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Topic: [ANN] BitShares 2.0 Pitchfork Date is October 13, 2015 (Read 3772 times)

newbie
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
What's really got us all excited is that once the snapshot happens users will have two choices, they can continue on the BTS 1.0 chain as we plan on keeping it alive, or they can move to the new and therefore better BTS 2.0 chain.

Applesauce

hero member
Activity: 710
Merit: 500
OK. Thanks. Still no unconvoluted description there, but the console commands I gleaned from it helped.

So "The merger" allocated me an additional 1K BTS (vs 31K original sharedrop - 0.02256 BTC at today's moderately inflated rates)...whoopee fucking do! Not exactly what I imagined when I envisioned the potential of decentralized autonomous companies and my continued stake in their development via AGS.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1018
Yeah. I still don't know what this means. I was AGS holder, received BTS in initial sharedrop, sold BTS, my wallet also shows a few NOTE/TEST NOTE now. I have spent hours trawling through bitsharestalk trying to understand the "merger" but the level of convolution has my head in knots.  Please just tell me, as an AGS holder, will I receive (or should I have received) additional BTS/BTSX after the initial share drop? If so, when how? And how do I get VOTE/DNS etc.?

Strange, it's quite easy to find at https://bitsharestalk.org

One of the topic which described merger allocation BTSX/VOTE/DNS:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10279.html

Re: Please refresh my memory re: merger
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16907.msg216266.html#msg216266

If you have AGS, you should also get some PLS from Play DAC:
PTS wallet import
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15501

PS: If you can't find something and expect fast answer, ask at https://bitsharestalk.org
hero member
Activity: 710
Merit: 500
Exactly.  This Grand Compromise has been settled since last fall, I'm surprised this ancient history is coming up again now.  Here's a summary for those who may have forgotten (or those just becoming aware of our amazing first two years):

AGS was a 200 day opportunity to donate to get on a "mailing list" for free shares in new DACs.  Each day was a donation competition for a fixed number of credits for that day.  When a new DAC was launched, its developer would take a "snapshot" of who had donated as of a certain announced date and give them "free samples" of shares in the genesis block of the new DAC.  The first snapshot was on 2/28 for the genesis block of BTSX.  Prior to 2/28 everyone knew that BTSX would only go to people who donated up to that snapshot - by definition.   After 2/28 everyone knew they were donating to support the remaining DACs in the pipeline (and getting less competition for those AGS because of that).  So, each new snapshot fixes the owners for that DAC and donors after these snapshots know that shares in past DACs are no longer part of the deal.  This has happened for BTSX, VOTE, DNS, MUSIC, PLAY and recently Identabit DACs, each sponsored by a different independent entrepreneur who had agreed to play by the same rules.

So when you say "two AGS's" you are missing the fact that there are "multiple AGSs", depending on how many snapshots were in the past on each of the 200 days people donated.  That fact entered into everybody's calculation for how much they wanted to donate, effectively letting folks get more AGS for the same sized donations in the latter days.  So, the later you donated the more AGS credit you got but the fewer DACs remained eligible for the giveaway promotion.

So I hope that answers your question, "How can pre 28/2 investor have bigger stake in future DACs than post 28/2 investors."  

They don't.  Post 2/28 donors got a bigger stake in fewer DACS - exactly the way everyone knew it would work.

Until the merger gave them a better deal - a stake in BTSX too.

When pre 2/28 donations ran out, we felt obligated to move on to developing the other DACs that AGS donors were expecting, but BTSX wasn't perfected.  Without its success, it was clear that the other DACs in the pipeline would suffer with BTSX if we left it forever in that state.  Further the other DACs would wind up implementing their own stabilized smartcoins that would compete with BTSX resulting in fratricide and diluted network effect.  So we realized that the only way to finish all DACs in a way that would be both successful and fair to all is to merge as many as possible into one SuperDAC - killing many birds with one stone.  

That was necessary, but painful, and resulted in
the Grand Merger Compromise of 2014:  

After the merger of all stakeholders that were willing and able to merge into the new BTS SuperDAC (BTSX+VOTE+DNS+AGS+PTS), we negotiated a compromise between holders of BTSX and holders of AGS/PTS:  BTSX holders would (barely) tolerate a two-year vesting dilution to (a) give AGS/PTS holders a stake in BTS (b) eliminate fratricide (c) gain access to continuing developer support for a common chain, and (d) become the new consensus share drop target.  Everybody got a somewhat smaller percentages of a much bigger DAC.  That's how mergers work.

So, no matter when in those 200 days you donated, you now have shares in all those promised DACs which is now able to grow and succeed where before it wasn't.  
 
Everybody hates compromises because by definition they have to give something up for a greater objective.  But without compromise, the whole project would have failed and everyone would wind up with nothing.  Was it perfect?  No, there was no single closed form solution and every new BTS stakeholder sees it differently when they crank in their own numbers.  

But because we didn't give up,
we now are able to launch the amazing industrial strength BitShares 2.0 "Super Duper" DAC
in just 32 days.

This has been an exercise in willingness to find a way to succeed in the middle of the Great Crypto Depression which had cut the legs out from under our planned funding strategy.

It wasn't pretty, but we all made it!



Yeah. I still don't know what this means. I was AGS holder, received BTS in initial sharedrop, sold BTS, my wallet also shows a few NOTE/TEST NOTE now. I have spent hours trawling through bitsharestalk trying to understand the "merger" but the level of convolution has my head in knots.  Please just tell me, as an AGS holder, will I receive (or should I have received) additional BTS/BTSX after the initial share drop? If so, when how? And how do I get VOTE/DNS etc.?
newbie
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
What's really got us all excited is that once the snapshot happens users will have two choices, they can continue on the BTS 1.0 chain as we plan on keeping it alive, or they can move to the new and therefore better BTS 2.0 chain. All of this is in anticipation of the upcoming BTS 3.0 chain where we add 1.0 to 2.0 to get the 3.0 chain.

We've been approached by both SunnyKing and BcNxt about how they can port their inferior POS chains to our new chain in anticipation of merging them with BTS 3.0.

Expect to get rich here folks as we just made all other crypto currencies irrelevant.

Applesauce
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 504
The BitShares 2.0 chain has been optimized for real time operation and so it has a completely new format.  ("Real time" means "able to keep up with real world events and respond in time to influence them.")

The "snapshot" just means initializing the new chain to match the information contained in the old chain when it reaches a specified block.

There are two quoted transactions per second numbers:  "measured" and "at scale".  The 1000 TPS measured right now is limited first by our ability to load it, so we have everybody firing all they have at the test network which is running on ordinary commodity grade processors.  

The "at scale" benchmark of 100,000 TPS is based on lab tests of the main non-parallelizable serial thread which also achieved that rate on ordinary commodity grade hardware. However, the initial network will not start out paying for enough parallel front end (ordinary commercial grade) hardware to feed 100,000 transactions into the serial thread until we need it.  By that time, the fees that much traffic would generate would easily cover the costs of gradual addition of more transaction stream aggregation processors to keep Graphene's 100,000 TPS serial fire hose fed.  (And since any competent person that gets elected to sign blocks (solely based on reputation) will receive sufficient funds directly from system revenues to pay for their hardware at any scale, this can not be said to centralize on wealthy owners of specialized barrier-to-entry hardware farms in any way.  Anyone can lease the equipment they need while they remain elected and therefore receiving funds to cover their expenses.)

As it is, the current test system demonstrates that the Oct 13 release will start out with the ability to process the combined transaction rates of every coinmarketcap.com blockchain (including Bitcoin) if they all moved their ledgers onto the BitShares platform (which they, of course, should). This seems like it ought to be all the node hardware BitShares needs to pay for on Day One.

Smiley

sr. member
Activity: 289
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024
because the new wallet is a web wallet (like Counterparty's).  They will just have to import their keys (from the existing 0.9.3 wallet) into the new web wallet or downloadable client which will be released later.

Ok sweet, thanks everyone for helping answer all my questions Smiley
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024
they will have to run the new wallet, but their balances will all be there

How come it mentions about taking a snapshot on Tuesday then if you are just supposed to run the new wallet?
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024
Man this Graphene Wallet looks sick, can't wait to try it out.

So how does Bitshares manage bloat with 100,000 transactions per second and 3 second Blocktimes?

With 3 second block it's will be 33 000 transactions per second, as I know later this year it's will be upgraded to 1 second block after block propagation code will be optimized (today BitShares use more or less same block propagation method as Bitcoin).

So what does that mean about the amount of Bloat incurred over time? Is there some kind of pruning method? or does it keep the entire Blockchain in it's entirety as in BitCoin? What does that mean for node holders? Will they sport GB-TB's of data?

there's a blog about TPS: https://bitshares.org/blog/2015/06/08/measuring-performance/

should answer your questions

So Bitshares is going to do a snapshot to move onto Bitshares2.0? How would that affect exchanges?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
Man this Graphene Wallet looks sick, can't wait to try it out.

So how does Bitshares manage bloat with 100,000 transactions per second and 3 second Blocktimes?

With 3 second block it's will be 33 000 transactions per second, as I know later this year it's will be upgraded to 1 second block after block propagation code will be optimized (today BitShares use more or less same block propagation method as Bitcoin).

So what does that mean about the amount of Bloat incurred over time? Is there some kind of pruning method? or does it keep the entire Blockchain in it's entirety as in BitCoin? What does that mean for node holders? Will they sport GB-TB's of data?

there's a blog about TPS: https://bitshares.org/blog/2015/06/08/measuring-performance/

should answer your questions
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024
Man this Graphene Wallet looks sick, can't wait to try it out.

So how does Bitshares manage bloat with 100,000 transactions per second and 3 second Blocktimes?

With 3 second block it's will be 33 000 transactions per second, as I know later this year it's will be upgraded to 1 second block after block propagation code will be optimized (today BitShares use more or less same block propagation method as Bitcoin).

So what does that mean about the amount of Bloat incurred over time? Is there some kind of pruning method? or does it keep the entire Blockchain in it's entirety as in BitCoin? What does that mean for node holders? Will they sport GB-TB's of data?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1018
Man this Graphene Wallet looks sick, can't wait to try it out.

So how does Bitshares manage bloat with 100,000 transactions per second and 3 second Blocktimes?

With 3 second block it's will be 33 000 transactions per second, as I know later this year it's will be upgraded to 1 second block after block propagation code will be optimized (today BitShares use more or less same block propagation method as Bitcoin).
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024
Man this Graphene Wallet looks sick, can't wait to try it out.

So how does Bitshares manage bloat with 100,000 transactions per second and 3 second Blocktimes?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
exporting and importing the graphene wallet to my mobile was surprisingly easy and without a problem.


https://plus.google.com/109380272839829509328/posts/gaCv5V1RwM3
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 504
So apparently there are 2,511,953,117 bitshares in existence currently.

The current price is hovering between 1.5k-2.5k satoshis.

Does that not seem a little inflated? I would expect the price to be a lot less. Could anyone help me understand the price justification? It seems somewhat fixed, I would think there are some wallets with millions that are frozen or something. But then again, BTS is one of the most prominent altcoins that regularly holds >$100k daily volume.

I haven't been part of the community long, considering investing some money into this project but I can't seem to find any justification for the price. I appreciate any insight, it's just hard to believe an altcoin with this many units in supply can be this valued.. although i do see the value. DPoS model seems to be what banks are going to utilize.

Compare the value to those above it in the market.

The world's first self-governing, industrial grade, real-time block chain.
It can interact with the other side of the planet at NASDAQ-class speeds.

It's not just a coin, it's a platform for implementing many coins.
It's not just a decentralized exchange, it's a platform for networking many exchanges.

It has powerful referral incentives for many companies to sign up all their customers.
It's about to be sharedropped on by two other real time chains at random dates this fall.

And 99.9999% of the world doesn't even know about it yet.

Just sayin'
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100


Well Scooby Doo can Doo Doo

But Jimmy Carter is smarter
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 504
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
Nothing like continually changing the social contract, right stan?

With all of that brain power yall claim, you guys sure are short sighted on your designs, always changing it cause you fucked it up everytime and need a new fix and newbmoney to pay for the old mistakes.

Hence punky and brain.

Try fail

Try Fail

FAIL

FAIL

(Pitch fork event?)


I have always enjoyed your humor.  Smiley

Now back to business. How post 28/2 investors could react. They can't sell. Yes they are receiving BTS dust but at the same time their shardrop target became unrecognizable. What did they get for their million USD. You know better then me that your influence is crucial when somebody making decision how to optimize his sharedrop.

"Identabit will drop 20% onto BTS and PTS/AGS holders will get their share that way. All square."

How can you say all square like some dictator. What share will post 28/2 AGS investors get? Did you put that on paper. They didn't recived all their BTS and even if they do, they will still getting smaller percentage than others investors.

BTSX holder did not expect to become sharedrop target, AGS are!

I don't need answer to my question. I know it is all over.

Good luck.
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