Topic: [ANN] (DAM) Datamine Network - FLUX: Time is Money 2.0 - DeFi DApp - page 5. (Read 5898 times)

I appreciate the sentiment and its why I stay above name-calling and attacks on individuals.  Can you please cite where I was "hostile" and "troll-esque"?  I was there for 20 minutes.  I got banned almost immediately because I pointed out that the core mechanism of DAM (produce flux) and FLUX (produce more FLUX) is deflationary. 

My quote in the Discord conversation with you was "Burning flux to get more flux is a price deflationary mechanism - I can't see people with huge stacks of locked DAM buying FLUX just to burn it to lose money.  Without another use-case for FLUX the concept doesn't work.  The primary use case for FLUX should NOT be burning it to multiply your FLUX rewards, that should be a secondary use case."|


A broken clock can be right twice a day.  Would Hodl be willing to ask OpenZeppelin in their public support forum (https://forum.openzeppelin.com/c/support/contracts/18) for feedback on his implementation?  They wrote it.





CTFC went after Abra because they "accepted orders for and entered into thousands of digital asset and foreign currency-based contracts via a mobile phone application. These contracts, which constituted swaps under the CEA, enabled customers to enter into financial transactions, with the respondents acting as the counterparty, to gain exposure to price movements of over seventy-five digital assets. By entering into these contracts via their app, respondents violated Section 2(e) of the CEA, which makes it unlawful for any person, other than an eligible contract participant, to enter into a swap unless the swap is entered into on, or subject to the rules of, a board of trade designated as a contract market. Additionally, in soliciting and accepting orders for these contracts, the respondents illegally operated as an unregistered futures commission merchant. "(https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8201-20)

I understand your point is that Abra created synthetic derivatives and then allowed price exposure to them via an app and that DAM/FLUX are different and I will agree with you on that.  However, the CFTC entering the fray on on-chain swaps doesn't bode well for a project that touts itself as "Money 2.0".  You're clearly not identical - I wouldn't suggest you are (that would be dishonest); my concern was more directly related to the clearly-increasing regulatory oversight occurring within DeFi.  Jake Chervinsky summarizes this well on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1282750679312891910?s=20

To that extent, is Datamine even a registered company?

Anyway - as with all things in crypto buyer (and seller!) beware.  Hopefully your "Money 2.0" doesn't draw the ire of the US Secret Service, because it is increasingly clear that the United States only really cares that you're dealing with its citizens - not where you're operating out of.  https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/71261/coinbase-is-selling-blockchain-analytics-software-to-the-us-secret-service

Alright, let's just set the record straight. This dude who brought these concerns is a verified scammer, going by multiple online aliases. This steemit article is just one example of the crooked games' he's played. https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@exposer/cryptomedicated-or-james-edwards-and-chayleh-tracey-fraud-exposed-or-picture-proof.

His concerning was with the "approve" function in the code inside the ERC777 standard that gives it compatibility with ERC20 (from my non-technical perspective, I'm not a coder). Someone in our community put it like this;

Alice says to Bob, "I approve of you spending this $20."
"Thanks Alice!  I'm going to go spend all of it immediately on BWK.  That coin has a great future!"
"Wait, Bob, before you do that, I've changed my mind.  I now only approve of you spending $7."
"Sorry, Alice, I already spent it all."
Does this sound like an exploit, or did Alice make a poor decision in approving Bob to spend her money?


So this exploit, actually can't be exploited because nothing in the DAM-FLUX ecosystem utilizes the "approve" function. See for yourself, go trade a regular ol' ERC20 on uniswap, and you'll notice you must approve it. Trading FLUX and DAM do not require this, as per ERC777. So this is currently unexploitable. Now Hodl has mentioned that later today he'll be replying in a long form to address this concern. Again remember who brought these allegations forward; a toxic member of the crypto community who has a history of scams, evidence fabrication and has had his accounts banned several times (why he's changed his aliases so often). A great twitter to see more on Librehash, is ProofOfFraud on twitter, a twitter account created to expose Librehash.


Now this is flat out dishonest, and misleading. Abra's entire platform was it's interaction with traditional securities markets. You could "purchase" stock, ETFs and the like with crypto on Abra. That's what's gotten them into hot water with the SEC. To insinuate that their platform is anything the Datamine Network is absurd.

Yeah I guess since he was pretty hostile and troll-esque in the Discord server (which led to him getting banned) I had a pretty short fuse with him on here. My wife says I've been getting less patient over the years, and perhaps I should be a little more patient, and a little more tactful in my approach; doubly so on a public forum like Bitcointalk. Apologies Potato, at the end of the day we can often forget on the other side of the computer is another human being. I wish you all the best. (Just some honesty and less fud spreading would be appreciated haha)

I think anyone who chooses to play a game should know the rules.  One of the most common responses through this thread was basically "I'm not smart enough to understand that".  So I think an exploration of the rules and a more-through breakdown of them is fair.  One of the biggest fundamental rules of any coin with a mint function is the initial liquidity crunch price spike. DAM attempts to elongate this crunch by incentivising locking for FLUX, and burning FLUX to get more FLUX.  This may maintain the liquidity crunch and price spike for longer, but you've been in the altcoin game long enough to know where it lands 99.7% of the time.

The result of the game will be that FLUX and DAM are likely to continue bleeding value until they're able to create and successfully market a compelling enough use case (hint: burn FLUX to get more FLUX isn't a use case) that attracts new market entrants to support the price.

They could start buy honoring their bounties and patching bugs:
https://librehash.org/auditing-the-flux-smart-token-contract-major-vulnerability-found-5-000-bug-bounty-denied-with-team-also-refusing-to-acknowledge-or-patch-part-one/

SmartContract vulnerability could be a big deal and is one rule that's very much worth keeping in mind.


Based on my analysis, I don't think this project will go anywhere.  It's really quite likely that no major exchange will touch them just from a risk perspective.    CTFC is going after exactly this type of project: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-153



Yeah, I played that game and saw how it worked out, so I didn't want to play again.  I also wanted to make sure anyone deciding to play this game could have a better understanding of the rules.

I'm glad you enjoyed the dialogue

I would like to thank NationalPotato and xxmetalmartyrxx (and few others too actually) for the entertaining and informative read. I believe NationalPotato brought up legit questions, and xxmetalmartyrxx provided meaningful answers (which could have been provided in a more respectful way though). I personally got some information I needed.

---

@NationalPotato: your concern regarding the utility for FLUX is reasonable, but I assume you are looking at things from a viewpoint of a person who is more into a traditional financial market rather than a cryptocurrency ecosystem. In a crypto world "inherent" value is often something intangible, and it is still unclear whether any of cryptocurrency offerings provide any 'inherent' value. If you look at it from Warren Buffet's standpoint, you will discard every single cryptocurrency in the world, including DAM, FLUX, ETH or BTC.

Look at it as a game. Its a game developers have offered, and the people agreed to participate in. The rules are openly described (both the code is open for everyone to check, and written text descriptions describe the rules quite well). So people are playing this game to entertain themselves, and to get some profit (and currently the profit is still high). They are playing voluntarily, and here you come and tell them "you are playing a wrong game, stop it".. Well.. its their game, they read the rules, they agreed to play. Let them play and enjoy the ride.

What will be the result of the game? The FLUX supply will inflate, for sure, it will lose value to some point. That's clear, and that's inevitable, as the supply still grows fast. Will it find its final balance at zero..? Maybe it'll do that like 99% of altcoins in the market, but definitely not quite yet. It might take few months or years, or may never happen, as it highly depends on what the developers will do next with the project.
In any case, one intentional result of this process will be the distribution of the coins, which is essential for any crypto project. If the destribution is wide enough, if enough people are amused by the game, and if the developers drive things forward to a next step (which should give additional value), then who knows where this could land at... some may say 'moon' . Every project has its chance. In any case its still too early to speculate about this - as there are too many unknowns.

One side note: you participated in the BWK game (owned masternodes AFAIK), but refuse to accept DAM game. Whats the big difference? BWK was aslo a "lock your BWK to get more BWK" game, wasn't it?

Alpha Datamine DeFi Network
July 31, 2020, I want to see how this will continue, and I see on the graviek exchange that the trade volume ratio is very low and the dispute between buy orders - far cell buy, should increase trading volume

Nah. I'm not the type. Sorry. I'm shy. Besides, I don't personally have much, (or not as much as some would believe, I like pretending) just token amounts for playing with the dashboard.


Thank you. I'm sorry I can't answer the other concerns though. Feel free to stay. I'm not the best at understanding some of these things.


It's been a week and a couple of days.

Bitcoin was once $20k, and fell to $3k. (Even older still, it was once $1000 and fell to $200, and before that it was once $50 and fell to $2.)

I suggest you give this whole thing some time to sort itself out, perhaps not 11 years or anything like that, we all know things move a little quicker these days. But a couple of weeks is kinda pushing it.

It did start at somewhere below $0.01 before it went up to $0.20. And FLUX actually started at zero.

I learned a few things:

PITNOG = Patience is the name of the game..

It's time in the market, not timing the market.

Finally, the devs do not have a premine, either of the old coin, or the new token. We all started out the same.

How do you account for the 70% price decline in the last ~2 days, then?  How much additional liquidity are you wiling to personally supply to support the current price?
So we both agree the price is going to head downward until it reaches "equilibrium" or 0, whichever comes first?  I bet "equilibrium" is well-below $1.00 in the next 30 days. 

Also - to anyone considering $DAM vs. Mining hardware, remember you can always sell your GPUs on Craigslist and you don't need to worry about the developer dumping the books to exit stage left on their ugly shitcoin. A 1080ti is a 1080ti regardless of an individual project's market conditions.

The incentive system based on burning extra tokens is a very interesting approach to the issue of extra tokens. Thus, coins should not lose much in price, even taking into account the fact that their number is infinite in essence.

I didn't avoid it, and I addressed it in my response to you. I'll explain again; burning is just another mechanism to increase the minting rate, ie; you get a larger chunk of the global mint rate by increasing your burn. Similiar to adding a new mining rig to the global hashrate of a typical PoW coin. The N+X question is framed in a way that misunderstands the entire premise of Flux. Will the supply of Flux continue to increase? Yes, proportionally to the global burn rate. This WILL be price deflationary, until an equilibrium is reached. But, yes, the N+X understanding would imply that, if demand remains unchanged, the price will continue to deflate. It's almost as if... every cryptocurrency that has more supply being created is under this same pressure created by more and more supply though... HMMMM. 

Masternodes, mining, staking: all these forms of supply increase are deflationary. Flux is not an exception to this. Burning won't be the only use case for Flux either.

Keep bumping the thread.

Always happy to bump the thread.  Doesn't bother me that my responses to this bring things to the top.  The more people see how desparately the entire Datamine crew avoids the N+X question, the more people will realize that it's probably not wise to buy in.

Heck, your post just reinforced my point.  200% monthly "ROI" (I have no idea how you calculated that figure) is clearly unsustainable.  I figure everything will trend toward the Fed rate of ~0%... so I guess your argument is that FLUX is valueless?  Reasonable investors usually seek rates at or around the Fed rate.  So you and I are on the same page:  FLUX is valueless and anyone buying it is a sucker.

It should continue to fall until the ROI with DAM/Flux reaches a reasonable point. At 10$, with current DAM prices, was over 200% monthly ROI. Obviously, that will fall until it reaches reasonable levels. Also, thanks for continuing to bump the thread!

To confirm your explanation of this:  Rank 10 is because you've been such a frequent participant in the server that the bot managing ranks has  promoted you to the highest-participating rank.   The "Marketing" distinction is one you received because you asked to be more involved in Bulwark's marketing.  For the sake of clarity: do you have any administrative privileges within the DATAMINE server?

I'll keep sniffing around the margins.  This entire project stinks.  Stinky stink is what the current odor is.  I hope it improves. I'd love to see whatever necromantic magic that's attempting to revive the fetid corpse of a failed shitcoin to actually succeed.  Could you imagine how promising of a model this would be going forward?  There are SO MANY failed shitcoins.  If "they" manage to convert this one into a successful ERC-777 token, imagine the market opportunities moving forward.  There are multitudinous suckers to bag with heavy burdens to carry forward into perpetuity........


I was happy to inform the devs their coin didn't pass the sniff test in a more private forum. They banned me for it.  So, no.  I won't leave.  Neither you, nor any other respondent, has managed to assuage my concerns that FLUX's primary mechanism of burn N FLUX and get N+X FLUX in return is deflationary.  

Since my initial post, FLUX's value has fallen from $16.69 to $5.42.  That's nearly a 70% decline in about 55 hours.  Maybe my primary critique of the project has merit?  If you disagree, perhaps you believe the current price of FLUX is advantageous to your long-term financial best interests and buying would be a prudent choice?  Put your money where your mouth is.  Got an ETH address you'd be willing to demonstrate ownership of, and then demonstrate purchasing FLUX with?

DAM has fallen 20%, from ~$.17 to ~$.14.   I expect this trend to continue.  As more BWK bagholders become disillusioned with the prospects of succeeding with this project, they'll likely dump out.  FLUX's only use case currently is to.. burn FLUX for more FLUX.  DAM's only use case is to get FLUX, so there's not really a reason for DAM to onboard more users unless they enter with the intent to sell FLUX


So is hanging around and making sure my concerns are addressed (or not).  I won't just go away because you're nice (you are and I like you and appreciate you for that).  I'll leave once someone offers a reasonable economic explanation for how the FLUX burn mechanism (FLUX's only know use case, currently) is beneficial to the economics of this project.  I also laugh, out loud, at the assertion that there's some underlying demand for people to want to hold FLUX.  That's the most absurd, obtuse, outright developer-obsequious notion to be suggested in the better part of the last few years.  I've got a few Crypto "bridges" to sell, if you're interested in buying.  

Dude, you are nit picking on minor irrelevant details.

For the sake of clarification since you brought it up:

Discord has some kind of permissions things attached to the labels or roles. I'm rank 10 because they have a bot that tracks conversations and if you stick around long enough, that's what you get. I used to be tagged "coding" because I requested to be able to see what they are talking about there. I'm tagged "BCT Staff" because at that time, I was Staff here on bitcointalk and the team recognized it. I no longer am a moderator here, but again, that's not relevant. I'm tagged "Marketing" for pretty much the same reason, so I am updated and be aware of what the community is doing.

I did not do any coding or marketing effort, except maybe to mention the coin to a few friends. You can see it all in the old discord as some channels there have been marked under "archive" but they are not deleted, as history. You can also see everything that has ever happened in the BWK threads.

It seems you've been around long enough to run at least 4 masternodes back a year or two ago, then you know everything that happened.

As to why you did not join the swap, well, you did say you refused to participate. So you still have your BWK. That is fine, that is your choice.

Did I pull some strings or anything like that? No. I asked nicely. Same thing with all the other Discord servers that I am on.

If you don't have a beef against me, we can end this part of the conversation here cordially and respectfully, thank you. If you don't like DAM or don't like what the devs are doing, you don't have to be here. If you want to "protect" people, you can also do that in hundreds or thousands of other threads, particularly the ones who actually asked for money in the form of ICOs/IEOs or similarly. I escrowed a few of those before just to make sure those coins launched. Some are still alive today, some got stopped before they could get started and some died their natural deaths.


Stop sniffing whatever it is you are sniffing.

I don't have a beef against you either, but am just trying to clarify things.

You're not part of the old team, but you're labeled as  "Marketing" in the Bulwark discord.  That seems to be an "official" position?  There are other folks who are "rank 10" that aren't tagged with "Marketing".  I never said you received any portion of the BWK pre-mine (Hodl4Jesus didn't either, as far as I know, but they're absolutely the dev of the "new BWK").

How can you be not part of the team but officially part of their marketing apparatus?  Plenty of people stuck around just as long as you and aren't labeled as "Marketing". 

In your own words, DAM is the new BWK.  How can you be a part of the BWK marketing apparatus, but somehow be disassociated from DAM? 

It just doesn't pass the sniff test.

"Marketing" of the community that took over development of the BWK coin after the old team left. I was not a part of the old team or the new team otherwise, just an "outsider" who stuck long enough in the discord, that and I'm also on this forum as well. Not being deceptive, never was, never have been, never will be.

"DAM is the new BWK, It's like a rebrand." Faster way of saying what everyone already knows to mean, sorry if that was not clear to you. Remember that discord is a real time chat application, unlike this forum where sometimes people type from a keyboard or a desktop / laptop computer.

My usual role around these parts has been as third party or escrow. In both cases, in BWK and now DAM, I never held any coins or tokens that belonged to the team.

As you know, I've been here long enough to value my own integrity; I have no beef against you, and we did chat briefly in discord.

You're part of the BWK team (you're "Marketing" according to your Discord tag).   Or was that just for Bulwark?  Please don't be deceptive.  

Here's you saying that DAM is the new BWK and that "it's like a rebrand".    

Here's a direct link for anyone in the BWK discord:  https://discord.com/channels/374271866308919296/374271866308919298/710569922534703205

Here's a link to the BWK discord: https://discord.me/bulwarkcrypto

(I've also created a few videos of the search in case, somehow, the message in question  "disappears").

1. I'm not part of the DAM dev team, I'm just another person on the discord or this forum that got some tokens, like everybody else.
2. I may have mentioned that Bulwark is conducting a swap to DAM, and everyone knew that, as 16.8 million were eventually swapped, and 8 million DAM were thus burned.

Unlocking your DAM tokens will cause you to lose your current time bonus. Any unminted FLUX Dividends will also be lost. it is recommend that you mint your FLUX Dividends before unlocking DAM.

Thanks again xxmetalmartyrxx.

A feature enhancement I'd suggest is when we buy more DAM, we can add it to our current locked-in DAM without unlocking the original stash (and thereby re-setting the counter).