[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 45.

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: gweedo on April 03, 2013, 12:02:26 PM

Quote from: Rassah on April 03, 2013, 11:44:08 AM

Quote from: gweedo on April 03, 2013, 08:44:32 AM

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

There's a right way and a wrong way to handle it if you get in over your head. If a borrower posts as says "look I fukked up, I'm sorry and can we please work something out" I got no problem with that. Doubling the duration of the loan or cutting the interest are possibilities. Just walking away is bs scammer behavior, but that's what most are doing.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Rassah on April 03, 2013, 11:44:08 AM

Quote from: gweedo on April 03, 2013, 08:44:32 AM

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

But he obviously hasn't thought of the risk of accepting bitcoins as a loan medium. I think that deserve some kinda of special tag, not knowing the risk is just as bad as scamming in my opinion. It also makes it unfair to people that actually did pay back their loans.

Miademora

newbie

Activity: 9

Merit: 0

I searched quite a bit but i cant find what happens when a loan defaults. Where on the site is it?

Do we get access to the documents they used for identity verification?

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: gweedo on April 03, 2013, 08:44:32 AM

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

I think the scammer tag would only apply if the borrower and lenders didn't come together and agree on how to resolve the issue. If the lenders decided to take a cut on this and accept the borrower repaying a lower amount, that won't automatically make the borrower a scammer. Hopefully that will also incentivize the borrower to actually talk to the lenders, instead of just frieze up and try to disappear, which is a rather big problem out in the non-bitcoin lending world, too.

sal002

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

SCAMMER indicates someone who is not using best faith efforts to repay. Economics hitting hard in a historical matter does not indicate a "scammer". However, it does indicate someone who has not paid on a loan becuase the world around them crashed down.

That being said, BTCJam needs to figure this out. Along with the inaccurate interest calculations on early payments, this will kill the site unless we see a huge BTC crash soon.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: zx9r on March 03, 2013, 06:39:20 PM

Quote from: gweedo on March 03, 2013, 06:18:42 PM

Quote from: zx9r on March 03, 2013, 06:14:27 PM

I can see in the btcjam loan listings the amount, the interest rate and the days to make the payment back. But what I cant see is for how long is the interest rate. I mean, if the interest rate is 1%, is it a 1% weekly, monthly, yearly... ? I've searched hole the web but didn't find nothing.

You look at when they make the payments back so if the payments are every 7 days, then you know it is a weekly interest rate, if they make it every 1st of the month then it is monthly and so on...

I dont get how to do the math.

Lets take a real example:

Amount Rate Payment Term
฿30.00000 2.0% ฿5.35577 every 1st of the month 180 days

So... here it is a 2.0% monthly:

2% of ฿30 = ฿0.6 monthly
Total interest to pay = ฿0.6 * 6 months (180 days) = ฿3.6
Total amount to return = ฿30 +฿3.6 = ฿33.6

But if ฿5.35577 are paid each month: ฿5.35577 * 6 = ฿32.13462

Where is the difference between ฿33.6 and ฿32.13462 ?

Cause BTCJam takes a fee, that you aren't counting in, I pretty sure that is what is missing from your math.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Smoovious on April 02, 2013, 02:09:24 PM

Quote from: boonies4u on April 02, 2013, 01:41:35 PM

Quote from: sal002 on April 02, 2013, 09:48:00 AM

Quote from: creativex on March 27, 2013, 09:06:54 PM

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks. More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made. I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

I am in this situation. I won't go into detail here though.

I'm also in this situation, and at this point, I am unable to keep the repayment schedule, no matter how I try to do the math it isn't possible... the remainder of the payments on my loan are going to be late... and the more the exchange rate rises, the later they will be.

Nothing else I can do... sucks... I barely stayed on time as it is.

I considered the possibility of BTC rising to 20 USD, or 30 USD on the outside... almost 110 USD? WAY beyond any schedule I can keep.

At the current price, it is 1000% more than what I cashed out the BTC from my loan for, not including the loan interest itself.

-- Smoov

Then you deserve a scammer tag, cause that is bitcoins, you know it could do that, you accepted that risk when you took out a loan. This also takes away from the people that are paying on time, all my loans are coming in no issues.

Snipes777

full member

Activity: 132

Merit: 100

I think there should be some way of lenders forgiving their portion of the loan- or part of their loan. This way, people can work out deals with individual lenders for lower amounts and then their portion of the loan can be forgiven. At such a point loans may be able to be paid back. Of course, this also would require the upcoming user to user messaging system. I would forgive some of my late loans or portions of the loans to get something back- especially if I'm up overall because of exchange rate. Obviously it should be a lender's choice to participate in this, and rating would be available if they do it. At least during such an exponential period this could be a possible feature.

I would like to work things out with borrowers, but I can't then remove the amount they owe me according to the system.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: zx9r on March 03, 2013, 06:14:27 PM

I can see in the btcjam loan listings the amount, the interest rate and the days to make the payment back. But what I cant see is for how long is the interest rate. I mean, if the interest rate is 1%, is it a 1% weekly, monthly, yearly... ? I've searched hole the web but didn't find nothing.

You look at when they make the payments back so if the payments are every 7 days, then you know it is a weekly interest rate, if they make it every 1st of the month then it is monthly and so on...

sal002

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Perhaps some sort of forced refinancing if approved by a percentage of lenders or something would address this in a smooth way without bankrupting people. This would require lender approval, but might address the issue.

Smoovious

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Scattering my bits around the net since 1980

Quote from: boonies4u on April 02, 2013, 01:41:35 PM

Quote from: sal002 on April 02, 2013, 09:48:00 AM

Quote from: creativex on March 27, 2013, 09:06:54 PM

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks. More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made. I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

I am in this situation. I won't go into detail here though.

I'm also in this situation, and at this point, I am unable to keep the repayment schedule, no matter how I try to do the math it isn't possible... the remainder of the payments on my loan are going to be late... and the more the exchange rate rises, the later they will be.

Nothing else I can do... sucks... I barely stayed on time as it is.

I considered the possibility of BTC rising to 20 USD, or 30 USD on the outside... almost 110 USD? WAY beyond any schedule I can keep.

At the current price, it is 1000% more than what I cashed out the BTC from my loan for, not including the loan interest itself.

-- Smoov

boonies4u

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1000

Quote from: sal002 on April 02, 2013, 09:48:00 AM

Quote from: creativex on March 27, 2013, 09:06:54 PM

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks. More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made. I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

I am in this situation. I won't go into detail here though.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: hardcore-fs on March 02, 2013, 10:29:35 PM

unless they get on top of the scammers BTCJAM will not survive.

LMAO I love how you guys still don't understand P2P BTCJam is doing an outstanding job, keeping scammers, away with this security backing, lock-in into rate, and making it harder to be anonymous and start a loan. You guys will never have a just hit a button and invest and making money. That isn't how the world works, maybe your mom's and dad's told you guys that is how the world works but it isn't. Until you start doing homework and taking your investments seriously, you will always want BTCJam to do more, when they clearly are doing alot and the people that see this are grateful for it.

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: sal002 on April 02, 2013, 09:48:00 AM

Quote from: creativex on March 27, 2013, 09:06:54 PM

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks. More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made. I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

I understand all too well. I borrowed 50BTC @ 5.xx% for six months on btcjam when the exchange rate was $12ish. In dollar terms the interest rate is probably in the thousands of %. I have one payment remaining.

Excuses are meh...you borrow it, you repay it. Obviously others disagree.

sal002

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: creativex on March 27, 2013, 09:06:54 PM

Seems like the soaring exchange rate has encouraged many to "forget" to make payments. I'm done with unsecured loans.

Understood - but for some people who borrowed and used the money in real economic endevours, the rates now on repayment exceed loan sharks. More specifically, when pegged to real currency, the loan violate many jurisdictions usuary laws since given the currency exchange the "interest" is now in excess of 400%.

At the same time I can understand the argument that these are pure BTC loans and no reference to local currency should be made. I think that ignores the real world of getting BTC to fund real world tasks which often requires the conversion.

sal002

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Correct. Those assume payments are only made on the dates specified, not early. A payment made earlier should alter future payment amounts as the interest cost is decreased. Maybe you should prevent allowing an early payment in the functionality?

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: sal002 on April 02, 2013, 07:01:01 AM

Has anyone else noticed that the calculation of interest is incorrect? If you make an early payment, interest still accumulates as if you made the payment later.

There are many online calculators, this one, for example:
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/loan-calculator.aspx

They ask for annual percent rate (APR), to convert to monthly just multiply by 12 (and set the payment cycle to one of the monthly options on BTCJam):
http://www.wikicfo.com/(S(ad5nas45u0zr13fcts5u0y55))/Print.aspx?Page=Annual%20Percent%20Rate&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

sal002

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Has anyone else noticed that the calculation of interest is incorrect? If you make an early payment, interest still accumulates as if you made the payment later.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mobile on March 01, 2013, 08:04:41 PM

Quote from: tom1 on February 18, 2013, 03:09:04 PM

Quote from: mobile on February 18, 2013, 02:20:20 AM

Does BTCJam impose a minimum deposit of funds?

I don't think so.

Thanks for your response.

Now my the question i wrote BTCJam about is what protection does BTCJam offer to lenders that have fallen prey to a borrower that has not paid back :-/ We will see what happens.

Obviously this site isn't for you if your asking that question. P2P lending go google none of them offer protection.

Newar

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1001

https://gliph.me/hUF

I have received a rating from user senseless, although according to my records and the site, I have not loaned money to him. I thought this was not possible?

Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 45. (Read 204975 times)