[ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision - page 17.

Bitcoin SV (BSV)

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Another exciting #BSVblockchain meetup coming up!

Sign up now to attend the Chicago #BitcoinSV Meetup hosted by
@KurtWuckertJr on Monday, July 5, at 11:00am (CDT).

Attend online: https://www.meetup.com/chicago_bitcoin/events/mdgzhsycckbhb/

Source: https://bitcoinassociation.net/bsv-meetups/

kna

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Activity: 13

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Quote from: Farmer Bill on June 29, 2021, 02:22:03 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bitcoinPsycho on June 29, 2021, 12:19:13 PM

Bsv -7% BTC +5%

it appears that the market(and everyone else)knows something you fans of bsv don't Cheesy

Are you paid to be such a jerk or does it come naturally to you?

^^^^^^ You could have picked any shitcoin at random 12 months ago and it would have outperformed by a magnitude BSV's -1.9% on the year in $ terms.^^^^^^

When you're passionate about something, you don't count. No trading here, this place is all about innovation, technological advancement and real Bitcoin. You would know that if Bitcoin were your real passion and not your golden goose consideration.

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BSV: Big blocks, big vision, big data—with the original promise

Four years after a software hard fork split Bitcoin into “big block” and “small block” blockchains, BSV continues to prove all the “small blocker” arguments wrong. By sticking to Satoshi Nakamoto’s original vision and committing to unchangeable protocol rules from the original Bitcoin design, BSV is processing ever-larger amounts of data and keeping it secure, all on-chain.

The latest statistics show BSV is processing hundreds of thousands of transactions nearly every day. The data size of its blockchain surpassed BTC in early June 2021. Of the top 10 applications sending data to the BSV blockchain, only one of them represents a trading platform of any kind—most are games, social networks, and technical tools.

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Top 10 Biggest Blocks by kb on #Bitcoin #BSV

https://twitter.com/TaalBlockchain/status/1408818279766847492

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Top 10 Biggest Blocks by TX on #Bitcoin #BSV

https://twitter.com/TaalBlockchain/status/1408818279766847492

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Top 10 Fastest TX Speeds Ever (1 Block) #Bitcoin #BSV

https://twitter.com/TaalBlockchain/status/1408818279766847492

BSV and BTC each have a 43-45% share of all daily transactions on blockchains that trace their origins to Bitcoin’s “genesis block” back in 2009. Around 10% occur on BCH, a nominally big block implementation of Bitcoin but one whose protocol rules have deviated since, and development of speed and capacity has not evolved as far as BSV’s.

BSV’s existence, and its continued flaw-free ability to process massive amounts of data on-chain for negligible fees, serve as an embarrassment to BTC and any argument that transaction blocks should be small and expensive to confirm. For this reason, BSV is described variously as “failed,” “fake,” “scam”—or its existence ignored completely. These claims are provably untrue; blockchain records are public for all to see and BSV has a healthy, growing ecosystem of real-world applications with a variety of use cases. For a network with far less name recognition and one facing a constant barrage of negative PR from BTC bagholders, BSV is doing amazingly well.

Bitcoin was always meant to be this way

Satoshi originally designed Bitcoin to have unbounded, on-chain, scaling ability. “Temporary” limits were added later to reduce the likelihood of denial-of-service or spam attacks on the fledgling network. Before too long, though, it was clear many had decided these limits should be permanent. Companies had designed business models around the notion of 1MB block sizes and a forever-congested network. By 2017, the year of the hard fork, it was clear that keeping Bitcoin limited had become a kind of religion.

BTC then changed its fundamental protocol rules, weakening its security and transparency with segregated witness (SegWit) signatures and plans to process everyday payment transactions on separate networks. Despite promises that these would allow Bitcoin to scale, neither has been particularly successful at reducing congestion or fees on the BTC network. Use-cases for BTC as a payment system, its main reason for existing at all, have fallen away as app developers and merchants abandoned it in favor of networks that can actually process data.

Nowadays, only BSV adheres to Bitcoin’s original protocol rules, and has them “set in stone” so they can’t be changed at a whim by vested interests or centralized development teams like what we constantly see on BCH and BTC. The variety of projects in BSV’s ecosystem is proof of this, and developers are implementing all the ideas they had years ago but had shelved as Bitcoin’s “block size war” dragged on.

Meanwhile, BTC has struggled to convince anybody that it’s a serious alternative to the current monetary system. Its supporters focus instead on BTC’s speculative unit price, using memes like “laser eyes” to pretend price booms are a vote of confidence in BTC’s future utility, and not just hype. The sad truth is that BTC isn’t all that useful for anything, besides gambling with it on trading platforms against new bidders for central bank fiat currencies. With only enough capacity to handle 4-7 transactions per second on its network, it is plagued by long delays and fees that would make Western Union blush.

BSV’s fees are a fraction of a cent per transaction, making it cost-effective for data projects of any volume. Its use cases extend far beyond simple payments, and developers are now looking at enterprise-tier services that require no knowledge of Bitcoin or its workings by end users. At the same time, BSV still processes ordinary payment transactions with ease. It fulfills Bitcoin’s original promise while also looking far beyond it, making it the perfect data network for the future.

Watch: nChain’s Steve Shadders presents BSV Technical Update at CoinGeek Zurich

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yiF-4lKYzE

Source Jon Southurst https://coingeek.com/bsv-big-blocks-big-vision-big-data-with-the-original-promise/

kna

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 32

Quote from: $romain on June 29, 2021, 07:57:56 AM

Quote from: Ayazura on June 29, 2021, 06:42:48 AM

Quote from: $romain on June 28, 2021, 05:39:48 PM

Quote from: BSVfan on June 28, 2021, 05:12:02 PM

~~~ So... enlighten me!

Yes, Bitcoin code functionality has been hijacked: https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-behind-adam-back-and-blockstreams-attempts-to-constrain-bitcoin/

@nChainGlobal( the guardians) have restored all of Bitcoin's original functionality which is more than you might imagine. The name is Bitcoin Satoshi Vision. That's why #BSV is Bitcoin as Satoshi created it.

It's obvious that COPA crew Taproot update will want to fork and update the BTC code subcontracted with its crew Mastercard, Jack, Jayz and other greedy. Why do you think they are giving over 100 million in Africa to develop (copy) what already exists. that's why COPA was born, interested...

As you point out they don't have the nChain, scaling and Craig's patents... so they buy time to fucking. So the selfish forces in action to fuck up the world and spit on the very essence of what Bitcoin is, that's what these people do, they don't create utility, they make money in every way by any means, even the most disgusting.

Bitcoin was created to be used, not to sleep in a cold wallet for 150 years. Without unity Bitcoin will fail, they know it, governments, networks and central banks know it too. They just don't know how to stop it yet instead of embracing it and building it, so is the nonsense.

If COPA members were really enthusiasts as some claim (Jack Dorsey if you read me no one told you but you have semolina left in your beard) then they would come to Bitcoin using the restored BSV technology to participate in the active developments going on.

But what did you want to produce between COPA crew and Satoshi's honesty with this formal dissonance of intent? Maybe wasting court time instead of helping to build a better world with Satoshi and Bitcoin.

Forgive my ignorance but what is COPA? Why Craig Wright is not signing on to the Blockchain?

Your questions are relevant, do not be ashamed, on the contrary

Quote

Forgive my ignorance but what is COPA?

- COPA aka Crypto Open Patent Alliance is a collection of business companiess that act as a consortium to tries to decide/rule whether to make rain or shine on the work of others people.

In finality, COPA (Crypto Open Patent Alliance) is useless. Just a $$$ club that needs access to patents to lease them to each other (3 year commitment). Bitcoin doesn't need this consortium since the utility is already built, since the code has been cleaned up and handed over by nChain, which is why #BSV is #Bitcoin. Understand the original restored Satoshi Nakamoto code with all the features like complete turing.

Quote

Why Craig Wright is not signing on to the Blockchain?

- It seems that Craig Wright privately proved to a few people years ago. But then he took a step back to apparently focus on other things... While waiting.... Bitcoin has apparently continued to be manipulated / frankensteinised in its functionality stripped away over the years (SegWit update Blockstream COPA by as an example which conforms to BTC).

If Craig is indeed Satoshi, this also means that he is the "owner" of over 1,2 million Bitcoin and thousands of forks, since a very large number of existing cryptos are based on the Bitcoin code, each of which has stripped away the functionality of the original Bitcoin code in its own way, which amounts to a lot of money. Understand that if he were to move his treasure then the markets would be significantly impacted. And given the size of the amount he would be subject to specific & drastic economic rules (as he has already explained) since he would then have the power to act strongly on the markets or worse to sink them. So in order to avoid any kind of insider trading he will have to follow a precise protocol.

As he has repeatedly explained, he is willing to prove his identity as Satoshi Nakamoto, but not to the troll public but in court, if ordered to do so by the courts, and will no doubt act on the court's decisions. There is also his ownership of the white paper that is currently in play.

Thus a cohort of pathetic trolls cry "fraud and scam faketoshi blablabla"... disseminate hundreds of thousands of doctored pieces, change the contexts, deploy vicious stratagems, others utter abject insults on any support. By the way, as you know there are madmen on the internet, even Craig has had to protect his family on several occasions because he is the target of many psychos and other wacky individuals.

Understand that the technological and economic interests at stake are colossal, especially in the development of new markets, driving a technological breakthrough and incidentally other tax niches. There are also technological patents owned by nChain and Craig Wright that are the obvious target of several business associations and most certainly of the state.

This is why armies of corporate trolls, controlled media outlets and automated bots, and other fanatics (sometimes wearing hats) are trying to discredit nChain's work and disavow Dr. Craig Wright, his work, and his teams, even before the courts have ruled on a signing order.

🔴 If the trolls here and elsewhere were the genuine enthusiasts they claim to be then they would take off their brain-burning laser eyes and support real Bitcoin complet code aka BSV, the original from Satoshi Nakamoto. So go the human beings and their collections of vices. Everyone has to make up their own mind.

Concret example:

Source of screenshot: https://twitter.com/CryptoWhale/status/1409264204629135361/photo/1

$romain

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Activity: 4

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Quote from: Ayazura on June 29, 2021, 06:42:48 AM

Quote from: $romain on June 28, 2021, 05:39:48 PM

Quote from: BSVfan on June 28, 2021, 05:12:02 PM

~~~ So... enlighten me!

Yes, Bitcoin code functionality has been hijacked: https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-behind-adam-back-and-blockstreams-attempts-to-constrain-bitcoin/

@nChainGlobal( the guardians) have restored all of Bitcoin's original functionality which is more than you might imagine. The name is Bitcoin Satoshi Vision. That's why #BSV is Bitcoin as Satoshi created it.

It's obvious that COPA crew Taproot update will want to fork and update the BTC code subcontracted with its crew Mastercard, Jack, Jayz and other greedy. Why do you think they are giving over 100 million in Africa to develop (copy) what already exists. that's why COPA was born, interested...

As you point out they don't have the nChain, scaling and Craig's patents... so they buy time to fucking. So the selfish forces in action to fuck up the world and spit on the very essence of what Bitcoin is, that's what these people do, they don't create utility, they make money in every way by any means, even the most disgusting.

Bitcoin was created to be used, not to sleep in a cold wallet for 150 years. Without unity Bitcoin will fail, they know it, governments, networks and central banks know it too. They just don't know how to stop it yet instead of embracing it and building it, so is the nonsense.

If COPA members were really enthusiasts as some claim (Jack Dorsey if you read me no one told you but you have semolina left in your beard) then they would come to Bitcoin using the restored BSV technology to participate in the active developments going on.

But what did you want to produce between COPA crew and Satoshi's honesty with this formal dissonance of intent? Maybe wasting court time instead of helping to build a better world with Satoshi and Bitcoin.

Forgive my ignorance but what is COPA? Why Craig Wright is not signing on to the Blockchain?

Your questions are relevant, do not be ashamed, on the contrary

Quote

Forgive my ignorance but what is COPA?

- COPA aka Crypto Open Patent Alliance is a collection of business companiess that act as a consortium to tries to decide/rule whether to make rain or shine on the work of others people.

In finality, COPA (Crypto Open Patent Alliance) is useless. Just a $$$ club that needs access to patents to lease them to each other (3 year commitment). Bitcoin doesn't need this consortium since the utility is already built, since the code has been cleaned up and handed over by nChain, which is why #BSV is #Bitcoin. Understand the original restored Satoshi Nakamoto code with all the features like complete turing.

Quote

Why Craig Wright is not signing on to the Blockchain?

- It seems that Craig Wright privately proved to a few people years ago. But then he took a step back to apparently focus on other things... While waiting.... Bitcoin has apparently continued to be manipulated / frankensteinised in its functionality stripped away over the years (SegWit update Blockstream COPA by as an example which conforms to BTC).

If Craig is indeed Satoshi, this also means that he is the "owner" of over 1,2 million Bitcoin and thousands of forks, since a very large number of existing cryptos are based on the Bitcoin code, each of which has stripped away the functionality of the original Bitcoin code in its own way, which amounts to a lot of money. Understand that if he were to move his treasure then the markets would be significantly impacted. And given the size of the amount he would be subject to specific & drastic economic rules (as he has already explained) since he would then have the power to act strongly on the markets or worse to sink them. So in order to avoid any kind of insider trading he will have to follow a precise protocol.

As he has repeatedly explained, he is willing to prove his identity as Satoshi Nakamoto, but not to the troll public but in court, if ordered to do so by the courts, and will no doubt act on the court's decisions. There is also his ownership of the white paper that is currently in play.

Thus a cohort of pathetic trolls cry "fraud and scam faketoshi blablabla"... disseminate hundreds of thousands of doctored pieces, change the contexts, deploy vicious stratagems, others utter abject insults on any support. By the way, as you know there are madmen on the internet, even Craig has had to protect his family on several occasions because he is the target of many psychos and other wacky individuals.

Understand that the technological and economic interests at stake are colossal, especially in the development of new markets, driving a technological breakthrough and incidentally other tax niches. There are also technological patents owned by nChain and Craig Wright that are the obvious target of several business associations and most certainly of the state.

This is why armies of corporate trolls, controlled media outlets and automated bots, and other fanatics (sometimes wearing hats) are trying to discredit nChain's work and disavow Dr. Craig Wright, his work, and his teams, even before the courts have ruled on a signing order.

🔴 If the trolls here and elsewhere were the genuine enthusiasts they claim to be then they would take off their brain-burning laser eyes and support real Bitcoin complet code aka BSV, the original from Satoshi Nakamoto. So go the human beings and their collections of vices. Everyone has to make up their own mind.

Concret example:

Source of screenshot: https://twitter.com/CryptoWhale/status/1409264204629135361/photo/1

$romain

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 46

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Quote from: BSVfan on June 28, 2021, 05:12:02 PM

~~~ So... enlighten me!

Yes, Bitcoin code functionality has been hijacked: https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-behind-adam-back-and-blockstreams-attempts-to-constrain-bitcoin/

@nChainGlobal( the guardians) have restored all of Bitcoin's original functionality which is more than you might imagine. The name is Bitcoin Satoshi Vision. That's why #BSV is Bitcoin as Satoshi created it.

It's obvious that COPA crew Taproot update will want to fork and update the BTC code subcontracted with its crew Mastercard, Jack, Jayz and other greedy. Why do you think they are giving over 100 million in Africa to develop (copy) what already exists. that's why COPA was born, interested...

As you point out they don't have the nChain, scaling and Craig's patents... so they buy time to fucking. So the selfish forces in action to fuck up the world and spit on the very essence of what Bitcoin is, that's what these people do, they don't create utility, they make money in every way by any means, even the most disgusting.

Bitcoin was created to be used, not to sleep in a cold wallet for 150 years. Without unity Bitcoin will fail, they know it, governments, networks and central banks know it too. They just don't know how to stop it yet instead of embracing it and building it, so is the nonsense.

If COPA members were really enthusiasts as some claim (Jack Dorsey if you read me no one told you but you have semolina left in your beard) then they would come to Bitcoin using the restored BSV technology to participate in the active developments going on.

But what did you want to produce between COPA crew and Satoshi's honesty with this formal dissonance of intent? Maybe wasting court time instead of helping to build a better world with Satoshi and Bitcoin.

BSVfan

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Activity: 2

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The Crypto Open Patent Alliance (COPA) announced it has filed a lawsuit in the High Court of Justice in England and Wales, to declare that Dr. Craig S. Wright is not the author of the 2008 Bitcoin white paper. But rather than putting a stop to Dr. Wright’s claims as some hope, could it instead give Wright a chance to prove himself as Satoshi in court?

“We stand in support of the Bitcoin developer community and the many others who’ve been threatened for hosting the White Paper,” COPA wrote in a Twitter post earlier.

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COPA @opencryptoorg
Today, COPA initiated a lawsuit asking the UK High Court to declare that Mr. Craig Wright does not have copyright ownership over the Bitcoin White Paper. We stand in support of the Bitcoin developer community and the many others who've been threatened for hosting the White Paper.

https://twitter.com/opencryptoorg/status/1381642092624015360

COPA (sometimes also called the “Cryptocurrency Open Patent Alliance”) is a non-profit IP-pooling group formed by Jack Dorsey’s Square in September 2020. Its stated aim is to prevent “patent lockup” by companies claiming ownership of key blockchain-related concepts, that “stifle innovation.”

Coinbase joined Square as a COPA founding board member in December 2020. Other members include Kraken, SatoshiLabs, BitPay, BitBank, (Michael Saylor’s) MicroStrategy, and Blockstream. It also includes Paradigm, an investment fund founded by Sequoia Capital partner Matt Huang and Coinbase co-founder Fred Ehrsam.

After joining, COPA members are required to remain members for three years. Joining the alliance entitles a member to access the Shared Patent Library of foundational crypto patents (subject first to the approval of whoever holds the IP on a particular technology).

COPA members like Square, Coinbase and Blockstream have a clear financial interest in promoting the narrative that BTC (and not BSV) represents the “real Bitcoin.” Coinbase is also facing an upcoming IPO, and the intellectual property it owns would play a key role in valuing the company in its prospectus. Coinbase is noting that Dr. Wright’s identity as Satoshi Nakamoto is a key risk to their IPO and valuation. However, they are trying to sweep this under the rug and are hardly mentioning any of the cases. In downplaying this, they are potentially breaching some securities regulations and this could leave the directors of the company liable.

Disassociating the myth of “Satoshi Nakamoto” from the man Craig Wright is central to this narrative, given that Dr. Wright claims BTC Core developers have radically changed the original Bitcoin protocol, and are “spreading false propaganda” about its capabilities and purported limitations. Supporting BTC could potentially end up costing Coinbase billions of dollars, and the company’s entire value may be consumed in subsequent action—which could be why they want to promote the false status of BTC. highlight not only why the company needs BTC to succeed, but also why Satoshi’s identity is a risk to their business and that the IP rights of others and infringement claims against them may hinder their success.

BSV (Bitcoin SV) developers restored the Bitcoin Protocol to its original form and original transaction processing rules in January-February 2020. In this sense, only BSV represents Bitcoin and Bitcoin as it was originally promoted to the public. BTC does not follow the original protocol rules, and is thus not actually Bitcoin. BTC may have the “longest chain” as it often claims, but that chain is not Bitcoin’s.

Background to the copyright claim and reactions

Dr. Wright [url=https://coingeek.com/craig-wright-is-enforcing-copyright-claim-on-the-bitcoin-whitepaper/]registered copyright in the U.S. to the 2008 Bitcoin White Paper in May 2019, and, earlier this year, began to take legal action against sites and organizations that host the 2008 Bitcoin white paper without his consent. One of the groups targeted was Square’s blockchain development subsidiary, Square Crypto, which started hosting the white paper in response to cease and desist letters sent by Dr Wright’s lawyers to those sites and organizations.

While the 2019 registration covers the U.S., in the U.K. it’s not necessary to register a copyright—this is automatically granted with the act of creating a work.

Many BTC supporters who reacted to the news suggested it meant Dr. Wright was about to get his comeuppance for those legal threats, and for daring to claim copyright over the Bitcoin white paper in the first place.

Some also repeated the meme that Dr. Wright is doing all this to prevent people from reading the white paper… for some reason. On the contrary, Dr. Wright and BSV supporters would prefer more people to read the white paper, in order to see that BTC does not represent its vision.

What BTC supporters are not noticing (or are deliberately ignoring) is that Dr. Wright’s claim to have authored the Bitcoin white paper is a real one, and that he feels he has enough evidence to defend this claim in court. In fact, it’s highly likely that defending it in court is something he wants to do.

In the years since Dr. Wright was first revealed to be, and then “came out” as, Satoshi Nakamoto, no other person has put forward a credible claim to be Bitcoin’s creator.

As many pointed out when Dr. Wright initially registered his copyright claim, anyone can claim copyright over a piece of writing. The only way it can be officially challenged is if a third party makes the same claim and takes legal action against it.

So in launching its High Court action, COPA may be doing exactly as Dr. Wright wished. It’s worth noting that the definitions listed by COPA in their claim are erroneous and as a result, this introduces the ability to argue what bitcoin truly is and how it was hijacked.

The case may go on for some time, but Dr. Wright will be prepared to fight for as long as it takes.

Source Jon Southurst https://coingeek.com/coinbase-backed-copa-launches-action-against-bitcoin-inventor-craig-wright/

So as far as COPA is concerned, is it a group/club that centralizes blockchain patents but may have realized that they can't do anything without Craig Wright and nChain's patents?

Is that why they declared Satoshi Nakamoto a threat to their business? "In the documents the company released in February for its public debut, Coinbase said Satoshi Nakamoto - the pseudonym used by the individual or group of people who developed bitcoin - could cause significant damage to the company." https://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-creators-30-billion-destabilize-crypto-market-coinbase-risks-2021-2
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1679788/000162828021003168/coinbaseglobalincs-1.htm ?

Everyone saw the result of Coinbase going public, the people there all sold their shares as soon as they went public? a monumental dump
https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-insiders-dump-nearly-5-billion-in-coin-stock-shortly-after-listing

Apparently Blockstream seems to have hijacked Bitcoin to calibrate with its partners: https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-behind-adam-back-and-blockstreams-attempts-to-constrain-bitcoin/ ?

So... enlighten me!

$romain

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BSV Merkle Proof Standard published—but what does it mean?

The Merkle Proof Standard is important because it allows for easier interoperability in BSV payments, as well as providing a utility-driven platform for simple payment verification services on Bitcoin blockchain.

Source & read more at: https://coingeek.com/bsv-merkle-proof-standard-published-but-what-does-it-mean/

$romain

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UK COURT AWARDS BITCOIN CREATOR DEFAULT JUDGMENT IN BITCOIN COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT CLAIM

Anonymous Bitcoin blogger “Cøbra” stays in the shadows and fails to defend itself in the face of Dr Wright’s High Court claim.

London 28 June 2021 – London’s High Court today granted ONTIER LLP client and Bitcoin creator, Dr Craig Wright, default judgment in his copyright infringement action against ‘Cøbra’, the pseudonymous operator and publisher of the bitcoin.org website

Source & read more at: https://www.ontier.digital/post/uk-court-awards-bitcoin-creator-default-judgment-in-bitcoin-copyright-infringement-claim

It seems that Cøbra is happy to have lost in court, that's what he writes on his Twitter account

Quote

👋 Cøbra Maybe you can share a link to Satoshi's #Bitcoin #BSV white paper so that people can read it further?

Here is his address: https://craigwright.net/bitcoin-white-paper.pdf

Thank you for your understanding🎋

BSVfan

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It's official!

#BTC #NotYourWhitePaper #BTCisNOTBitcoin

$romain

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Upcoming BSV Hackathon webinar to walk developers through SPV and mAPI

The fourth Bitcoin SV Hackathon kicked off on June 14, with the participants having up to July 26 to come up with the next big application for the BSV blockchain. On June 24, participants will get the opportunity to further hone their skills as they continue in their development journey with a special hackathon-themed webinar.

The fourth Bitcoin SV Hackathon promises to be the most competitive one yet; the previous edition attracted over 400 participants from 75 countries.

https://twitter.com/BitcoinAssn/status/1406975692953337856

On June 24, these developers—and even those who aren’t participating in the hackathon—will have the opportunity to sharpen their skills with a 60-minute webinar, moderated by Jad Wahab, an R&D software engineer at nChain. Kapil Jain, a curriculum contributor at Bitcoin Association, will join Wahab during the Q&A session at the end of the webinar, allowing the developers to have some of their biggest questions addressed by two leading Bitcoin minds.

The webinar will focus on simplified payment verification (SPV) and the merchant API (mAPI). It comes just weeks after the BSV Infrastructure Team released v1.1.0 of SPV Channels CE. This finally brought functionality to mobile devices and allowed a new range of mobile applications for BSV applications. SPV, as Satoshi Nakamoto referred to it in Section 8th of the 2008 Bitcoin white paper, allows participants to verify transactions and prevent double spends without needing to download a complete record of the blockchain.

The Bitcoin SV Hackathon judges will be expecting the participants to include SPV in their applications.

While announcing the commencement of the fourth Bitcoin SV Hackathon, Shadders commented, “With this edition of the Hackathon, we’re putting that new ability [SPV Channels] front and centre, tasking our entrants with finding unique and innovative ways to utilise that service and deliver on the true peer-to-peer vision for Bitcoin”

The webinar will take place on June 24 at 4 p.m. (CEST). You can register here for free to learn more about SPV and mAPI.

Source https://coingeek.com/upcoming-bsv-hackathon-webinar-to-walk-developers-through-spv-and-mapi/

Bitcoin SV (BSV)

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Quote from: Bitcoin SV on June 22, 2021, 08:44:26 AM

~freak like ~ stupid ~ ~ blablabla

You ate tiger for breakfast again! Please, moderate your words, keep your calm Cool

#BSV is peaceful Wink

Quote

NOURIEL ROUBINI: WHAT BITCOIN MUST DO TO SURVIVE

Anticipation ran high for one of CoinGeek Zurich's panels after Economist Nouriel Roubini’s name came up in the list of speakers. Participants of the latest CoinGeek Conference wanted to hear what the noted Bitcoin sceptic would say and how he would interact with Bitcoin’s founder, Dr. Craig Wright. Charles Miller got ahold of Professor Roubini after that panel and talked about digital currencies with him in this week’s CoinGeek Conversations.

Known as "Dr. Doom" for his pessimistic predictions about the economy, Prof. Roubini right off the bat enumerated what he thinks of digital currencies, describing "pretty much every cryptocurrency I know" as "not a currency, not a unit of account, not a scalable means of payment widely used, is not a stable store of value" among other things.

During his keynote at CoinGeek Zurich, Prof. Roubini argued that digital currencies are weakened by a lack of regulation. In the interview by Charles, he added that an international agreement on regulating digital currencies is necessary to make sure that the ecosystem did not end up with a "law of the jungle."

But Prof. Roubini agrees with Dr. Wright on the pseudonymous nature of Bitcoin, given how law enforcement uses it to track down illegal activities making use of the digital currency as a means of financing.

This is how Prof. Roubini thinks digital currencies can survive: by embracing the rule of law. Combined with regulation, this will help prove the legitimacy of digital currencies, especially to legacy finance, and remove the stigma around Bitcoin as the currency of choice for criminals.

Listen to more of Prof. Roubini’s thoughts on Bitcoin in this week's episode of CoinGeek Conversations.

Enjoy the podcast https://youtu.be/VfUvcEbnCs0

Source: https://coingeek.com/nouriel-roubini-bitcoin-must-embrace-the-rule-of-law-video/

kna

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 32

Quote from: hv_ on June 22, 2021, 04:26:34 AM

BSV Power of Women

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRc5w0EZpl4

Thank goodness they are here, without these wonderful Ladies many things would be impossible, especially in the development and outreach of Bitcoin Satoshi Vision. Many thanks to all of them 🙏

Quote from: Cryptotourist on June 22, 2021, 03:03:34 AM

I can't believe you guys are still trying to scam noobs into a mega shitshow.
You may have - recently - deleted all my posts here, but hey, consider this one a fresh start. Grin

Hi Princess, so your BTC is collapsing so you're back to bring up the original BSV Bitcoin technology created by Satoshi thread? Grin

Welcome back! Where are your little friends the other screamers?! Why aren't they coming to the party? As usual, you're the gang scout...

If your previous writings have been deleted, it's undoubtedly because you're repeating the same crap over and over again! There must be nothing constructive in what you're spewing, I understand your condition, it leads to a kind of bulimia, but if you stick a cucumber up your ass again, it'll make a new cork, so it'll be fine.

No rip-off here, just the presentation of the elements that form the Bitcoin Satoshi Vision ecosystem the utility blockchain for Big Data!

See in this stream, there is only "the utility" put forward to build the world of tomorrow now. By the way, have you tried any of the many applications created with BSV? Some of them here https://metastore.app/ or if you really want to get started with Bitcoin Satoshi Vision then maybe this website can help you get started https://bsvquickstart.com/ ideal to discover Bitcoin Satoshi vision aka BSV ecosystem. As a reminder, Bitcoin was created to be used.

If you are looking for real scams then I invite you to come for check out what is going on around BTC the fake Bitcoin code, exchanges triping, enjoying the evidence is always a pleasure:

https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-behind-adam-back-and-blockstreams-attempts-to-constrain-bitcoin/

https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-tether-using-its-stablecoin-scam-to-exploit-el-salvador/

https://coingeek.com/is-coinbase-doomed-youtuber-techlead-explains-why/

https://coingeek.com/binance-scam-took-everything-says-youtuber-techlead/

https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-the-many-lawsuits-against-bitmex/

and precisely do not miss this link https://coingeek.com/?s=cartel

I look forward to reading your upcoming crap, to you & to your little girlfriends from "the Princess gang".

Be happy! Bisoo Bisoo Kiss

PS:

Don't worry... I haven't told anyone that your baldness is at its peak, if you put some oil on then you'll have a nice dickhead like Bezos Cheesy

$romain

newbie

Activity: 4

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Quote

The Original Bitcoin Protocol: What Is It and Why Does It Matter?

As Bitcoin creates waves, our team steps back to examine the origins of the cryptocurrency. Read our whitepaper preview and sign up to get the full report when it's made publicly available this summer.

Read more at https://www.mnp.ca/en/insights/directory/the-original-bitcoin-protocol-what-is-it-and-why-does-it-matter#

kna

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Activity: 13

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Quote

Bitcoin SV Infrastructure Team releases SPV Channels CE v1.1.0 introducing all-new mobile functionalities

ZUG, Switzerland, June 1, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Bitcoin Association, the Switzerland-based global industry organisation that works to advance business with the Bitcoin SV blockchain and BSV digital currency, today announces the release of SPV Channels CE v1.1.0 for the Bitcoin SV network. The update, which has been developed by Bitcoin Association's Bitcoin SV Infrastructure Team, introduces mobile client libraries with all-new functionalities, including push notifications for both iOS and Android devices. The release, including software development kits (SDKs) for both iOS and Android devices, is available for download now on GitHub at https://github.com/bitcoin-sv-specs/brfc-spvchannels

The SPV in SPV Channels stands for Simplified Payment Verification (SPV), which is the topic of section 8 of Satoshi Nakamoto's original Bitcoin white paper. In section 8, Nakamoto outlines how users can verify payments on the Bitcoin network without needing to run a full network node - an essential element to scaling the Bitcoin network and retaining full peer-to-peer functionalities.

SPV Channels facilitate always-on encrypted messaging channels between participants on the Bitcoin SV network and are a critical component for peer-to-peer transaction workflows. SPV Channels are asynchronous and require only an outbound connection, ensuring that secure communications between network participants are always viable – irrespective of whether participants are online or offline at a given moment.

Today's release introduces SPV Channels to mobile devices, with mobile client libraries that include full integration with both Android and iOS push message notification systems. This new functionality leverages the Firebase Cloud Messaging service and unlocks a host of new use cases for mobile applications by eliminating the need for devices to actively query for relevant updates, significantly reducing the resource requirements for mobile devices leveraging services on the Bitcoin network and engaging in peer-to-peer communications or transactions.

Full details of today's release can be found in the SPV Channels CE v1.1.0 release notes on bitcoinsv.io.

Speaking on today's release, Steve Shadders, Technical Director of the Bitcoin SV Infrastructure Team, said:

'When we first released SPV Channels to the world last October, we proved the viability of the service itself and demonstrated how these new capabilities could be used to create desktop applications that leverage the service. We saw real potential and utility for this service if it could be effectively integrated into mobile applications, but to create the best user experience possible and ensure that it was resource-efficient, delivering this functionality required a mechanism to natively integrate with push notifications on mobile. With today's release, the Bitcoin SV Infrastructure Team have delivered that functionality with a readymade SDK, introducing all-new functionalities for mobile devices and strengthening the Bitcoin network's ability to deliver true peer-to-peer transactions.'

Also commenting on today's release, Bitcoin Association Founding President Jimmy Nguyen, said:

"The Bitcoin SV Infrastructure Team continue to deliver on their mandate to offer the best blockchain platform for building large scale enterprise applications and supporting high volumes of user transactions. The new functionalities introduced with today's release are another service offered on the BSV network to support massive scaling for high transaction volume, in addition to improving accessibility to such services by reducing resource requirements and lowering the barriers to participation for consumers and developers alike. This is another step towards fulfilling the Simplified Payment Verification outlined in Satoshi Nakamoto's white paper and realising the Satoshi vision for a massively scaled Bitcoin network with high transaction volume and real utility."

Source https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitcoin-sv-infrastructure-team-releases-spv-channels-ce-v1-1-0-introducing-all-new-mobile-functionalities-301303106.html

Ayazura

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Activity: 5

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: hv_ on May 18, 2021, 02:30:40 AM

The manipulations are 'planned' ?

https://coingeek.com/crypto-crime-cartel-behind-adam-back-and-blockstreams-attempts-to-constrain-bitcoin/

Fascinating Shocked

Everything comes together in conflicts of interest!

BSVfan

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 33

Quote from: hv_ on June 18, 2021, 08:50:04 AM

rinse ... repeat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-whuXHSL1Pg

now many can see it

What happened in the last few days with Titan DeFi Token $56 to $0.0000048 in 5 hours (at -1000000%) sounds like a "style exercise"! May be happening to many other useless cryptos forged in lies including USDT.

BSVfan

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Quote

A response to Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Context: Nassim Nicholas Taleb has a long history of success and influence in finance, economic prediction, management philosophies and authorship of some very influential papers, books and public ideation across mass media. As a respected thinker in the domain of economics, Taleb wrote the original forward to “The Bitcoin Standard,” a book about gold’s role in Cambridge monetary theory disguised as a book about Bitcoin’s role in Austrian economics—but that is a different story. Over time, Taleb came to realize the folly of unpredictable fees, slow settlement time and the absurdity of the “digital gold” narrative because of its lack of economic utility and propensity to spiral into little more than a Ponzi scheme. His criticisms chided the small blocker lasercult, and in this era of Bitcoin, Taleb has been having his own little civil war against economic illiteracy embodied by the BTC commune.

Against that backdrop, Taleb was invited to speak as part of a panel at CoinGeek Zurich. In contrast to Nouriel Roubini who seemed to be impenetrable, Taleb’s time on stage was nuanced, and he showed a real desire to learn about anything he may have missed amid the fog of BTC banter. For that, he deserves credit. About a week later, he released a draft copy of his own thoughts about blockchain-based systems of money, and requested feedback from the Twitterverse.

Respectfully, here is my feedback:

First, let’s establish some swim lanes. BTC is an implementation of a modified version of the Bitcoin protocol—the limits of which are arbitrary and specific to the BTC implementation. A Ferrari can’t be judged fairly if it’s running on wagon wheels, so Bitcoin shouldn’t be judged when it’s been implemented poorly either. As such, when I use the term “Bitcoin,” I will be referring to base protocol, but not necessarily any specific implementation. If I mean to specify an implementation, I’ll use the ticker symbol.

Example:

BTC: Arbitrarily rate-limited to 6 megabytes per hour, globally, which comes out to 5-7 transactions per second depending on how the rate is measured. BTC has a trimmed down stack and very tight limits to the number, size and flexibility of computation allowed to deploy. This limits the usefulness of on-network applications. The most common applications are often called smart contracts, and the most common smart contracts today are tokens. BTC is an impractical system for utilization of any kind of application on top of being an unreliable means of exchange at the base layer.

BSV: A near complete restoration of the original Bitcoin protocol, with no arbitrary rules about the amount of data that users can pay to propagate across the network. In practical terms, 3,000-5,000 transactions per second have been observed. In testing environments and in estimation, 25,000 – 100,000 transactions per second do not appear to be problematic under normal circumstances or most edge cases. Furthermore, the BSV stack is Turing complete when utilized in the complete Bitcoin system, allowing for complex application deployment, distributed public computation, tokens and extremely low friction transactions with fast and predictable settlement time and cost.

Dr. Taleb, in your Introduction/Abstract, you mention “the original protocol.” While BTC is the oldest blockchain that synchronizes back to the genesis block, it has been made to do this with some software trickery called a “soft fork” which allows for drastic changes to the protocol without requiring legacy Bitcoin nodes to validate rules. Instead, these new protocol rules are obfuscated from legacy Bitcoin nodes by wrapping them in a sort of digital envelope. Legacy nodes validate the envelope, but not the invalid transactions within, so changes such as RBF and Segwit are propagated by tricking validator nodes. In any other network environment, such a change would be referred to as Malware, but in BTC, the community has decided that the protocol can be redefined to any extent as long as the chain does not split. As such, no version of Bitcoin has ever made it to four years of unbroken consensus without a protocol change, governance coup d’etat or a chain split. Few discuss this.

Believing that sound money is fundamentally unchanging, BSV broke away from BTC’s (and BCH’s) propensity to tinker and compromise bitcoin’s first principles to enforce the original protocol with honest nodes with the desire to create provenance and Lindy Effect in BSV with a fixed and open protocol that is set in stone longer than the competing “Bitcoin” chains.

Common ground

I will agree with you that precious metals lost their peg over the last generation as futures markets and “paper” metals have muddied the waters of truly “hard” monies, and also that BTC is not a good example of an asymmetric store of value. Since at least 2017, BTC has been closely correlated to other speculative markets, memestocks, and as its utility has been limited simply to speculation, it acts the way a purely speculative asset does: with great volatility. As we have seen stock and commodity trading democratize, BTC and other blockchain tokens have devolved into nothing more than precisely what you have stated: “zero sum asset(s) with massive negative externalities.”

Heading into page two of your draft, your understanding of the system is mostly to be commended. You’re right that the game theoretics of bitcoin make for honest nodes to have an incentive to secure the system in exchange for profits. However, in BTC, the only way to do this is to pool together incredible amounts of hash power in order to mine for block rewards (currently at 6.26 BTC per block). This is why the hash rate is distributed closely to cheap power with poor connectivity around the world. Since transactions are disincentivized both socially and by the limitations built into the network rules, infrastructural profit-seeking stops at that point.

In Bitcoin, there was never meant to be a block size limit, so the incentive to secure the ledger should include the transaction fees of millions or billions of users of the network per day. Somewhere between 2-3 gigabyte block sizes, transaction fees replace block reward subsidies which creates the incentive for miners to compete on value-added services for business-oriented use of the network for payments, tokenization, document management and more. The ability to seek profit from fees in big blocks is limitless, while the ability to seek profit from the block reward subsidy is diminishing by half every four years. All competing chains will need to deal with this economic reality at some point. In BTC, this can only occur by continued growth in fees per transaction. With BSV, fees per block rise while fees per transaction sink, creating economic opportunity for parts of the world where very real economic activity happens around $0.01.

Store of value farce

You are absolutely right about BTC’s intrinsic value being 0. BTC’s price is based on hype while gold, for example, is based on economic usefulness. BTC is claimed to be a store of value, but there are only vague answers as to what value BTC is storing. It’s certainly not future economic activity or business opportunity. BTC gets less useful over time because of increasing cost to redeploy capital, and the inability to predict future fees with any certainty. The lowest amount of BTC which can be respent in the future is growing—censoring out use into the future.

In contrast, the value that is being stored is the data on the ledger itself. Since BTC can only store the state of simple holdings, it is limited in the value of that data that can be stored. However, in BSV, the amount and types of data which can be stored is (practically) unlimited. Imagine storing network intelligence, global climate data, immutable state and changes of state of cybersecurity assets, the state of all global business contracts, etc. The value that can be stored on an unbounded bitcoin ledger and repurposed into the real economy becomes a new type of digital commodity based on the aggregate data of the global economy itself. Turning that new commodity into a new form of money has incalculable value.

Usefulness as ‘currency’ or ‘money’

You’re right that BTC is more expensive and slower than existing payment and settlement rails. But again, that is implementation, not fundamental protocol. On the unbounded Bitcoin protocol (only existing as BSV), special purpose tokenized currencies can be built on the same network as the global commodity ledger, undergirded by the power of the Bitcoin network, and they can be as useful as CBDCs or as simple as Chuck-E-Cheese tokens—or any other internal corporate, tokenized “money.”

With no arbitrary limits in implementation, BSV is capable of cutting costs and settlement times for ACH, Swift, Visa and payments systems like PayPal. In fact, all tests have shown that theories about the protocol are correct. Fees go down as volume goes up, so adding traffic to the network brings fees to the lower side of somewhere between 1/100th and 1/1000th of a penny per transaction at any scale. With instant availability and predictable 10-minute settlement times regardless of transaction volume, Bitcoin (BSV) makes for a fantastic replacement rail for legacy settlement systems.

For direct payments, the base asset works well denominated in “bitcoin” units of account or in fiat. There is also little perceptible friction to utilizing tokens. In fact, the BSV-exclusive “HandCash” wallet has forged a new unit of account for “nanopayments” use cases called “Duro” for anyone looking to ignore fiat valuations altogether across the large ecosystem of interconnected on-chain applications in the BSV economy. 1 Duro (Đ) = 500 satoshis = 0.000005 BSV making for the establishment of “Unit of Account” and “Means of Exchange” facets of money.

Closing

In the interest of time, I will stop here. Black Swan is one of my favorite books, and Bitcoin (the protocol) is one of the greatest inventions in a generation or more. It pains me to no end that BTC is colloquially understood to be Bitcoin when it fails tests of governance, rules enforcement and usefulness in the economy. But we fight to show the world that the unbounded Bitcoin protocol (BSV) is a useful payment tool, commodity, data ledger, computation network and a truly sound money.

We hope that it will become the black swan that Bitcoin was always intended to be. We are certainly working toward it with things like CoinGeek Conference, nChain’s Teranode, Taal’s mAPI and other mining/transaction tools as well as independent tools developed by Twetch, RelayX, Fyx Gaming and hundreds of other independent businesses who see the opportunity to use the only scalable, global, public blockchain that is ready to disrupt worldwide finance and fintech today (and tomorrow).

Watch: Nassim Nicholas Taleb keynote speech at CoinGeek Zurich

https://youtu.be/lQuldLZFNp8

Source: https://coingeek.com/a-response-to-nassim-nicholas-taleb/
Thanks to Kurt Wuckert Jr

$romain

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BSV Technical Standards Committee lays out roadmap for interoperable blockchain
At CoinGeek Zurich conference, attention was paid to the many data applications, but without technical standards, utility decreases for developers and for platform users.

Read more: https://coingeek.com/coingeek-zurich-bsv-technical-standards-committee-lays-out-roadmap-for-interoperable-blockchain/

$romain

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Quote from: hv_ on June 15, 2021, 01:32:40 AM

Parle Italiano?

https://cryptonomist.ch/2021/06/14/conferenza-coingeek-zurigo/
Cheesy

È favoloso!

Quote

Events are proving Dr. Craig right
If anyone suggests Bitcoin is transforming the world rather slowly, Dr. Craig Wright always says he’s not worried: he thinks long-term and will never give up.

Read more: https://coingeek.com/events-are-proving-dr-craig-right/

$romain

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Quote from: MishaSER on June 13, 2021, 02:39:45 AM

Quote from: $romain on June 12, 2021, 03:33:27 PM

Quote from: MishaSER on June 12, 2021, 12:50:22 PM

Projects that work with BSV they understand that on this forum there is an investigation that BSV is a scam. I just want to understand the motives of the people who work with BSV, what they are talking about.

Thank you for your interest in blockchain technologies, please note that this thread here on Bitcointalk is exclusively about development, technological advancement in regards to Bitcoin Satoshi Vision aka BSV. In this thread you will find everything! People who are passing by, haters, trolls, Bitcoin Satoshi Vision sympathizers, technology enthusiasts as well as the most talented people in their fields who sometimes expose facts that are journalistically relayed to inform.

BSV deploys and evolves to offer users and developers concrete solutions through an entire ecosystem that brings together several projects with several currently microeconomic functions, such as wallets to store your tokens, the interaction of your data (which only you control), specific computer protocols, NFTs, automated contracts, augmented reality XR, video games, IoT, stable coins, other innovations that I do not mention here but to discover! All of this is built on the BSV blockchain, which to date is the only blockchain that releases the original code provided by satoshi nakamoto (cleaned up from updates by Blockstream & other developers that ultimately stripped the software's harmony of its multiple possibilities) so by restoring the original protocol BSV releases the true possibilities of Bitcoin. The operating modes and partner entities in this ecosystem all offer multiple solutions for everyone, as well as for industries and companies wishing to take the next step in embedding blockchain in their business operational processes.

BSV is helping to provide the infrastructure for wider adoption in private, industry and public sector functions. Which impacts a drastic reduction in operating costs, almost no maintenance and above all the exclusion of multiple intermediaries. The security is not left out since thanks to its foundation your data are secured, can be encrypted and made confidential (but not anonymous).

Everything here is not about money value but about utility value & scaling, which is what BSV is proposing. The aim is to renew cyberspace, to change obsolete business models to enable industries to move sustainably towards strategic goals, including a significant part of the new generation of information technology. For the economic impact, the guidelines propose solutions for traceability, data sharing (which really remains under the control of the user I insist strongly on this) and supply chain management among others which are universal foundations of the main use cases of blockchain. For finance, BSV's solutions propose to allow your systems to gain in security & velocity since it allows to evolve in sidechain (joint interactions) towards a great compatibility with other technologies, notably AI, IoT & cloud computing, as well as the new Internet aka Metanet. By the way, did you know that Bitcoin Satoshi Vision can host AI foundations within its system? In fact, it's a supercomputer that few people realize how far-reaching it is a captital scope in terms of multi-timestamping-channels global strategy. This immutable technology is expected to continue to operate beyond 2140, and, is not for nothing.

In the field of public services, the protocols enable the creation and connection (within time-stamped networks) of smart cities and the increasing use of new technologies in the provision of public services, with the immutability of blockchain being highlighted as a key area for practical use in a range of use cases.

Quote

If you read on arrival at this page "Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Check their trust page to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution......

Their warning goal is not clear nor publicly established, maybe perhaps to try to discredit BSV, its detractors & developers at the expense of other blockchains like BTC for example. I call this "the BTC Hodl's gurus" which consists in making technology a perversion (like BTC code) to train new adepts to buy Bitcoin again and again without creating anything solution, not a good map or not exploitable for all humanity, just ppl opportunists who pervert the original Bitcoin functions for the sake of easy money...

Except that Bitcoin was originally created to be used by all, people, system, energy ... Not for Ponzi or money washin! This is where we are in 2021 in global crypto Far West.

BSV is changing this "game" and complying with the requirements of international regulators to provide full transparency as is currently the case.

If you want to discover more or train your analytical mind then I invite you to browse the CoinGeek site which is often quoted here as it is a relay that centralizes information around several relevant themes.

For any questions about Bitcoin Satoshi Vision or other things, members of the blockchain community will inform you here or elsewhere, 👉🏻 https://bsvblockchain.org/about-bsv/.
It's up to you to make your own opinion. That's why I advise you do your own research (DYOR), control the sources, learn more and more to improve yourself and the world.

Do you know what it looks like? BTC is bad and BSV is good, buy BSV. If you say that adepts buy over and over again, then how are you different? I would believe it if you took the article and gave a refutation for every word. If the truth is behind you, you can easily refute every word.

Do your own research! If you decide to invest where you want, that is your own business. It's not up to me or anyone else to tell you to buy or not! No one has to convince you, your free will is your own.

The value of BSV in the fact that it is useful and can continue to build solutions on a stable protocol over time. BSV is incomparable to BTC, they are not the same functions, nor the same category.

If you want proof of its usefulness, its functions, its objectives, its evolution then do your own investigation. I encourage you to use your wits, to grow your curiosity, to take the time to explore and find out what might be of interest to you.

Topic: [ANN] [BSV] [Bitcoin SV] Original Satoshi Vision - page 17. (Read 226395 times)