is in its infancy, as this industry continues to grow it is inevitable that an open source standard will be created for all websites to abide by which will be watched over by third parties or the entire community. The main issue is that most users simply do not understand how provable fairness works, it confuses me as well still to an extent. There are infinite custom implementations of "provably fair" so it won't mean the same thing from site to site or even be provable in most instances, this is the issue this community is presented with.

oh i have only noticed them as being a bitcoin operation, some of these new sites are using them. Anyhow, thanks for the info.

Stuff outside of bitcoin isn't really my thing but it's pretty much trustworthy the same way banks are trustworthy, you're trusting someone else with a reputation.

RGB, I made a new thread about it but was curious if you knew anything about the Itech Labs RNG that casinos using Soft swiss software are using. These websites only have a certificate from this company claiming fairness. Is this in anyway trustworthy? any info would be much appreciated.

Is there a list of those "truly provably fair" and "bugged provable fair" gambling sites?

Totally agree and support you RGB.  Many sites, including Ritz, claiming they are "provably fair" but they don't even know what this means. 

I ask the if they are PF like You proposed, but I myself dont understand their explanation because I am a noob regarding PF.
what then?

thanks