Topic: [ANN] Elacoin | Released | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine - page 14. (Read 133887 times)

I suggest additionally to implement a demurrage fee. Demurrage gradually reduces the value of currency held: it is in effect a negative interest rate on currency in circulation. Both inflation (made by mining) and demurrage reduce the purchasing power of money held over time, but the market price should be stable:
1. price of coin should be much more correlated with energy price and GPU depreciation - 1 coin / 1 kW = const
2. demurrage, like negative incentives, makes that a currency would suffer more rapid circulation than competing forms of currency

Hehe, true.  My point was that it appears miners are deciding here that they want their rewards to be higher (though, duh, every miner does, that's the nature of greed).  And if they're already proposing to jack up their own rewards, where does one draw the line for how much they should increase their own rewards?

Diff 1 = mine ltc
Diff 2 = mine ltc
Diff 3 = mine ltc
Diff 4 = mine ltc
...
Diff 24 = mine ltc
Diff 25 = mine ltc

And so on.

I think that in such case the inflation would be too high... What happens if it reaches the former feathercoin difficulty? 10^(187) coins per block look a bit too much for me.

What if you keep the actual inflation rate of 1 coin per 24 points of difficulty, but split the increase for each difficulty change? So it is like the actual expression WITHOUT the rounding to integer:

Diff 1 = 1 coin
Diff 2 = 1 + 1/23 coin
Diff 3 = 1 + 2/23 coin
Diff 4 = 1 + 3/23 coin
...
Diff 24 = 1 + 23/23 coin = 2 coins
Diff 25 = 2 + 1/23 coins

And so on.

Democracy at its best *duck and cover*

Hmm, this is a case of miners voting to increase rewards to themselves, by a rather significant amount.  I suppose you're free to do what you want to, as is the population still bothering mining the coin.  But if a little bit of something (like inflation) is good for a coin, then a lot of something must be even better, right?  Why stop at increasing the reward only by this amount?  I bet even more of the miners would be behind the idea of increasing inflation even further than your proposal.  It won't be particularly great for actual use of the currency for any real transactional purpose though, but I suspect that's not really what's on anyone's mind as the future of Elacoin, if you guys are already pushing to jack up the rate of inflation by an extraordinary amount?

How about this as an even better (for late adopter miners) proposal, taking the idea of increasing your own mining rewards and rate of inflation even further:

Reward = 10^(((int)diff)-1)

Diff 1 = 1 coin (now)
Diff 2 = 10 coins
Diff 3 = 100 coins
Diff 4 = 1000 coins
etc..



Oy...  Another case where anyone that doesn't believe changes should be made is effectively kicked off your "new and improved" blockchain by not adopting the changed client code, enforced through collusion with pool owners to effectively 51% anyone "not going along with the plan"?

 This the biggest hype fail alt-coin ever 86 pages and no windows

Milkshake, where are you?  

I think that it is good idea. The value of coin should be strongly linked with power needed to produce it. Now a lot of altcoins are massively produced at beginning and than, after few weeks, the new miner have to devote much more energy to mine the same quantity of cryptomoney. So, every day new alternative coin appears on forum...
 

Update of ELACOIN reward?

the main attraction and idea behind this coin is a proportional block reward to diff, but it's chunked off at 24 difficulty. we may or may not make it to that point.

to make it more attractive, i suggest we move up to unitary reward with difficulty. 1 diff = 1 coin (now). 2 diff = 2 coins. (rounded down).

we'd have to AGAIN repost code for this, and coordinate a blockchain fork.

i suggest we take advantage of FRC's difficulty recalculator too at the same time, if we're going to rely on diff so much. detailed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/frc-difficulty-adjustment-fork-successful-202250

any thoughts? any veterans want to help manage migration to a new blockchain?

(who's running elacoinpool.com btw, we have the other pool admins onside with this).

this suggestion would cause absolutely nothing to occur til difficulty 2 (or 3? if we dont get this done in time for 2, not sure when the next retarg is timewise at these fluxing hashrates). everything would be exactly as it is now til difficulty 2 is hit, then it's 2 coins per block, a fair reward as is the premise of this coin (we'd still keep the 194,400 block halving scaling, unless there's a reason to change that (we've already been feeling the linear effects of it, would be fair to retain it as is) and i like the smooth scaling function vs a sudden halving. not sure the benefit of a sudden halving drop).

comments?

Thanks

My account at ElaCoinPool has gone till 0.45 coins - will be able to cash out after a week.

sent you 5. we have no premine. at all. so no fountain. no funding the wiki. no funding the pools. no funding the block explorer. i dont know why that's better for an alt launch... someone tell me.

I dunno. Feel free to read the irc logs if you want, I can provide them. I cant speak to the motivations of Milkshake at the time, he went ahead and did it after many others were seeing supposed giant chain reorgs coming in from AWS ips. (course that could just be the AWS ip being well connected on one side and flooding in block updates from its side of the network).

I dont know how to judge what should 'rightfully' be mined by whomever at a certain time. I had at least 2/3rds of my blocks reject or invalidate for quite a number of hours. Symptom of block rate being faster than network diameter by a magnitude at least.

You are probably right that people should not have put trust in the stemmer if he has no actual trusted experience or expertise. But here we are - what do you advocate now, the coin is out and it is what it is (not that different from any other alt scrypt coin). Should it somehow be shutdown forcefully to waste all the hashing of those that have and are involved?

45!!

All I have is 0.1 ELC - care to send me a few too?
EUWYMachpVHPu9JYFDiDcmi9ag8YDHHU9R  Thanks!!

Interesting.  The justification for the developer checkpointing the blockchain (twice) so that the majority of mining hashpower hard-forked off onto the wrong chain each time and lost their mined blocks, is that an imaginary person failed to caution against it?

CNC was a ridiculously shitty release and premine, and early difficulty blockade of orphans. Exponential advantage to rigfarms due to blocks being faster than the network diameter lag.

And yet CNC has a diff of 41ish.

ELC can make it to 24. Consider the rewards that INCREASE after diff 24. In the meantime, its just like every other scrypt-1/POW coin til then - dont see why one wouldnt hit ELC in the meantime instead of RYC PWC CNC or the like (or even YAC/botnetcoin, for thatmatter, if not more so).

Yes, and that was probably wrong. Seeing giant reorgs of the chain can be scary shit, and it was freaking the channel out. Problem is, the release was basically at lowest diff possible so the genblock could be created quickly to get things going, but then the damn diff wasnt reset (yes, that's a fail). Of course what happened next was giant orphan chains and reorgs all over the place. Wasnt premining, but note my words: it was EXACTLY like every other altcoin release. It failed in claiming to NOT be like them, and then turned out to be exactly like them. You cant say its worse than CNC or RYC or YAC or PWC for that, cuz they were ALL the same for me (I got 0 CNC and 0 RYC, and gave up, cuz i was like 45 minutes too late or something).

Would it be nice to have a coin that launches NOT like that? Certainly. Was it this one? no. But is the market flooded with 100M early and premined coins? No, that neither. Diff was >1 by the 10 or 12k'th block - heck it was at .2 by the time i woke up after not enough sleep lol - and blocks were coming in slower than network propagation time (reducing orphans). Reorgs dropped from chunks of 20, 15, 10 to 2's and 3s. By evening reorgs were every 10-15 minutes. Now even rarer. Its stabilized, and mostly fair/proportional to whatever hashrate you throw at it.


Cpu mining for a brief period may have been worth it. Certainly their GPUs are ridiculously overpriced.


Yes, I suppose he did fuck it up. He didnt have the experience, neither did I (except I never claimed  to nor insinuated). But no one suggested against it - if AWSguy existed, he should have cautioned against it at least. No one did. (AWSguy probably never existed. Figment of imaginations gone wild watching a 0 diff blockchain frenzy creation clusterfuck). I lost coins in the 120 block reorg too and in many other giant reorgs.

I suggest no altcoin launch be taken seriously unless a trusted elderstatesman is around to guide any noobish rash action into harmlessness.

Now that all is said and done and there's a whole 15,000 coins out there, the question is what is the future? Can 15,000 early mined coins be overtaken by later mining by the increased reward? Certainly:

As I said, look at LTC's diff. 608 today. in ELC that's a block reward of 26 coins. If it were like LTC with a 50 LTC/block reward, that's _1300_ equivalent coins reward. Think of it that way. Mining _LATER_ will be worth something, unlike every other coin out there so far (modulo coins i havent heard of, and maybe hazardcoin or whatever ridiculousness is next).

If it had been released properly, without the drama, and had chosen a lower difficulty for the block reward increase, it might have stood a chance.

I dont see it either. I see them pining for bitcoin and every other coin where you mine in the first month or two at diff 50, then when new miners come onboard when it's diff 5000 and get 1/100th the reward, they're happy that all those early miner people are now millionaires just like with bitcoin.

Fair's fair right?

Problem is we're all on this forum already mining so we _ARE_ the early people, or like to THINK we will be. And if we aren't? "FAILCOIN!" "EPIC LOLS!" "FUD!" "DERP!". Scroll back a few.

No one want to think of attracting new(b) miners to bitcoin and altcoins, we're already established and throw around shibboleths like it aint no thing. But attracting miners seems to be the key to any altcoin's survival because miners are the biggest boosters of any altcoin. Need to keep attracting them. Destroying the exponential 'early miner advantage' probably galls many people who feel they EARNED the right to be a millionaire in BTC (or, more likely are a hundredaire, and pissed off they're not a tenthousandaire and so keep trolling for new alcoins early launch minefests to get to be one of them earlyminer refined upper classmen).

The coins hardly a _DAY_ old and its already dead despite attracting 200Mh/s of hashpower and three pools? NOT.

 I guess im relatively new, but what the hell is a successful coin's scrypt hashpower within what time frame? (someone post a damn graph thx) I have no idea. I know that 200Mh is a lot more than I have here, and this is only 20hrs since launch.

When diff 24 hits, we go into linear scaling. 24 = 2, 48 = 3, 72 = 4, 96 = 5. No other coin gives that. You might not like that: it wont protect your early mining wins, so you wont get to strut around like an oldskule BTC miner with your millions, but, you will be able to keep mining it for a long time profitably, unlike other coins.

Did it get 51% attacked?