Topic: [ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping - page 226. (Read 2115900 times)

Factom insiders selling don't go onto Polo troll box, forums, lie, fud  the company they work for then dump 1000 BTC.

I think I'll use this opportunity to talk valuation with you all..  I am going to keep it extremely simplistic, but there is an important piece of information which I think most aren't realizing that I'll reveal.  As we know, the Series A valuation was such that Factom Inc. is valued at around 30 million by investors.  But how should Factoids be valued based upon that?

That 30 million valuation is based upon many variables.  However, to simplify things, remember that Factom Inc. regularly states that their revenue is going to be based upon earnings from providing apps/services that use the Factom Protocol (and thus Factoids).  But in reality, this just doesn't matter.  Factoids shouldn't be valued based upon Factom Inc's valuation.

Factom is creating a PROTOCOL.  Competing companies to Factom Inc. can use the protocol and will use Factoids (unless they fork and setup their own Federated and Audit servers which I doubt but am open to happening).  Non-competing companies can also use the protocol and they too will use Factoids.

I like to think of Bitcoin at TCP/IP and the Factom protocol as www.  

By investing in Factoids, you're not investing in Factom Inc.  

You're investing in the potential success of every company and individual that is going to benefit from using the www, including, but no doubt not limited to Factom Inc.

Factoids are going to have to one day be insanely valuable.  Why?  Because Federated Servers aren't that well named.  It fits for now, but at some point in the future, they'll need to be Federated Data Centers.

I've been impressed with Factom and Paul's comments regarding this situation.  It's obvious a lesson has been learned which is part of the startup process.  All startups makes mistakes, it's just appears more dramatic when the startup is under the type of scrutiny Factom is.

I view this as a positive as Factom will be able to implement sound protocols to ensure a similar situation does not arise again.  It's best to get these types of mistakes out of the way early.

I suspect we'll be seeing Factom's price recover before too long.

You've got the answer above guys:

CEO says Factom doesn't profit from FCT rise, and thats bad, because i would like have Factom to have made some needed $$$$ from that rise to fund their business

Instead, dixit Paul Snow:
"Almost all of us hold FCT personally"

and now you have all the info about who sold. When you're long from Day 1 and the stuff you own is worth couple of hundred thousands or even millions, and you have a wife screaming everyday she wants to live in a bigger and better place, well you sell, its as simple as that. you have also to add all the speculators who bought around 0.002-0.0025...and thats where you find sellers.

those who bought at 0.005 and above are the bagholders and (bad) speculators. The sellers there were the early buyers, thats how pyramids, ponzi schemes coins work...

When FCT is really used, it will rise in value.

Also yes, as someone said earlier, if Factom does not make a profit, i will lose 100% on my A-shares. So I WANT Factom to succeed.
However in the short term, even if i can see a short term bounce to 0.042-0.044 i think it will trade down even more with so many traders butt-hurt, and no sight of good news (=actual business deals) yet. Those who bought too high will have to wait quite some time to see their price again, thats how that crypto game works in any coin.

Paul has said weeks not months.. hmmm - thinking if testing goes well... we see testnet mid Oct and full release November..

https://www.reddit.com/user/paulsnow

FUD in social media responsible for recent price drop? by humbrie in factom
[–]PaulSnow 2 points 2 hours ago*
I said "a matter of weeks" for a test net on the crypto show, and I said weeks in the email. I still haven't made any firm time prediction to anyone.
I have made estimates on a quarter basis for the milestones, which have slipped. Like any project where you are pushing the envelope to get new tech out the door, it is really hard to give dates. Which is why we have never talked in terms of dates, but in terms of range.
And no date I give anyone, even when I think I have one, will trump a delay should testing find an issue that must be addressed. Testing drives this process, and it always will.
Because I haven't communicated more often, I have given people the room to spin what I have said. I should and will be more careful about how I reply to questions from random people. Even if I don't say anything I haven't said in public, giving someone an email provides opportunity to misrepresent what I say. That is on me
permalinkcontextfull comments (26)
FUD in social media responsible for recent price drop? by humbrie in factom
[–]PaulSnow 2 points 3 hours ago
Since tokens are traded on exchanges, this is harder to prove. Just an observation.
The more important observation is that Factom Inc. doesn't even hold a vast store of tokens. The Factom Foundation holds some, but far from a commanding percentage of the tokens. Way less than 10% of the tokens that exist. The balance are owned by the community.
Factom Inc. is targeting applications that use the Factom Protocol. The value of the token is factored out from the use of the protocol, so the token price doesn't impact our ability to make applications and provide services.
Almost all of us hold FCT personally, is it is important to us. And the price is critical for incentives. But token price isn't how the organization aims to make money.
permalinkcontextfull comments (26)
FUD in social media responsible for recent price drop? by humbrie in factom
[–]PaulSnow 2 points 3 hours ago
The email repeated comments I made on the Crypto Show at about 1 hour 15 minutes.
I generally repeat to individuals what I have said publicly. This has be represented as some kind of insider statement, but it was really about me repeating public statements when asked by an individual.

Nice new updates just added by Emyrk (Mr. Identity)

Added an Identity status of "SELF" and "SELF FULL". Self will be updated when keys are added, if it becomes a federated or audit server, it will be overwritten. Keeps the identity of self in the identity list...

https://github.com/FactomProject/factomd/commit/0c7e22d5cde07f06ee823f730db1ed3ea88f45d5

Poloniex would be stupid if they would participate in fraud. And to claim as a fact, that they manipulate markets themselves  - what is that? Isn't it just another rumor on the same level we've seen today about Factom?

Want to see how something like this plays out. Lol
 Watch the movie "Wars Dogs" that's out right now in theaters. It's based on a true story. The guy was so greedy and in the end what got him busted was pissing off the smallest person in the whole thing.  Even when he was warned it didn't matter. His greed got the best of him. Hogs get slaughtered.

What?

stop committing fraud

Before I post my next reply I will look first if there is something new. You are too fast. This is more a chat

Organizing a group of people to put out dis-information that you know was false for profit. Is fraud as well.  Your intent and knowing that this info isn't true and profiting from it is a crime in almost all countries.  What usually gets you busted is the scale of your actions. If you're dumping 100+ BTC on POLO it isn't hard to find you.

I didn't recognize that somebody claimed that rumors like that would be verified. Would like to see how somebody would try to verify such a claim after Factoms last overfunding.

But anyway, I see that all as spreading lies and rumors to make profit out of it. It's the opposite to the usual hype and speculations about prices.

Not a single line is written without intention. And in this forum and in the Crypto-space (and also stock-markets etc.) in general it's about financial interest. I personally like that because even wrong infos involve a lot of true infos between the lines. I nearly never believe in what is said. I focus more on the "how" and if others will believe in something. Because it's about "others" who make the prices. That's why I prefer the crazy Crypto-world with all kinds of bullshit-communication, because it gives a ton of infos. But of course, honesty and facts are rare.


Edit: I'm too slow for your edits!


You are most likely right. On stock-markets it would be most likely something that could end up in jail to do things that are usual in Crypto. But: It would be very hard to proof. I mean, I'm pretty sure that today was an orchestrated manipulation but in fact I can't be. It's also possible that somebody with a lot of Factoids was frustrated or needed money or whatever and in combination with the speculations about that mail and even more with a rising BTC-priec - dumping.

I know who knows: Poloniex.. I believe they could say what happened today if they would look into actions on the market in combination with the trollbox.

Putting out that a company is bankrupt and saying it's verified. To profit from a short is fraud.  

Organizing a group of people to put out dis-information that you know was false for profit. Is fraud as well.  Your intent and knowing that this info isn't true and profiting from it is a crime in almost all countries.  What usually gets you busted is the scale of you're actions. If your dumping 100+ BTC on POLO it isn't hard to find you.

Why fraud?

Hype and creating doubt is one thing. Blatant fraud to achieve this manipulation is a whole another set of problems.  Most legal markets have protections to stop this kind of abuse.  I've seen blatant fraud be put out "here", that in any other market there would be criminal consequences. Make no mistake about it's still illegal in almost countries to profit from fraud. So yeah I agree in one sense and disagree in another.

Until now and for the next months (maybe even years) the price doesn't say much about the success of Factom since it's not finished yet. The price shows what the market believes about future potential. And not even that is completely correct because it is always manipulated (nearly all markets are). The All-time-high was without any Factom-news. Just out of enabled margin-trading on Poloniex in combination with some talking about "Vitalik Buterin bought into the Factom-ICO" which brought some attention - most likely also used to hype.

Thing is: I'm pretty sure, but of course can't prove it, that the price would instantly shoot up if we all would know what they already have in the pipeline. I mean, they talk to potential customers and have to underline NDA's - if they could and would write about that, the price would surely react.

But again, until now the price is just a mix of pure speculation and also manipulation. If Factom will become successful, and the chances are high in my opinion, it will reflect success. But never without hype and manipulation. That will always be part of the game.

In my opinion it was a crazy dynamic that was used. First the mail and some hysterical reactions as if Paul Snow would have told a secret there. Then a rising Bitcoin-price plus weekend. It's a pretty perfect situation to dump and to underline heavy dumps with FUD. And of course the dumping is successful - the price goes down. But if I'm right it will be hard to buy back if that is part of the intention. And I believe it is, because of the order-book. So much buy-support was pulled in seconds and was back a little later. Now it is at 1k BTC again.

Sorry edited..


Yeah one other point ..

Factom does care about FCT investors. Evidenced by the CEO Paul Snow and another member coming out and posting on these forums  in response to all of this  on a Saturday.  IMO I wouldn't  doubt as they discuss this,   they will be putting out more by- monthly  general updates to keep everyone abreast and combat this type of minuplation.
**
I also think they are realizing they can't treat FCT price as inconsequential to their success because they got funding  by different means.  FCT price is a public barometer of their success and achievements, that's just public perception . In the future they may need to leverage  their factoids for funding so they must treat them as a company asset, not a by product.

Can you believe that minuplation caused FCT to lose more than 30% in a few days ? Nothing wrong with the company, no bad news. Just few people creating fear and minuplation of the price. WTF ??!! If there was ever a time to buy low! I just can't believe how successful they were at minuplating people. If you liked FCT at 50-55 there absolutely no reason you wouldn't love it now.  Nothing is actually changed except perception. Perception based on nothing but manipulation.  I'm just glad that we figured out what the hell was going on. Thanks Factom for clearing this up !

Of course they care. But usually they don't speak much about the market and they don't make marketing for the market - but they deliver. I've always seen exactly that as indication of professionalism, because I don't trust teams who show clear intentions to hype the price. But it's good that they cleared things up today for those who maybe really were concerned because of the intensity.