Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees - page 699. (Read 704406 times)

Many people buy Bitcoin n store it as value, therefore, not much care if transaction fees $5-20,
but for those who send small amount, transactions fees is quite high.

LOL, not so much a Bitcoin Defender (I know it has its problems -- that's why I also own ETH, DASH, and others) but I can't stand to see stupid FUD about BTC by idiots trying to promote BCH.  Even the stuff that they get right is extremely misleading.  BCH has created a profitable situation, and everybody should maximize their BCH profits while they still can.  This includes miners and hodlers.  Miners should mine BCH while it's still profitable (probably won't be after next BCH adjustment).  Hodlers should sell their BCH.  It's free money that idiots are giving you.  You should take it while you can.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6vxdng/antpool_is_actively_sabotaging_bitcoin

It also costs $5 to send $20,000... there's a LOT of function in that!

Look, nobody controls how much BTC is worth.  A year ago when BTC was worth $500 or less, we're not having this conversation.  But I think we can all agree that the price of BTC going up is a good thing, right?  Yes, it presents some challenges.  Yes, some things that Bitcoin was used for previously, it's no longer practical to do so.  Same thing with gold coins.  Even a small gold coin (1/10 ounce) is impractical to use for most transactions nowadays.  But nobody's griping about that... anybody with gold coins is happy to keep them, or trade them for silver or fiat when they need to be used for smaller transactions.

And I'm not arguing that the block size shouldn't be bigger.  I think it should.  I think that SegWit solves part of the problem and also unlocks new opportunities.  If I had to vote, I would probably vote for SegWit2x.  However, I don't have any power, and I can see what way the winds are blowing.  I can see how all of the other BTC spin-offs have fared.  I can see how Ethereum Classic ended up.  I know how miners work (back when I was an SHA256 miner, I switched from BTC mining to MazaCoin mining because it was nearly 100x as profitable for a day or two).  I can see how this is trending.  There are no transactions on the BCH network -- most of the blocks just have a couple of transactions -- while Bitcoin is filling up every block.  What's useful is what's getting used.  BTC is getting used, BCH is not.  BCH will never catch on, and BCH supporters should be thankful that the majority of Bitcoin holders are either oblivious or scared to claim and sell their BCH while it is still high; the vast majority of "airdropped" BCH is still unclaimed.

The fact is, after a couple of days BCH will have a hard time being as profitable as BTC to mine.  At that point, the free-agent miners will abandon BCH.  It will basically be a single miner providing network security for BCH.  How is that any different than fiat, or credit cards?  How is it any better than LTC or DASH, both of which have faster blocks, lower fees, and actual distributed mining power?  Not to mention, a good track record in the top 10 cryptocurrencies?

I'm not arguing that BTC is without its problems, but BCH is an obvious scam.  It's a shot across the bow to the Bitcoin Core developers (and I'm not saying it's not needed!) but ultimately it is doomed to fail.  You should all do what I did: cash out your ~14% (20% in my case) "interest" in your Bitcoins, and move along.

This coin is mainly being promoted by;

Craig Wright: Claims himself to be satoshi without any proof.
Roger Ver: Went to prison for selling illegal explosives. Can't go to USA. Toxic to bitcoin for a very long time. Wants his own coin with the name of "bitcoin"
Jihan Wu: Owns Antpool, viabtc and every major mining pool. Has patents of ASICBOOST, and his products have a trojan horse, Antbleed.

If these are good news to you, go ahead buy in tons.

The miners said to adopt segwit and then to not use it?

Mempool is full,
Fees are high,
because we are being betrayed and bitcoin is being sabotaged by the miners.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6vxe1c/the_first_block_mined_in_over_an_hour_is_an_empty/

And that's not today's thing. It's been like this for decades.

There was a time when these were not 'normal fees':

You just said that bitcoin is unpractical, expensive and will never be a coin in the real world.

You are the worse bitcoin's defender that i ever meet.

so when is the next block adjustment?
bitcoin suppose to increase in price as November is near, free airdrop Bitcoin hard fork?
Bch might benefit miners short term, but what about long term? Btc withstands many competitions in the past n now being recognized more world wide. If you ask people what bitcoin cash is? they might be like huh?

It costs some $5 to send $15, where is the function in that?
That transactions are confirmed quickly is subjective but do not satisfy my defining of quickly.

You make some valid points, but I feel like it's convoluted intentionally because something deeper is going on, and it is all pointing to rising fees and smaller blocks, how does that solve rising fees and long lead time?

I'm not talking retail transactions, I'm talking sending money to a wallet, what is an acceptable wait time and cost for what kind of transaction.

I feel as if the scope of who Bitcoin should function for "from the perspective of the team behind current BTC" does not fit in the "little guy"... wherever that threshold lies.

BCH held solid at or above 0.06 for 12 days since "crashing" after the initial pump. It has not seen levels this low since increasing value. In fact, one could argue that even at such dramatic volume drop off (for how long, services increase use will increase) that the value has held pretty solid.

The full mempool argument is pure FUD.  It's due to empty blocks by attacking miners, who I'm sure are also contributing to the problem by spamming the network with no-fee dust transactions.  Anybody who does a normal transaction with normal fees gets confirmed quickly.

BCH is in a death spiral.  Volume is way down, transactions are practically 0, price is headed down.  It's barely more profitable than BTC at the moment, and that's before the difficulty adjusts way back up.  Glad I got out near the peak.

$20 is a micropayment of something that is worth $4500.  People don't try to pay for gasoline with ounces of gold, or shares of Berkshire Hathaway.  

SegWit will make for easier transfers from BTC to LTC and other coins with quicker block times that you can use to pay for your gas.  BTC's 10 minute blocks are never going to be great for retail transactions, even if they are bigger blocks.  

Remember, block creation is a stochastic process, designed to produce a block every 10 minutes *on average* but there's no way of predicting how fast they will actually come.  Even under normal times (not periods like the current hashpower manipulation) it is perfectly possible to have a Bitcoin block that takes over 30 minutes or even an hour to find.  On the other hand, there are many times where consecutive blocks are found within seconds of each other.  Bitcoin is never going to be a completely predictable payment network like a credit card company.  Off-chain transactions on the Lightning Network could be, however.

As a form of function it makes PayPal attractive.

I don't consider $20 a micro payment either, I consider $20 equivalent of btc to be a normative payment. Sub $1 is micro payments, sub 1 cent is a micro payment.

$20 is a tip, a dinner bill, a monthly payment, a tank of gas.

Sending $20 is now impossible on the BTC fork. Unless you're willing to send $34 to pay $20 or receive $6 instead of $20.  

Does security not relate to the integrity of the block structure at all and the implications of segwit? 

Its not usable for micro payment.

Security is a function of the hashrate (among other parameters). In terms of that, BCC is absolutely tiny compared to BTC.

That's a really poorly written article, the argument is basically "BCH fails becuz MANIPULATION" over and over. The author has no background on the difficulty adjustment algos out there - many coins now adjust the difficulty on EVERY BLOCK, specifically to AVOID miner manipulation. So his conclusion is exactly 100% wrong.

The EDA (Emergency Difficulty Adjustment) can cause a fluctuating hashrate, so what?  The block times for BCH can vary, again, so what? The point is, the blocks are NOT FULL and the FEES ARE FAR LOWER on BCH.

The full mempool and decreasing block times for BTC lead to a death spiral if the diff is not adjusted soon enough. And those weaknesses are plain to see right now.

Last week, BTC almost ground to a halt due to the hashpower shifts. The miners essentially "issued a warning". The BCH blockchain is longer now.


Kore and Blockstream are in way over their heads, they're clueless clowns at this point.

Well so far more stayed this time than last because BCH only gained a small profibility boost the difficulty will rise by 300% again in the next day or so and most if not all will switch back until the EDA kicks in but it will now need to drop further to be profitable so if things keep repeating like this you will get to the point of going through a full difficulty cycle in under 24h while the BTC difficulty slowly drops.

Like I've said before the BCH difficulty will get to the point it's so low any miner will be able to donate a small amount of hashing power to stop the EDA happening and making BCH very highly unprofitable

Right now it's all speculation but that's how I see it being played out

Yet the unconfirmed pool grows, and how long will the hash stay with BTC until the EDA swings it back to BCH favor, this is an interesting chess match and I enjoy reading the theories and comments.