Topic: Analyzing other players in poker games - page 2. (Read 357 times)

I will tell you that is extremely difficult to analyze or even when you do a lot of analyses you still can lose as you think only one combination of cards of the opponents can make you lose and you think he has not those cards and go all in only to see that the opponent has those cards and lose.

A good example from which I have lost is always like this, in the cards shown are 789 and I have 56 so I go all in thinking it is almost impossible for opponent to have 10 and Jack and when I go all in I see opponent having 10 and Jack card making me lose. So from this example I conclude that analyze as much as you want you can still lose.

The game should be fair, I honestly don't understand how someone can use a bot in an online game, will it count cards? I'm not sure that it's possible, but I admit that I don't understand a lot about it, and of course I wouldn't want to play against an opponent who uses aids, it would be an unequal game. And I think it's possible to distinguish a bot from a human, the difference will be noticeable, there will be different delay times between moves and different reactions to my actions, so I think it's possible to distinguish.

My understanding is that poker is as much about reading your opponents
as it is about reading the cards and this is most achieved when playing
face to face tournaments. And on your side its as much about your discipline
and mental ability as it is about how you play your cards in a particular situation.

You are looking for "tells" from your opponents, the might move a certain way,
smile, do something with their hands etc. after receiving cards or when
river or flop are played, is a bot going to register all that?

Automatically? I'm not an expert as to the limits and maximum reach of AI right now, but it seems difficult. After all, as you've indicated, the chance of meeting same players is rather low. So, is there a way for AI to provide you the profiles, tendencies, strategies, play patterns, and so on of your opponents right away? I'm afraid it's not that instant.

If you're playing tournaments offline though, I'm sure some players have created certain reputations within the community-- some kind of aggressive, some prefer playing safe, and so on. There must have been patterns developed in their way of playing, although I don't think high-level poker players are that predictable.

It's a perfectly workable good idea. Even more than that, it is possible that such an AI is already being used by someone. Although from a legal point of view, I doubt that it is legal. Is it allowed to use auxiliary technical means and software for the game? In my opinion, this is not allowed. Although, such data collection and subsequent training and use of the AI model will be almost impossible to prove. (After all, we are talking about online poker, as I understand it).

If automated bots are scrapped due to being clunky I don't think a bot on the command to analyze oppositions/other players handed cards would uniquely perform one of the efficient results.

If ideologically we think the casinos are cracking down  the auto bots due to its nature of cheating, using other mechanical systems as thought can not be spare to exist in any of the proactive (no cheating) updated casinos.

Cheating is cheating either porker or whatever casino games is required to be played single handedly by human performance and not AI but if that seems to be workable and acceptable, of course it would be a great one for the users while other players suffers it and for this thought I don't see this technology feasible.

I believe that even in this case, bots remain cheating aids, the use of which is not allowed both in poker in particular and in gambling in general. Any aids that disrupt the game balance between gamblers provide advantages that have no place in gambling such as gambler vs. gambler. The confrontation in poker should be between the personal qualities of gamblers, and not in who has more advanced (technically better) aids or the ability to use them. I am for "pure" gambling.

You look at their general personality according to how deep do they bluff, at what cards they go all in and how much risk they are willing to take.
We can get the basic outlook within a few hands and when you play them for days, you get the knowledge of their playing style so you could devise your playing style accordingly. As an example, there are people who bluff a lot even with high hands, you can easily milk money out of them when you have a better card. While some people go hard only when they have a triple or flush, if you think you can't have better hand, you could just fold saving yourself.
Poker indeed is a game of reading each other and planning accordingly. Only luck won't take you far unless you read other players.

Not that it's possible, it's been possible for a long time, since before there were AIs, that there are statistics programmes that, based on the player's history, tell you if he is more aggressive (and therefore tends to bluff more) and less aggressive (and then raises only when he has a very good hand), things like that. These are commonly used, because they are legal, the only thing is that the statistics are collected by the program every time you play. However, there are also those who sell statistics, data already collected so that if you start in a room you can know how your opponents play without having to wait to collect the statistics yourself. This is forbidden but there is a black market.
And nowadays with AI I wouldn't be surprised if software has been developed to save you from having to think, to tell you which is the most optimal move.
But all these programs can only be used in fiat rooms, I don't think you can use any of them in a cryptocurrency room.

As ridiculous as it sounds, technically speaking isn't that already the bot playing and it's just using you as a medium instead?

I 100% agree it's plausible, it's just a bit of live web scraping towards the games of each player to find out what decision they'd take in the most likely case, kind of like breaking it down to multiple choice questions, but I reckon wouldn't general data be more than enough? Like I reckon if you gather said data, a LOT of those data would pretty much tally towards doing the same thing during say, the river when they have a pair, or a high card. Naturally having more specific information is much more advantageous but I reckon that'd just overkill for the most part?

I believe this will be available in no time or maybe does exist already but we just havent known. With the help of AI the idea you mentioned isnt impossible, but there will be questions to its accuracy of course.

Wondering if anyone had some encountered with this kind or at least knew of.

It would basically the same that bots which play for you, the only difference it would be your interference on whether to pay attention to the profile being drawn for you by the bot or trust your gut on what it is the best approach for each situation.
See... people do not invest their time and money to create a frictional poker bot only to end up ignoring it's recommendations, so if you had access to such a tool you would end up abusing it's power to increase your profit or chances of profit as much as possible, anyone would do the same.
That is why I prefer to play face-to-face poker nowadays and I train playing with actual people instead of going on the internet and waste my time with bots who try to get as much advantage off my as possible, and think faster than I do. At least, face-to-face poker offers other mechanisms and ways to get your objective, it offers chances to deceive other players and read their corporal cues while you build your own strategy up. That is the kind of poker I love.

It's great that you came up with the idea of ​​using a bot to profile players and calculate best practices in real time in poker, especially in tournaments. Gathering information about your opponent is very important. But as you said It's hard to use that information if you don't meet the same players infrequently. Savings are best done in cash games where you are often facing familiar opponents but even then you will need to be more focused and attentive to details.

It involves using AI or bots to calculate the best moves based on player behavior. I think it is important to acknowledge the ethical and legal implications, even though AI is certainly advanced and capable of deeper analysis. But usage during live games Even if it's just collecting information and not actively playing. But it is considered an unfair advantage. Most poker platforms prohibit the use of any support that may strictly affect the game. and gives one player an advantage over the others. However, there are some legal tools and data that provide insights based on player profile data (e.g. trends, ratings) and can help you improve your own game. If you point out how others play their hands The key is to use them ethically as a learning tool behind the game rather than something that influences your decisions in real time. In the end Poker is all about skill and adapting to table changes. which is part of the fun

I am interested if people are doing this and how they do it. Do you take notes and what kind of information do you use?

I have sometimes just watched a hands trough to end knowing that i'll lose, just to know how others play their cards that seemingly don't make sense, and i have seen them just just waiting for the river to save them etc. But analyzing others only works in cash table games where there are certain amount of people, and i am mostly playing huge tournaments these days, and changes to meet same players is rather low, as so are cases where i could even use my notes against them.

This made me think if there are bot services that i could use for creating player profiles automatically. You know, bots that would include action history and deduct best action for each player, in every possible combination. Combining info on how they have played each hand, combined with which community cards and in which stages (pre-flop, flop, turn, or river). And obviously using data like chip count, bet, and if they have BB at the time, and stuff like that.

I am certain that something like this could be build, but parsing that data into useful information requires lots of work. But i am assuming there must has already to be AI that is using massive behavioral profile databases to beat those players.

So, as automated bots are probably frowned on, how about bots that don't play, but just calculate best actions for current situation against the players in real time?