Respectfully,
Justin, you do not have to refund any of us if you do not want to, I get that. But sometimes in life you have to do the right thing and in the long run it will be for the better. For example my pool was just hacked and he managed to steal over 40 BTC. We could of just said o damn time to run away and make a new account. We didn't, we refunded over $25,000 dollars to our miners. We are now re-opening and we have had a tremendous amount of positive media from it.
I get that you are continuing your efforts with BitBay but from the way things are looking you should give the investors the opportunity to retract their investments seeing what has transpired here. If you don't the site will fail, no one will visit it after they see this thread and that is not good for you or us as investors.
Topic: [Ann] BitAuction - BitBay Development Transfer - page 3. (Read 4231 times)
@justin,
You have a responsibility to allow us to revoke our shares for a full refund, or at least transference of the invested BTC back to Cassie.
Since you did not disclose that these were YOUR allotted shares that we were buying, every one of your early round investors were lied to. We bought shares of "Bitbay" not "coding enhancements by justin" and as such, you need to allow people that request a way to exit without loss.
Consideration on this is very important moving forward if you intend to maintain developing in this community. You basically absconded with investor's funds and forced us into your business model. That is theft, and should anyone decide to take you to court, you would be found guilty.
I would suggest you allow each member on the OP assets list choose what they want to do. Otherwise, you have a very big problem looming overhead.
Also, what is this about you are 17... you do realize if you are not a legal adult... you cannot sign anything legally binding without your guardian also signing, unless you are emancipated. If this is true, your parents are now responsible for all the funds you collected and spent, and they can be liable for reimbursement.
Very troubling to say the least...
10 shares .25 BTC 1DAemoNXFNQxeDQAeRdEg245WvYsCfdgE9
You do not even have to respond if you choose to straight refund me. I will delete my posts from this thread should you do the right thing.
You have a responsibility to allow us to revoke our shares for a full refund, or at least transference of the invested BTC back to Cassie.
Since you did not disclose that these were YOUR allotted shares that we were buying, every one of your early round investors were lied to. We bought shares of "Bitbay" not "coding enhancements by justin" and as such, you need to allow people that request a way to exit without loss.
Consideration on this is very important moving forward if you intend to maintain developing in this community. You basically absconded with investor's funds and forced us into your business model. That is theft, and should anyone decide to take you to court, you would be found guilty.
I would suggest you allow each member on the OP assets list choose what they want to do. Otherwise, you have a very big problem looming overhead.
Also, what is this about you are 17... you do realize if you are not a legal adult... you cannot sign anything legally binding without your guardian also signing, unless you are emancipated. If this is true, your parents are now responsible for all the funds you collected and spent, and they can be liable for reimbursement.
Very troubling to say the least...
10 shares .25 BTC 1DAemoNXFNQxeDQAeRdEg245WvYsCfdgE9
You do not even have to respond if you choose to straight refund me. I will delete my posts from this thread should you do the right thing.
If you believe the site belongs to cassie then ask her for the refund. If you will excuse me I am working on BitAuctions. I will still release as planned. All share holders on the list are locked in.
Wow this guy is a piece of work, you steal the money and use it to pay your personal bills, as referred to by the Skype logs, and then you wash your hands of it and try to pass the responsibility onto Cassie? Mods doesn't this buy deserve a perma ban for ripping off half the forum? FYI if anyone wants to sue the crap out of this guy, I think Cassie has his personal info from the LLC application he tried to submit.
P.S. Genius DaemonFox is one of your investors as refereed to by you on the first post of this, I took a nice screen shot of it and time dated it in case you try to pull any scummy moves like trying to remove it.
God i hate scum bags like this. You deserve a special place in hell.
@justin,
You have a responsibility to allow us to revoke our shares for a full refund, or at least transference of the invested BTC back to Cassie.
Since you did not disclose that these were YOUR allotted shares that we were buying, every one of your early round investors were lied to. We bought shares of "Bitbay" not "coding enhancements by justin" and as such, you need to allow people that request a way to exit without loss.
Consideration on this is very important moving forward if you intend to maintain developing in this community. You basically absconded with investor's funds and forced us into your business model. That is theft, and should anyone decide to take you to court, you would be found guilty.
I would suggest you allow each member on the OP assets list choose what they want to do. Otherwise, you have a very big problem looming overhead.
Also, what is this about you are 17... you do realize if you are not a legal adult... you cannot sign anything legally binding without your guardian also signing, unless you are emancipated. If this is true, your parents are now responsible for all the funds you collected and spent, and they can be liable for reimbursement.
Very troubling to say the least...
10 shares .25 BTC 1DAemoNXFNQxeDQAeRdEg245WvYsCfdgE9
You do not even have to respond if you choose to straight refund me. I will delete my posts from this thread should you do the right thing.
You have a responsibility to allow us to revoke our shares for a full refund, or at least transference of the invested BTC back to Cassie.
Since you did not disclose that these were YOUR allotted shares that we were buying, every one of your early round investors were lied to. We bought shares of "Bitbay" not "coding enhancements by justin" and as such, you need to allow people that request a way to exit without loss.
Consideration on this is very important moving forward if you intend to maintain developing in this community. You basically absconded with investor's funds and forced us into your business model. That is theft, and should anyone decide to take you to court, you would be found guilty.
I would suggest you allow each member on the OP assets list choose what they want to do. Otherwise, you have a very big problem looming overhead.
Also, what is this about you are 17... you do realize if you are not a legal adult... you cannot sign anything legally binding without your guardian also signing, unless you are emancipated. If this is true, your parents are now responsible for all the funds you collected and spent, and they can be liable for reimbursement.
Very troubling to say the least...
10 shares .25 BTC 1DAemoNXFNQxeDQAeRdEg245WvYsCfdgE9
You do not even have to respond if you choose to straight refund me. I will delete my posts from this thread should you do the right thing.
If you believe the site belongs to cassie then ask her for the refund. If you will excuse me I am working on BitAuctions. I will still release as planned. All share holders on the list are locked in.
@Justin Sorry to hear about Cassie, hope she has not taken too much of the startup money? Thanks for your efforts in continuing to push this project.
lulz
Having read recent posts especially after my comments and screenshots, I have to agree in principle with what most of you feel. I am not an investor in this project nor do I know the two protagonists however from the off it seemed as though someone trying to taking control of a project in an underhand manner (and then saying it was to save the project) is just not right when their only remit was to 'code' a site. Furthermore, then for one person to openly state that he took funds from your investments for living expenses makes it clear the funds you have invested in the project are currently with the wrong person!
@aTriz
You paid 3.75BTC for 50 shares? You are definitely doing the right thing requesting a refund because 3.75BTC is a lot but try and stick together in a group with other investors who want a refund as it is better to speak with one voice and not have individual requests for refunds.
@Cenron
I do not know where you obtained information about the coders age, but if he is 17 then surely that information was not openly declared otherwise I would find it hard to believe anyone would invest directly in the company via him. If his age is correct, many thanks are due to you for bringing this information to the attention of the investors
@paulthetafy
Nice site. I wish you success with it and hope you would not mind a little competition if BitBay does come along one day
@daemonfox
With the greatest respect to you, I know you would like your investment back but please consider what your fellow investors want and by the look of it things are not good therefore probably all investors would ask for a refund. Maybe it is better for all investors to take a unified approach rather than tackling the issue one by one? I mean stronger in numbers...
The investors need to get their funds back as soon as possible before ALL your funds will be used as living expenses and other expenses related to the project which might not be proven actually have occurred but receipts might be provided upon questioning it.
No one knows how much of the funds remain so if you stand any chance of getting all or most back you need to take action NOW otherwise there might not be anything left!
Startup money was generated already. The rest of the money was my payout. The 50% of the company that went towards paying shares was my 50%. I have plenty to continue development. The money recently has been used to keep me off the streets and working on BitBay and OpenEx. I have devoted my time accordingly and BitBay is going to be a success. BitBay official release which will not change is in 3 weeks from today.
@aTriz
You paid 3.75BTC for 50 shares? You are definitely doing the right thing requesting a refund because 3.75BTC is a lot but try and stick together in a group with other investors who want a refund as it is better to speak with one voice and not have individual requests for refunds.
@Cenron
I do not know where you obtained information about the coders age, but if he is 17 then surely that information was not openly declared otherwise I would find it hard to believe anyone would invest directly in the company via him. If his age is correct, many thanks are due to you for bringing this information to the attention of the investors
@paulthetafy
Nice site. I wish you success with it and hope you would not mind a little competition if BitBay does come along one day
@daemonfox
With the greatest respect to you, I know you would like your investment back but please consider what your fellow investors want and by the look of it things are not good therefore probably all investors would ask for a refund. Maybe it is better for all investors to take a unified approach rather than tackling the issue one by one? I mean stronger in numbers...
The investors need to get their funds back as soon as possible before ALL your funds will be used as living expenses and other expenses related to the project which might not be proven actually have occurred but receipts might be provided upon questioning it.
No one knows how much of the funds remain so if you stand any chance of getting all or most back you need to take action NOW otherwise there might not be anything left!
@justin,
You have a responsibility to allow us to revoke our shares for a full refund, or at least transference of the invested BTC back to Cassie.
Since you did not disclose that these were YOUR allotted shares that we were buying, every one of your early round investors were lied to. We bought shares of "Bitbay" not "coding enhancements by justin" and as such, you need to allow people that request a way to exit without loss.
Consideration on this is very important moving forward if you intend to maintain developing in this community. You basically absconded with investor's funds and forced us into your business model. That is theft, and should anyone decide to take you to court, you would be found guilty.
I would suggest you allow each member on the OP assets list choose what they want to do. Otherwise, you have a very big problem looming overhead.
Also, what is this about you are 17... you do realize if you are not a legal adult... you cannot sign anything legally binding without your guardian also signing, unless you are emancipated. If this is true, your parents are now responsible for all the funds you collected and spent, and they can be liable for reimbursement.
Very troubling to say the least...
10 shares .25 BTC 1DAemoNXFNQxeDQAeRdEg245WvYsCfdgE9
You do not even have to respond if you choose to straight refund me. I will delete my posts from this thread should you do the right thing.
You have a responsibility to allow us to revoke our shares for a full refund, or at least transference of the invested BTC back to Cassie.
Since you did not disclose that these were YOUR allotted shares that we were buying, every one of your early round investors were lied to. We bought shares of "Bitbay" not "coding enhancements by justin" and as such, you need to allow people that request a way to exit without loss.
Consideration on this is very important moving forward if you intend to maintain developing in this community. You basically absconded with investor's funds and forced us into your business model. That is theft, and should anyone decide to take you to court, you would be found guilty.
I would suggest you allow each member on the OP assets list choose what they want to do. Otherwise, you have a very big problem looming overhead.
Also, what is this about you are 17... you do realize if you are not a legal adult... you cannot sign anything legally binding without your guardian also signing, unless you are emancipated. If this is true, your parents are now responsible for all the funds you collected and spent, and they can be liable for reimbursement.
Very troubling to say the least...
10 shares .25 BTC 1DAemoNXFNQxeDQAeRdEg245WvYsCfdgE9
You do not even have to respond if you choose to straight refund me. I will delete my posts from this thread should you do the right thing.
BitAuction will allow the usage of a number of coins that the seller may choose from as a form of payment.
With the sudden loss of Bitmit we are looking to provide a permanent home for auctioneers looking to sell securely in cryptocurrency.
With the sudden loss of Bitmit we are looking to provide a permanent home for auctioneers looking to sell securely in cryptocurrency.
You guys might want to check out cryptothrift.com. We are already live, accept BTC/LTC/FTC/XPM, provide escrow, have a good turnover of auctions, are NOT a turnkey operation, and get 30,000 page views a month and rising. We are NOT looking for investment.
Sincerely yours,
paulthetafy/paulscreen
cryptothrift.com partner & developer
I am kinda new to this and wanted to try and invest, but from what I have seen, this site will end bad. I heard that this Justin guy is 17? How does a minor sign LLC papers? or be able to sell anything. All transactions made by a minor are null and void or the responsibility of the minor's guardians?
Our current live preview (Not the most recent code | Changes have not been submitted yet) https://bitbay.cc
The site at http://bitbay.cc is a turnkey site that can be purchased for US$47.
Now, if someone uses that as a base to build their code around then it is not essentially a 'bad' thing. I regularly use open source software to build stores/sites, I just modify them to the point they are almost unrecognisable and have a different feel about them. I love using open source and existing ecommerce sites, my current project is based around one and I modify it all myself. Just when the real complex things cannot be done, I rent-a-coder and do the rest myself. I am all for using a template (open source or otherwise for any project) but transparency is totally paramount in cases such as these because there could be vulnerabilities to the code and investors need to know what is going on and how the site is being scripted, not just have a target date because the investment of staggering amounts of BTC as well as the hopes and aspirations of returns by the investors are HUGE.
The code he has is cheap off the shelf turn Key script not worth 100,000+ dollars in shares he wants to sell for himself.I tried to tell him that the shares where for Bitbays Development not him to spend as he wishes.
http://zonetheme.com/nulled-script/download-zeeauctions-ebay-clone-auction-php-script-software-nulled-scripts.html
http://zeeauctions.com/demo/
https://bitbay.cc
Investors, seriously, ask for your money back and only re-invest once you are satisfied the battle between the two protagonists is over. Not for me to say who is right and who is wrong here but surely investors should not be part of this. Pull your investment out immediately and re-invest if your heart desires after things become clear.
Then make sure the code is up to the job and make sure the file servers, image servers, db servers(s) and loadbalancers are set up to maximise your outlay. Questions about where to host, where to buy the EV SSL, which server/db configuration to employ, which periods/locations for DB back, where to store all master user/pass in case the main dev becomes unavailable or incapacitated and how investors can login themselves to check income/expenditure and receive daily/weekly/monthly cash flow documents so on and so forth.
These issues and others have to form part of the investors contract. Pull your investments out for now guys until everything becomes crystal clear.
--
This is all a bit too much to handle honestly...
While I am content to keep 10 shares in the auction site... there are a few things which are going to haunt this venture for a long time...
1. Justin, you may have the LLC and Trademark because you filed first, but any case opened will reveal through investigation what the timeline was and how things transpired... there is a possibility that 10% allocated is not enough and a suit would reward the plaintiff with a much more substantial amount... do your due diligence and get some representation to at least give you a bit of sound legal advice regarding this before you get too far in to minimize the damage.
2. It is now public record that you used funds generated by shares you sold that were allotted to you at the beginning of the project. With you filing an LLC AFTER the fact, you still have some liability to have used those funds responsibly for the company and not personal maters. What is transcribed in the Skype conversation is very worrying, and damaging... should someone bring a suit against you or bring a government entity into the picture, you will be hard pressed to show you used the raised funds accordingly, and may find yourself dealing with even more of a mess than just arguing over ownership and profit sharing. Again, you need to seek out some legal aide to define your position and help you understand these mistakes and what you can do about them.
3. Bitcoin is taxable, which means what you spent needs to be reported properly, and if you are not attempting to claim the physical property you spent the funds on as part of the LLC, you will be fined or at least audited and then possibly fined. Cashing out Bitcoin requires that you pay taxes on it, especially since you were not an LLC when you did so. With the controversy of what has happened, do not be naive enough to think someone is not going to report you in hopes you do get audited and caught with your pants down. AGAIN, seek legal aide ASAP for your share holder's sake.
With all that said, I hope this goes well and an amicable solution can be arrived at... there is nothing worse than bad publicity before a product can even get off the ground.
~Daemon
While I am content to keep 10 shares in the auction site... there are a few things which are going to haunt this venture for a long time...
1. Justin, you may have the LLC and Trademark because you filed first, but any case opened will reveal through investigation what the timeline was and how things transpired... there is a possibility that 10% allocated is not enough and a suit would reward the plaintiff with a much more substantial amount... do your due diligence and get some representation to at least give you a bit of sound legal advice regarding this before you get too far in to minimize the damage.
2. It is now public record that you used funds generated by shares you sold that were allotted to you at the beginning of the project. With you filing an LLC AFTER the fact, you still have some liability to have used those funds responsibly for the company and not personal maters. What is transcribed in the Skype conversation is very worrying, and damaging... should someone bring a suit against you or bring a government entity into the picture, you will be hard pressed to show you used the raised funds accordingly, and may find yourself dealing with even more of a mess than just arguing over ownership and profit sharing. Again, you need to seek out some legal aide to define your position and help you understand these mistakes and what you can do about them.
3. Bitcoin is taxable, which means what you spent needs to be reported properly, and if you are not attempting to claim the physical property you spent the funds on as part of the LLC, you will be fined or at least audited and then possibly fined. Cashing out Bitcoin requires that you pay taxes on it, especially since you were not an LLC when you did so. With the controversy of what has happened, do not be naive enough to think someone is not going to report you in hopes you do get audited and caught with your pants down. AGAIN, seek legal aide ASAP for your share holder's sake.
With all that said, I hope this goes well and an amicable solution can be arrived at... there is nothing worse than bad publicity before a product can even get off the ground.
~Daemon
Interesting points raised Daemon...
Am I correct in thinking that in this case, one person hired another person to program the website and that it can be described as her project (ie a boss hiring a rent-a-coder)?
Am I also correct in thinking that after the boss and the rent-a-coder fell out without each other, the rent-a-coder hired to program the website for reasons not fully explained has filed to register the name as Trademark first, even though he was an employee of the boss and a part of the project. And somehow he has access to funds as well?
If I have it wrong, someone please feel free to inform us all.
If I have it correct, then it would seem difficult to comprehend that in essence, somehow, a rent-a-coder has taken over a whole project (including investor funding) which he was supposed to be hired just to code. In that case the boss would still own all copyright code (except for the original sub-standard turnkey template website).
Probably best for everyone to stay clear of this project because if there is money involved then surely the project owner/boss would not let this go. I see a possible litigation on the horizon and would advise everyone to NOT invest and furthermore I would advise everyone who has invested to do the following things:
1) Ask for your money to be returned
2) Ask exactly how your investment is/was being used and 'invested'
3) Write to the person who originally started this project and ask her if she were still in-charge of the project how would your investment be used and 'invested'
4) Under no circumstances invest nor re-invest in this project until there is clarity as to who owns it and where it is going. You will probably have to wait for the outcome of a court case since neither party seems to be backing down.
I have hired coders to work on my projects in the past and made it clear that I own the code they write. If any rent-a-coder decided he was going to take over one of my projects because he did not like my strategy then I would remove him and continue with another rent-a-coder. If any rent-a-coder stole my ideas, registered a similar domain and/or trademark and then used a copy of my purchased code to create a competing website, I would not hesitate to go to court. I am not saying that anything like that has happened here but the situation is dire especially as far as withdrawals of investors funds is concerned and that could open up a whole new legal issue.
Stay away from this guys, at least until the law makes it clear who owns which part of this project and then use your initiative and decide if you feel on a moral basis you can invest and/or use the website after you know which party will be running it.
This is all a bit too much to handle honestly...
While I am content to keep 10 shares in the auction site... there are a few things which are going to haunt this venture for a long time...
1. Justin, you may have the LLC and Trademark because you filed first, but any case opened will reveal through investigation what the timeline was and how things transpired... there is a possibility that 10% allocated is not enough and a suit would reward the plaintiff with a much more substantial amount... do your due diligence and get some representation to at least give you a bit of sound legal advice regarding this before you get too far in to minimize the damage.
2. It is now public record that you used funds generated by shares you sold that were allotted to you at the beginning of the project. With you filing an LLC AFTER the fact, you still have some liability to have used those funds responsibly for the company and not personal maters. What is transcribed in the Skype conversation is very worrying, and damaging... should someone bring a suit against you or bring a government entity into the picture, you will be hard pressed to show you used the raised funds accordingly, and may find yourself dealing with even more of a mess than just arguing over ownership and profit sharing. Again, you need to seek out some legal aide to define your position and help you understand these mistakes and what you can do about them.
3. Bitcoin is taxable, which means what you spent needs to be reported properly, and if you are not attempting to claim the physical property you spent the funds on as part of the LLC, you will be fined or at least audited and then possibly fined. Cashing out Bitcoin requires that you pay taxes on it, especially since you were not an LLC when you did so. With the controversy of what has happened, do not be naive enough to think someone is not going to report you in hopes you do get audited and caught with your pants down. AGAIN, seek legal aide ASAP for your share holder's sake.
With all that said, I hope this goes well and an amicable solution can be arrived at... there is nothing worse than bad publicity before a product can even get off the ground.
~Daemon
While I am content to keep 10 shares in the auction site... there are a few things which are going to haunt this venture for a long time...
1. Justin, you may have the LLC and Trademark because you filed first, but any case opened will reveal through investigation what the timeline was and how things transpired... there is a possibility that 10% allocated is not enough and a suit would reward the plaintiff with a much more substantial amount... do your due diligence and get some representation to at least give you a bit of sound legal advice regarding this before you get too far in to minimize the damage.
2. It is now public record that you used funds generated by shares you sold that were allotted to you at the beginning of the project. With you filing an LLC AFTER the fact, you still have some liability to have used those funds responsibly for the company and not personal maters. What is transcribed in the Skype conversation is very worrying, and damaging... should someone bring a suit against you or bring a government entity into the picture, you will be hard pressed to show you used the raised funds accordingly, and may find yourself dealing with even more of a mess than just arguing over ownership and profit sharing. Again, you need to seek out some legal aide to define your position and help you understand these mistakes and what you can do about them.
3. Bitcoin is taxable, which means what you spent needs to be reported properly, and if you are not attempting to claim the physical property you spent the funds on as part of the LLC, you will be fined or at least audited and then possibly fined. Cashing out Bitcoin requires that you pay taxes on it, especially since you were not an LLC when you did so. With the controversy of what has happened, do not be naive enough to think someone is not going to report you in hopes you do get audited and caught with your pants down. AGAIN, seek legal aide ASAP for your share holder's sake.
With all that said, I hope this goes well and an amicable solution can be arrived at... there is nothing worse than bad publicity before a product can even get off the ground.
~Daemon
As an investor, I am pretty disappointed in this.
I guess I should of just asked this before but where exactly are you going to be able to buy/sell these shares? (IPO investment site, havelockinvestments, cryptostocks.com etc???)
That way there is liquidity and also for those people who aren't happy with what just transpired can buy/sell the shares at their discretion.
Lets see how things unfold in this situation. We are adults and we all share a common goal, crypto's success and adoption, let's not lose site of that.
I guess I should of just asked this before but where exactly are you going to be able to buy/sell these shares? (IPO investment site, havelockinvestments, cryptostocks.com etc???)
That way there is liquidity and also for those people who aren't happy with what just transpired can buy/sell the shares at their discretion.
Lets see how things unfold in this situation. We are adults and we all share a common goal, crypto's success and adoption, let's not lose site of that.
I have no idea who the main players who claim ownership of this auction site are because I never dealt with either of them, but a word of caution to all investors.
It is clear there are claims and counter claims and there is money involved. Both parties have different version of events and regardless of what may or may not have happened, it is best that everyone stays well clear of getting involved and investing until this matter is sorted out amicably by both parties.
From what I read on this thread and reading the skype transcript, the general tone of the words being written here as well as the skype thread it seems obvious which party I believe is telling the truth and I leave it to you to make up your mind but if the main parties sort this out before people invest it would be better for everyone all round as everyone can start with a clean slate.
It is clear there are claims and counter claims and there is money involved. Both parties have different version of events and regardless of what may or may not have happened, it is best that everyone stays well clear of getting involved and investing until this matter is sorted out amicably by both parties.
From what I read on this thread and reading the skype transcript, the general tone of the words being written here as well as the skype thread it seems obvious which party I believe is telling the truth and I leave it to you to make up your mind but if the main parties sort this out before people invest it would be better for everyone all round as everyone can start with a clean slate.
i want to buy 1 share.
I suggest you wait to see how this unfolds before investing ..... I already have 65 shares but I'm not sure what I have 65 shares of
Agreed. Shares are closed until release.
i want to buy 1 share.
I suggest you wait to see how this unfolds before investing ..... I already have 65 shares but I'm not sure what I have 65 shares of
i want to buy 1 share.
How to buy shares? how to pay?
To buy shares you must state in the thread how many you want. We currently have only 100 left and may only have 400 sold in total.
To repeat and sum up "all share sales may stop after 400 forever"
How to buy shares? how to pay?
Keep your trash out of here Cassie. You were talking about dumping all of the people who invested. You don't give a single dime of care towards anything.
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