Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 41. (Read 204974 times)

I was just asking if there are measures to keep someone from buying notes on a loan that they received.

-replied

Can you elaborate more what is the problem in that case?


Also, I've just sent you a PM about your loan.

I understand why you don't discount for early payments, it's important that lenders know how much they should be receiving.


Glad to hear that you're working on new features. Would there be a system in place that would keep someone from buying notes on their own loan? with a sock account?

Yes, the interface is being made. We are implementing filters because just displaying everything will not be useful.

That's not the responsibility of the borrower. You have a contract that any money they take from you they will pay "rent" on. If they don't have your money, it's not right to pay rent on it. It would be like you renting a car for 5 days, returning it after 1, and the rental agency coming back and saying, "Yeah, I know you only had it for 1 day, but we haven't had any customers in the last 4 days, so could you pay us for those days, too?"
If there was a specific laid-out contract that says interest is charged for a specified pay period, regardless of when money comes in, then that would be different. Also, you wouldn't be getting early payments, so you'll still have problems with researching loans overhead.

Nope - I can't find it either.

Thanks for the note trading feature, Tulkas!

Just one question - what happens to the notes after they are sold? Will they still show up on 'my notes' page, or will they just disappear?

As a general remark, it would be great to have access to a log of what happened with the account. Coins in and out, loans funded, payments made in/out etc. Am I the only one missing that feature?

LMAO if you didn't realize that at $20 or even $15, then you deserve not to get paid. I like how new warnings need to be created as the price raises LOL

The downside for us investors is that it takes significant overhead to research a loan. So earning BTC0.1 instead of BTC0.5 in interest would be a disappointment after doing all the research.

CoinLenders solves this issue by paying interest on deposits. So if you have the coins earlier, then you can simply park it in your account and you will pay less interest (depending on the interest rate for your loan).

I know you are implementing collections and more legal enforce-ability.  You may want to engage an attorney in various jurisdictions to see the default rules on loans and applicable usuary laws.  Right now, I suspect not saying you can't prepay and allowing people to prepay effectively allows prepayment and thus should impact the interest calculations.  Thus a lot of people may have overpaid.  However, I could be wrong.

You should implement that feature as default, or at least give a big warning that interest is calculated per pay period, as opposed to daily, and thus paying early will not change the interest owed. The reason is because that's not really ROI any more, since the investment part was returned. The idea is that when someone pays early, you can put that money into another loan and maintain your ROI with a new investment, as opposed to getting extra return from someone who pre-paid.

Maybe I am missing where the functionality is that allows me to see the payments I have made, the interest portion of that payment and the portion allocated to principal.  Your system physically allows early payments so perhaps you want to disable that until the calculated interest is adjusted accordingly. 

As I have mentioned before, it is not an interest rate discount, but a calculation that takes into account the time value of money. Easiest example is this - 1.00 with a interest rate of 10% per day.  If I pay you in full on day 1, I will pay owe $1.10 (and owe nothing more).  If I pay you on day 2, I will owe you $1.21.  Same interest rate, but waiting longer allows the interest to accrue.  On day 1, the principal paid back is $1.00 and interest is $0.10.  On day 2, the interest went up to $0.21 (assuming daily compounding).  In other words, earlier payments decrease the accumulation of interest even though the rate stays the same. BTCJam does not account for this nor does it have terms that prohibit early payments.  This is a large problem and means many people that paid loans there potentially overpaid.

I'll leave aside my issue that my amortization calculator does not match yours, but hopefully when I find the section that shows me my past payments (anyone else see this on the site?), I can see the error of my spreadsheet.

We are totally transparent, the interest calc is correct, the only issue is that you want to discount the interest rate in case of early payments and we do not do that.

We can implement that feature, some institutions do not allow early payments, others charge a penalty because it lowers the roi of investors and some allow it, it's really a matter of choice. You can submit this feature request at our uservoice feedback widget, perhaps we can make this optional and let the borrower choose, since it will affect investor returns.

I appreciate all the changes BTCJam, but if they want to move into the real world of collections, transparency is going to be the key.  The incorrect interest calcs, plus the inability to see what payments were made and when as well as the impact on principal and interest is a HUGE problem for this site.  I may sound like a broken record, but in the meantime BTCJam is opening itself up a large potential issue that can EASILY be avoided thru transparency.

Yeah, you can't really call it interest at that point, since you can't really charge that amount if you are not owed it.

perhaps "delisted" would be a better tag

-- Smoov

Tulkas - please do not allow users to delete loan requests and have the page redirect to a 404.

This allows scammers to hide their tracks by deleting old loans that do not fund.

I believe you should keep the loan details up, but just mark the loan as "closed" or "deleted".

Just to make things clear, BTCJam was not hacked!
The user had his password compromised.

We will add two factor authentication soon, but remember to take good care of your passwords!

Looks like a hack attempt from a new feature, I have posted elsewhere on the forum for people to check their accounts.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/suspicious-btcjam-account-activity-investigation-pending-175701

I urge Talkas to either do e-mail verification or 2PA.

We are working together to get these sales reverted, as yet I cant see anything, I will update.


EDIT - Update, Everything has been moved back, I shall rotate my passwords more often now, He said he is implementing a 2PA soon, outlook good! Thanks.