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Topic: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - page 117. (Read 470739 times)

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 04, 2014, 03:32:22 AM
Quote
You're missing the point. Your system is complicated. People need simple. KISS.


As for details of how block rewards work, as a user, you really don't need to know anything about how it works. You mine it, and you get rewarded for your contribution, other people have vette it's fair, you don't need to worry about the details, period.



Needing to know and wanting to know are two different things. A lot of people would like to say "hey, it's retargeting in x blocks", not have to pull out some paper and do some algebraic formula to figure it out.

Also, you are trying to interpret human behavior with code and are trying to "reprogram" human behavior (as you put it). This is a fundamentally flawed and short sighted approach. I realize setting a static value has its drawbacks, but the code complexity you're talking about adding is a hundred times worse than just a static value that's a 95% solution. Why make it so complicated? Miners are not moving around together as a group, their distribution and unpredictability make your method nearly impossible to implement in a reasonable amount of code. Please demonstrate how you'd accomplish this in a reasonable and uncomplicated way?

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
January 04, 2014, 03:31:36 AM
https://github.com/kR105/catcoin/commit/cedd0a0f2765968417825255d3f54f82a0b74cbc

Here's the commit for those that want to review the code changes.

This looks fine to our pool, updated to this version. We welcome the fork.
http://catpool.pw
Come mine with us so we can reach block 20290 faster!



<<@catpoolbot>> BLOCK FOUND: 20276 | 1536190 shares | Amount: 50 | Found By SeriousSam

14 blocks to go until fork, come join us so we can get these faster!
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
January 04, 2014, 03:18:35 AM
Quote
You're missing the point. Your system is complicated. People need simple. KISS.

Sure. You buy video cards, install drivers, download the wallet, cgminer, set your mining gear to solo-mine or join a pool. I don't know how "simple" this procedure is for the average people out there in the world - but if they criticize it's too complicated, that applies equally to all the cryptocurrencies. And that might be an opportunity to make an easier way to do it.

As for details of how block rewards work, as a user, you really don't need to know anything about how it works. You follow well-documented procedures to do mining, and you get rewarded for your contribution, other people have vetted it's fair, you'll get fair value in coins for hashing work you contribute - you don't need to worry about the details.

However, if you are interested in squeezing out maximum profits, and want to get technical, then yeah, things can seem more complicated. But at that point, you've asked for the complexity. The loyalty credit system may seem complicated, but it's a designed to counteract people who are already engaged in a complicated strategy to take advantage of a weakness in the reward system as it works currently. It will have essentially zero impact on people who don't engage in that complicated strategy.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 04, 2014, 02:52:08 AM
There is no difference between fast small rock and slow large rock. The momentum is the same. You don't know if they are loyal or fast. That's the problem. There is no way to tell. Also we're not trying to penalize people for choosing different coins. It's the sudden switch, that's the problem. It's like soldiers don't march over a bridge (a pool). The synchronized force can cause the bridge to collapse. The solution is to randomize the force, not penalize it. Buffer it, add some cotton, soften it. Stop treating the miners like two year olds. Some of them don't care about coins, and they have a right not to care. Maybe they have bills to pay. This isn't a college fraternity. It's a community. People come and go for various reasons.

Quote
Now, the difficulty level goes way down, and it is easy to mine blocks. The low hashrate loyal miner continues mining through the pool, and he pretty quickly earns 0.054 coins and in the process extinguishes the 0.054 loyalty credits. A non-loyal slow miner who did not earn loyalty credits contributes the same amount of hash to the same pool (jumping in for the easy difficulty), but not having earned loyalty credits during the previous high difficulty era, receives only .027 coins, per rules of the coin.

There is MORE than one coin. The fast hoppers don't leave at high difficulty in one coin. They leave when other coins have lower difficulty. You could have high difficulty and fast hoppers staying because another coin has higher difficulty or lower reward. Then the hoppers would get the reward while the slow loyals of the other coins get half rewards because they couldn't afford the electricity to mine during high difficulty.

What you describe really is no problem, because you can start mining any time you want you will get adequate compensation in coins. There is no "penalty" in the sense of your wallet losing coins. It it just that when you jump in when things are particularly easy, and you have not mined recently when things are hard, your per-minute-of-mining profitability is more boring (cut in half but still profitable). Rest of the time, when difficulty changes are not extreme, you can jump in and out without any effect on block reward values. But it would train people to moderate hyperactive jumping-in behavior during the rare short-term incentives of apparent high profitability. The system/protocol is set up specifically so trying to jump in and cherry pick easy profits fails. The easy profits are reserved for people who provably were around mining during the recent tougher times. They deserve that reward. Otherwise, everything works exactly the same, you believe in the coin, you jump in without checking anything, stay through multiple difficulty swings, and generally, you are credited the full amount. It's just in the rare case you jump in conveniently when the difficulty happened to be very easy, then it's going to seem (just for that one brief difficulty period) like the reward rate is not exciting (closer to typical profit than extraordinarily profitable). Once you "serve out" one difficulty cycle, you are on exact equal grounds as everyone else. This is completely fair and totally temporary. The loyalty credit system does not have a long memory as to who has been loyal (except for the few coins you may have earned more of that you still have sitting in your wallet). There is no systemic problem, and hashrates are systematically modestly adjusting all the time, without the crazy spikes caused by short-term profitability seekers. The incentives are for once matched up with what is valuable for the coin network - its security and stability is better served from longer-term hash contributions that come regardless of difficulty changes - than by the same number of hashes that only show up during easy difficulty times. I doubt anyone does this, but think about it - if someone were to hash Catcoins only during times when difficulty level is high, and stopped mining when it got easy, they are helping the network far more than someone who does the opposite - yet they are compensated far less.




You're missing the point. Your system is complicated. People need simple. KISS.
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
January 04, 2014, 02:46:07 AM
There is no difference between fast small rock and slow large rock. The momentum is the same. You don't know if they are loyal or fast. That's the problem. There is no way to tell. Also we're not trying to penalize people for choosing different coins. It's the sudden switch, that's the problem. It's like soldiers don't march over a bridge (a pool). The synchronized force can cause the bridge to collapse. The solution is to randomize the force, not penalize it. Buffer it, add some cotton, soften it. Stop treating the miners like two year olds. Some of them don't care about coins, and they have a right not to care. Maybe they have bills to pay. This isn't a college fraternity. It's a community. People come and go for various reasons.

Quote
Now, the difficulty level goes way down, and it is easy to mine blocks. The low hashrate loyal miner continues mining through the pool, and he pretty quickly earns 0.054 coins and in the process extinguishes the 0.054 loyalty credits. A non-loyal slow miner who did not earn loyalty credits contributes the same amount of hash to the same pool (jumping in for the easy difficulty), but not having earned loyalty credits during the previous high difficulty era, receives only .027 coins, per rules of the coin.

There is MORE than one coin. The fast hoppers don't leave at high difficulty in one coin. They leave when other coins have lower difficulty. You could have high difficulty and fast hoppers staying because another coin has higher difficulty or lower reward. Then the hoppers would get the reward while the slow loyals of the other coins get half rewards because they couldn't afford the electricity to mine during high difficulty.

What you describe really is no problem, because you can start mining any time you want you will get adequate compensation in coins. There is no "penalty" in the sense of your wallet losing coins. It it just that when you jump in when things are particularly easy, and you have not mined recently when things are hard, your per-minute-of-mining profitability is more boring (cut in half but still profitable). Rest of the time, when difficulty changes are not extreme, you can jump in and out without any effect on block reward values. But it would train people to moderate hyperactive jumping-in behavior during the rare short-term incentives of apparent high profitability. The system/protocol is set up specifically so trying to jump in and cherry pick easy profits fails. The easy profits are reserved for people who provably were around mining during the recent tougher times. They deserve that reward. Otherwise, everything works exactly the same, you believe in the coin, you jump in without checking anything, stay through multiple difficulty swings, and generally, you are credited the full amount. It's just in the rare case you jump in conveniently when the difficulty happened to be very easy, then it's going to seem (just for that one brief difficulty period) like the reward rate is not exciting (closer to typical profit than extraordinarily profitable). Once you "serve out" one difficulty cycle, you are on exact equal grounds as everyone else. This is completely fair and totally temporary. The loyalty credit system does not have a long memory as to who has been loyal (except for the few coins you may have earned more of that you still have sitting in your wallet). There is no systemic problem, and hashrates are systematically modestly adjusting all the time, without the crazy spikes caused by short-term profitability seekers. The incentives are for once matched up with what is valuable for the coin network - its security and stability is better served from longer-term hash contributions that come regardless of difficulty changes - than by the same number of hashes that only show up during easy difficulty times. I doubt anyone does this, but think about it - if someone were to hash Catcoins only during times when difficulty level is high, and stopped mining when it got easy, they are helping the network far more than someone who does the opposite - yet they are compensated far less.


full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 04, 2014, 02:28:35 AM
GJ, if all goes well I'll shoot you some CATS
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 501
January 04, 2014, 02:01:05 AM
Rar file uploaded to the OP.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
January 04, 2014, 01:50:29 AM
These are important changes. Details can be found here: http://www.catcoins.org/catcoin-fork/

Code for review can be found here:
https://github.com/kR105/catcoin/commit/cedd0a0f2765968417825255d3f54f82a0b74cbc

And a new windows binary can be found here:
http://www.catcoin.pw/catcoin-0.8.7.0-win32-setup.exe
Backup link:
https://mega.co.nz/#!bNolmKxI!OHnQ93xG6RU0e1drlshINTqfmfhz6XA9AEjlzMqWNqc

SHA256: c0248907be0c92da0302f1fd573d6a20f5eefbb443c2b5c51670eaca0f985dea

Virustotal:
https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/c0248907be0c92da0302f1fd573d6a20f5eefbb443c2b5c51670eaca0f985dea/analysis/1388817736/

This is a false positive, all code can be reviewed on github. False positives are common with most, if not all wallets.

@foodies123: KR105 is building a zip for you, it will be up in a moment.

already installed and waiting to get forked Smiley

edit: seems it's having trouble sync`ing ... we'll wait it out and see
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 04, 2014, 01:48:45 AM
These are important changes. Details can be found here: http://www.catcoins.org/catcoin-fork/

Code for review can be found here:
https://github.com/kR105/catcoin/commit/cedd0a0f2765968417825255d3f54f82a0b74cbc

And a new windows binary can be found here:
http://www.catcoin.pw/catcoin-0.8.7.0-win32-setup.exe
Backup link:
https://mega.co.nz/#!bNolmKxI!OHnQ93xG6RU0e1drlshINTqfmfhz6XA9AEjlzMqWNqc

SHA256: c0248907be0c92da0302f1fd573d6a20f5eefbb443c2b5c51670eaca0f985dea

Virustotal:
https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/c0248907be0c92da0302f1fd573d6a20f5eefbb443c2b5c51670eaca0f985dea/analysis/1388817736/

This is a false positive, all code can be reviewed on github. False positives are common with most, if not all wallets.

@foodies123: KR105 is building a zip for you, it will be up in a moment.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
January 04, 2014, 01:40:15 AM
Everyone, please download the new Windows client available in the OP or recompile your Linux nodes!

why installer ?
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 501
January 04, 2014, 01:38:26 AM
Everyone, please download the new Windows client available in the OP or recompile your Linux nodes!
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
January 04, 2014, 01:25:11 AM
https://github.com/kR105/catcoin/commit/cedd0a0f2765968417825255d3f54f82a0b74cbc

Here's the commit for those that want to review the code changes.

This looks fine to our pool, updated to this version. We welcome the fork.
http://catpool.pw
Come mine with us so we can reach block 20290 faster!

member
Activity: 91
Merit: 10
January 04, 2014, 01:23:56 AM
Sp when this 20290 block occurs?
What estimate time?
and how it change if it change anything for minners/ difficulty?
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 04, 2014, 12:58:23 AM
https://github.com/kR105/catcoin/commit/cedd0a0f2765968417825255d3f54f82a0b74cbc

Here's the commit for those that want to review the code changes.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
January 04, 2014, 12:04:35 AM
So.........shall we jump back onto the speculation train? What worth are ya'll expectin'?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 03, 2014, 11:23:59 PM
I should be popping up on the list soon lol.
Cat is gunna get some much needed CPR
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
January 03, 2014, 11:21:29 PM
I think we'll see some price spiking once the fork happens, so don't worry too much about that. Probably weak hands dumping their cat for quick profit. Once that's happened I expect prices to slowly rise back up more gradually. Big events usually cause events like that, so just don't panic at the first sign of a raised or lowered price. The market will correct itself once the drama has died down.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. G'night.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 03, 2014, 11:20:31 PM
No dude, don't mine, I don't want the fork to happen before my BTC clears god damnit do me this favor LOL
Damn you Coinbase, give me my 10 instant BTC already...
Whatever ill help, I only have a GTX 680 though so the most I can contribute is 350kh with cudaminer.

Way to go, Network increasing. We may reach fork before we're expecting.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 03, 2014, 11:11:35 PM
No dude, don't mine, I don't want the fork to happen before my BTC clears god damnit do me this favor LOL
Damn you Coinbase, give me my 10 instant BTC already...
Whatever ill help, I only have a GTX 680 though so the most I can contribute is 350kh with cudaminer.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 03, 2014, 11:10:53 PM
At this point I'm going to buy some too and point my rig to http://cat.coinium.org/index.php

I dont want to be late when we will switch and I want to help Catcoin community.

Anyone willing to help in milling these 19 blocks fast?
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