Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 810. (Read 2007101 times)

Should've kept your free etc hedge, etc was fair and even ethf users got free etc. And they threw it away like cowards.

Has anyone checked the hackers ETC address on a block explorer to see if they have moved?

wow
if it will be a legal case
and reported
this guys are all known by name.
what will be there defence ?
it was no crime `?
we followed the code ?

gosh what a joke

wow thats a interesting question.
and if not will it be a legal problem ?
law and order `?

 I'm wondering if the DAO White Hat Hackers can return the funds to the DAO token holders on the Ethereum Classic chain?

little peoples point of vew on this:
as i have a few friends with ether prefork they keep asking me . do you have infos ? what happens now?
can i move the coins ?
they do have just a few its not a lot - wallets with just 40 to 100 coins each - but they liked the world computer - the promises of vitalik.
now they are both eth and etc
all they wish is move this coins and get out save.

and they feel betrayed

Yep and this was polo and several other big exchanges way of casting their vote. This is basic crypto 101 and everyone seems to feel pretty strongly about protecting what we all have built here. Ultimately it doesn't matter what eth supporters do or want,  the entire crypto ecosystem understands the implications of forking the chain for any reason other than to fix a bug or a flaw in the protocol. Profit is not the only important thing to consider, I know that's a hard thing to accept for a lot of people but that's too bad. No one should be willing to sacrifice the integrity of the technology for their own financial gain whether its because of a hack, a flaw in the code or just poor trading decisions. Any attempt to do so will likely result in a replay of the current situation. The 51% attack that eth is supporting is metaphorically the same situation. The exchanges miners and traders are the ones that will be the victims in this scenario and the fact that again they are willing to throw away their integrity to protect their money speaks volumes and if this is successful you can expect to see unprecedented back lash from the entire community.

Lol.  If that pool tries a 51% attack then they are finished for good.  This is like asking to be targeted they will likely start getting DDOSed out of existence - it takes less effort than a 51% attack and costs a lot less too.  Chandler Guo has already switched sides and said he will help with his hash power to protect ETC against any attacks.  These people are suicidal.

hmmm i tryed the 51pool page but

first this showed
 This pool is to raise enough hash rate to perform a 51% consensus attack on ETC. It is currently working as a normal pool on the ETH block chain. Once enough hash rate is reached, it will be temporarily moved to perform 51% consesus attack on the ETC chain


Stats API Temporarily Down

Usually it's just a temporal issue and mining is not affected.


and now there is a error 522

Take a look into his post-history ;-)

Are you being sarcastic?
It's giving me the shits and I've never even held any.

I'm just speculating here and of course we can say: ETC started because of idealism.

But it's not idealism that strengthened it. It's capitalism. And it's possible that the replay attacks forced exchanges to open up markets for ETC.

And that could be the major-point. Without markets there would not be much value, or if it would be traded just on a small exchange. It would be called "shitcoin" etc.

But Poloniex gave ETC credibility and a big market. Suddenly it was beneficial to mine it and it was a nice gamble to buy it - but it turned out to be beneficial as well. I did not - always too carefully ;-)

And now there are ppl who are invested and if people are invested they care. And if they care about the project they're invested in they begin to speak negative about the competitor. It's a very complex dynamic. And replay attacks most likely played a role, maybe the most important one.

Sure, this can happen to any cryptocurrency anytime there is a fork. It really hasn't ever been an issue because most developers know better than to mess with transactions, you want to fork to fix a bug cool, I don't see people revolting and trying to overturn that. But forking to save your or your investors financially? No way, look at Vericoin they did the same thing and miners, traders and everyone but the devs and a few die hard pretty much walked away. This is a valuable lesson for crypto. It seems like eth devs never considered the current situation possible, whether the money went to their head resulting in straight up arrogance or they thought eth was too big for this to occur who knows. It's pretty clear that alot of eth supporters and the devs don't understand that this can't happen. If the blockchain has someone altering it then it totally loses integrity and we all may as well pack up and go home.

The theory about replay attacks is not mine. I've read it in an article. But an interesting conclusion is very simple:

If they could have prevented it:

1. they did not because they believe it wouldn't be necessary

2. they did not because they believed it would even be advantageous

Both conclusions would be wrong. So, it's still possible that they did not because it would have been hard to prevent it or would have opened the door for other problems and time was running out. But in all scenarios it's correct to say that one "rush-out" lead into more mistakes and the need to rush out more and to make more mistakes and so on.

And this could lead into the next fail:

http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/07/31/51pool-attack-plans-51-network-attack-ethereum-classic/

It's said, and I agree:

"If this ever were to be the case – and the Ethereum community would better hope it won’t be – 51Pool will attempt to 51% attack ETC as many times as necessary.

(...)

It is evident for everyone to see this is not an effort representing the entire Ethereum community. Unfortunately, every single supporter will be caught in the crossfire of repercussions that will undoubtedly follow these attacks, if they are ever executed. The Ethereum developers can prevent all of this mess from happening if they wanted to. It will be interesting to see if they decide to intervene or not."


It's another situation for the team without a good choice. If they step in to prevent that, it would look even more as if control too much. But if the attack should happen there are only two scenarios and while only one would be bad for ETC, both would be bad for ETH. At least in short-term. And if ETC should be able to defend an attack it would even strengthen ETC and weaken ETH.

What I believe is: At least a lot of Bitcoiners never really liked Ethereum. So it's possible that ETC is also used to damage ETH. And to prepare such an attack needs too much time, so it's possible and maybe even likely that there are already miners in line to defend ETC, but not visible yet.

Under the line it's a gamble and not a smart one. And it's right what is stated in the article: The pool doesn't represent the community or the team. But of course the public won't differ much.  

i was told it is basic blockchain technology knowledge that in a hardfork it is always the risk that there is then a second chain. even more if the consensus is not all the way down to the basis.
but what do i know

That's a great theory and all but the thing is there was no intention to create etc when they forked and did the rollback that corrupted the blockchain. They hardforked to bail out their big holders and assumed the shorter fork would just go away and be a non issue. People who value what the blockchain stands for and recognize the importance of not tampering with transactions for any reason decided to keep the shorter chain alive. Eventually it became etc, but it was never something the bailout foundation thought about, created or planned for. Sorry not going to give them credit for creating etc. Facts are facts, you may be able to rollback reality at some point but not right now.

Spot on as always in your speculation.  As for what comes in the future the only certainty is uncertainty.

That is indeed an interesting question. One theory is: They hoped the replay attacks would hurt ETC but not ETH. Somebody would move ETH and also move ETC unintentionally while the ETH-team believed, ETC would be and stay worthless and die soon after the Hard fork. They didn't anticipate that exchanges would list it as reaction on the replay attacks and that ppl would buy it and miners would mine it.

So, if the theory should be right that ETH-folks believed that not to prevent replay attacks would damage ETC, it was a really bad strategy. But totally in line with some of their moves before, from DAO until the rushed out HF and their intentions to do both.

The more I think about it all the more I believe that ETH won't need more bad news regarding the tech to be doomed. It is as if they are willing to do everything to damage all credibility of the project and of the team and to bring themselves into a position without any choice to make a good decision.

And ETC - if it survives it will most likely become Ethereum again, while ETH will be called ETHF.

pumpy what i wonder is all this genius devs
why didnt they do the fork without that replay attack option ?
and why dont they help now little people how lose there coins ? arnt they interested in little people ? i mean the coin holders? to buy and sell the coin ?
doesnt a coin stay alive becouse of that people ?
did this ethereum innovaton people mention how to fix the bugs and desaster after this fork ?

yes replay attack.
the fork wasnt proper done , thats what i heard.
sorry for your loss