Topic: [ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping - page 287. (Read 2115900 times)

That's interesting. If it's 1) correct, and 2) a tendency it's a nice one.

Ancun just had a few Entries per day and now this jump to 13,586

Maybe a first sign of what I believe we will see in future:

1. Increasing number of customers
2. Increasing number of Entries per customer
3. Exploding number of Entries in summary


In my opinion that's the main-potential of Factom. If we think about market reactions everybody knows:

People react on rising volume and price. They want to know reasons why a project rises, and some even buy just because a rising price. But for many people it's also a sign to be carefully. Also trivial: Prices often crash after a sharp rise.


But Entries: It's possible that the number of Entries will increase continuous, that people will see what I say above: Points 1,2,3

And that would be new in Crypto. The market would react on an increasing or even exploding number of Entries like it normally reacts on volume and price. But Entries won't be volatile, won't crash. Without technical problems it can grow nearly unlimited. The market won't even know how to handle that, because even after a sharp rise the price could be cheap. It could be a wrong decision to sell and ATH's could still be a buy.
 


This is the doc for usage statistics:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RUZLxxoAfT3C5jIJ144DLYdztYe_sqrKqbTlZuD05-s/edit#gid=445871101

CocoLibre where did you find this chart?  Thanks.

Anyone notice the uptick in usage from Ancun? Could be a short term blip but if we start to see higher numbers(100k+) should be the start of companies actively utilizing Factom.

As I ve said, no comment. Good luck,

I'm always open for a good discussion. Thing is: You can't say I have a lack of arguments, right? You don't need to agree but if you want to discuss "stuff" you also should come up with arguments.

But now you say I've insulted you while you think it's okay to spread around I would work for Factom.

Or that you've said this:

"You do confirmed that, Factom does not provide any answers to Factoid holders, no marketing materials, no frequent updates, in one of their past posts they even say "WE DONT CARE"."

But I never said that. So, it's a little bit too optimistic to believe I wouldn't answer or reply in a nice way.



I never said "Please believe me!!! Buy more!!! Please don't sell!!!!. What I am: A supporter in some ways but just because I write down my opinion and it's positive about Factom because I like what I see in this project and how it's handled. But I'm not a shill (not even sure what that is), not a pumper, not from Factom, not an expert.



Nope. I just have time. I watch Factom and other projects, I write down my opinion, I even write down my theories just for my own. But even more I like to discuss it.

And of course, I already said Factom is my Nr. 1 but I'm not concerned that you could write it down. It's more about misleading infos you spread around. It's already hard enough for newbies to understand Factom. It doesn't need wrong infos. And it's not the first time that you are misleading.



I don't say you shouldn't write here or wherever. Feel free to write whatever you want. Just saying that I'll answer if it's bullshit. If you disagree with my opinion and my arguments, rebut it.

And man, to repeat that you believe I'm not just a holder doesn't make your claim true. In fact that's a simple red herring because you desperately need to make a point where arguments are missing. I'm the wrong person for games like that.


I didn't say that. In fact I said the opposite but you didn't like it. So let me explain what I mean with "childish behaviour:

1. You are kind of "natural-demanding".

2. Because you are so demanding you are (nearly) always disappointed.

3. Because you can't handle your disappointment you act impulsive

4. Instead of taking a look into the mirror it needs others to blame

5. The combination of 3 and 4 leads to impulsive accusations, not rational criticism

6. If you come up with rational criticism somebody like me rebuts with arguments

7. That's disappointing and you start again with 1


What it is about: Self-assurance. You hope others will agree. But I answer. And what is your reaction? To claim that I'm paid from Factom.

Thing is: Even if that would be true it would not rebut my arguments. Exactly because of that you need such a claim to make a point.
 

 

1. For me this is not personal. You say I insulted you. But you spread at least wrong rumors, if not even lies about me and you try to imply I would have made claims I never did. Again: Not personal, but I'll never react just friendly on something like that.

2. You are free to do whatever you want, so am I.

I considered you a person I could discuss stuff with. However, since you call me mentally childish and at the same time do nothing but BS about how Factom s about to be great but you see it s still at the beginning and will develop in the future, it s obvious you have some kind of angle here beyond being a holder.

You know how many times I ve heard this line, it s just the beginning but it s gonna be huge. Dozens of times and almost every time it ends up being pure BS. Also, almost every times that BS gets hyped by a lot of shills, supporters, pumpers and so called experts.

You last paragraph tells it all. You ve got problem with me critiquing Factom cause it might affect your desire to get profits. I don't give a shit about that, I m very light in Factom and I do trade it all the time. Also, I ll keep posting about Factom here or anywhere else so your wish for people here to be nice and pink about Factom s really not my problem but it adds to my previous belief you re not just a holder.

Still, that does not mean I m going to intentionally bashing Factom or any other project, not even close.

Anyway, since you ve started insulting me, I m done talking to you, I m not gonna go down to that level to respond in kind. Thank you for exchange of opinions and please do not comment my posts anymore. If you do, do not expect me to reply back to you.

It's not wrong what you say here. Factoid-holders could spread the word - potentially. But: It's too early. Because we would not reach companies. They do. We would reach people like us - individuals. And it would make sense, also regarding Factom's use case, if there would be already applications for private persons. And if the system will have quality and more and more people understand what will be possible with Factom, it can be expected that there also will be a growing numbers of applications for private people - like photo-app's, easy-to-use apps to factomize files with drag and drop, maybe even something in the gaming sector, maybe some app's for artists and so on. There is a lot potential I believe.

But for now thousands of Investors would just make "marketing" for the market.


 
No. I did not say that! I said: "They could be a little bit more communicative" and that I understand that they are not more communicative. I did not say that they don't give answers and it wouldn't be true to claim that. Because they do. Mostly Brian Deery and most of the times on reddit. But also here. And some questions are not really worth to answer because a lot of questions already imply lazy behavior. And I understand that they don't reply on all of those questions.

And there are also marketing materials. They did a lot of good marketing. Just look into the Ann of this thread. Watch their videos. There was this three days ago:

Factom Developer Insights - Paul Snow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50gGy59cGq4

This was some days before:

Factom Developer Insights - Brian Deery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcEZNeypL7M


Two days ago their announcement: https://www.factom.com/smartcontract-factom-announce-collaboration/

They're active on Twitter: https://twitter.com/factom?lang=de

I really don't know how you can say that they don't give frequent updates! Paul Snow talks about M2 by the way. He does not say when it will be released, but they are pretty open.



See, what you do here is: First you make a claim that has no base to come to a conclusion that are based on that, which means there is no base!

And that is either a sign that you are not informed and that you don't really care about what they provide, or it is a manipulative attempt to make a point. And I believe it's both. If you would do it smarter I would even say: You are paid. I don't say that because I see no strategy. But that doesn't change the fact that you repeatedly spread des-info.  




If Factom's marketcap would go to hundreds of millions of $ or even $1 bn now, it would be totally overbought. It wouldn't have base at this point. I mean, you can calculate how much demand it would need to give a high marketcap like that base. What you want is pump and dump - but why should they want it? For them it wouldn't even be good marketing because something like that gives an opposite signal of what they want. It always gives a shady impression! They would have to face questions about their intentions and priorities.

And exactly that are the questions to answer about Ethereum! You say "larger market cap, higher price"  - but where is any base for such prices? Would a market cap of $50 Mio change anything in terms of use? Does it need a high Ether-price to execute smart contracts?

And where are useful smart contracts? Where are the businesses who really use Ethereum or just say that they will use it? What I know is that some companies use Ethereum to research Smart Contracts - but that is not the same. Because what I believe is: Ethereum is a laboratory and many are interested in it, also companies. But as a scientific project. They learn out of Ethereum and they also learn out of their mistakes and  flaws in it's code. What they most likely learn is that overcomplex systems won't do a good job. I believe many learn now that Ethereum is no platform they should ever use.

So, if you can show me signifacant stuff - please. Maybe there is. I'm not totally informed. But what I know is that there was a research about smart contracts on Ethereum and a high percentage is totally buggy. And the fact that even Ethereum-Dev's were not able to develop theDAO secure, the fact that it was totally damaged already two weeks after launch - that says a lot.

And it's existence as hyped up and overfunded "social-experimental-investment-company-whatever-project" also showed priorities. TheDAO was the most revealing "thing" I've ever seen in Ethereum. I always believed that the market is manipulated and I believed that the team is involved. But: While manipulation is obvious but not unusual, I can't be sure and I can't prove involvement of the team.

But TheDAO showed much more. It showed the will to take a high risk for the eco-system to get funds for Ethereum itself. The slock.it-guys are members of Ethereum. And they developed theDAO. They wanted it to fund slock.it. They wanted a pretty high salary from theDAO to care about it's security! Monthly salary! They wanted to make a living out of it. If it would have gone as planned it would be the best deal ever. But, where would have been the real value? Slock.it? Other Ethereum-projects? Or was theDAO aimed to buy a farm?

Really, it's very interesting to watch and it's very revealing. I always were careful with Ethereum because I believe that complexity is risk and it all was way too fast in combination with a lack of precision. But theDAO: I call it shady. The hack is a result of bad code. But it's existence with such a high funding and the hype around it and that they hyped it with own millions - something was and is wrong with it. The Hard Fork is just another proof for me.

So, for me nothing is left in Ethereum. The price has zero base. Ethereum is a very ambitious project but totally damaged. The code seems to be deeply flawed (not my opinion, just what I've read), the immutability of the blockchain is injured, the credibility of the team went from 90% to 20% or even less, there is a competitor now on the original chain which could be called: Original Ethereum but abandoned from the original team! There will be most likely legal consequences and I'm not educated on that side but there will be most likely more concerning news.

What is good in Ethereum? Like I've said, I always were carefully and didn't buy. But I had a lot of respect because it is very ambitious and the team seemed to be professional. My opinion about it has changed now. If I should be forced to buy it, I would buy ETC and not ETH.




Wow, just three lines and so much *********:

1. "True, DAO was not delivered as it should. However, I d always go first for those transparent and consumer friendly ones"

So, theDAO is consumer-friendly? What is consumer-friendly? TheDAO was Hacker-friendly. So yes. Let's say it was consumer-friendy.


Factom is not "consumer-friendly"? They focus highly on being customer-friendly. But you are a speculator or more a gambler.


2. "it s my money and I want to get something in exchange."

Ah, ok. So, who has your money? Factom?

The guy you bought from has your money. If you want "something" in exchange, go and sell your FCT's and you have BTC to invest in something "consumer-friendly". Maybe you'll find another money-burner. ;-)




3. "without early investors Factom would not be where it is now."

Not sure about that. The ICO wasn't that much money. And even if it was a start: You didn't buy into the ICO or am I wrong? What have you done for Factom? You are supportive, right? Spreading des-info. Of course, they owe you some hundred percentage of profit in the next hours.

And if you mean us with early Investors, because we bought after launch: It wouldn't make much difference if any. If the price is 20 cent or 20 Dollar doesn't change anything. Not regarding the system and also not regarding it's use or the price for Entry Credits. Factom can't be attacked over the market --> another point why I really like it.


That's a funny question. But I'll give you a serious answer: Everything.

Why? Because you can't even call it logical!

1. Is it rational to be invested and to spread des-info?
2. Is it logical to claim that you want something in exchange for your money if you never gave money to Factom? And if: You could count your profit! Some hundreds %.
3. Is it logical to be demanding and to believe anybody of them would care if they see that you act like a troll?
4. Is it logical to be invested but not to be informed about basics?
5. Is it logical to call something like theDAO "consumer-friendly"?
6. Is it logical to call Ethereum (or TheDAO) transparent?


Really I could list up more. Nothing makes sense here and that's why I like it. You are my x-file. ;-) But seriously, I don't get it. If you would do it smarter I maybe really would believe a competitor pays you. But it doesn't make sense.

What I believe is: You are just mentally childish. Like a demanding child that writes a wishletter for christmas one day after easter and says "job is done, where is the Santa?". And seriously: It's irrational. It's not in line with reality. It wouldn't ever be smart if they would act like you would want them to act. It would damage Factom because it would hurt their credibility while they would focus on wasting time instead of using it most effective.

I see no logic. There is one point I'm able to understand: You want profit and you want it as soon as possible. Same here. But while I at least try to be supportive you are destructive - without any effect but still. And what I believe is: With that attitude you already lost a lot of money. Can't proof it and I can't say I really care. But I would be surprised if it's possible to make money without acting rational.



 

I agree partially, Factom is an opportunity, it MIGHT deliver something in the future. It is a gamble but every big deal in past also was a gamble at some point. What I do not agree is the fact neither them and it seems nor you understand the marketing potential of Factoid holders. You can end up using full Factom potential by exchanging cash for entry credits and burning Factoids in the process. However, why not use thousands of Factoid holders to do big time marketing for you as well? What company would disregard that and focus only on data entry? You ve confirmed that, Factom does not provide any answers to Factoid holders, no marketing materials, no frequent updates, in one of their past posts they even say "WE DONT CARE". Why would any smart and product oriented team do that? That s simply very, very stupid. Even companies with billions in market cap do that, they still FOCUS on their small consumers and holders cause they do understand the value of marketing and the fact that clients and holders need to be satisfied.

I also agree Ether does it much more differently and this is why the market has responded in much larger market cap, higher price and significant number of companies building stuff around Ether. True, DAO was not delivered as it should. However, I d always go first for those transparent and consumer friendly ones. Why? Cause it s my money and I want to get something in exchange. I do not have a business related to data entry and without early investors Factom would not be where it is now.

So, what s wrong with my logic?

Haha well said Tempus!

"way too optimistic"

If you read my posts with all my speculations and calculations about optimistic scenarios you'll find out: I always say "if they should be successful", "if they deliver the system how it's planned", "if it will be stable" and so on. Because that is my personal conclusion: If they will deliver quality I have no doubt that it will be used and that it will grow.

So, I would say I'm optimistic because I believe that they are able to deliver quality and obviously they want to do that and obviously they're working hard. But I'm not too optimistic, because I also said multiple times: This is a high risk market. It's impossible to be on the safe side.


"big time personal interest"

I'm invested. And it's my number 1 Investment. So, yes.



"(...) an interest beyond being a holder. This is why you end up arguing with 10 different people at the same time."


I like it to discuss and I like controversial discussions. That can be called "beyond being a holder". I discuss also in other threads without being invested. What I don't like is superficiality and ignorance. If you want to do some psycho-analyses tell me why it triggers me that much. ;-)



"I would go as far and say you work for Factom"

No need to pay me and I doubt they would use and pay sockpuppets. My support for Factom is because I honestly believe in this project and also the team. And different to somebody like you, who is constantly demanding and in a superficial and ignorant way destructive, I don't want to be just a parasite who wants to make profit out of the work of others.

And just by the way: I also was critical in some points. I was very critical because the wallet did not work for me and I felt very unsafe with my Factoids on Polo but it's fine now. There is nothing I'm really critical about now. They could be a little bit more communicative but I understand that they are not.



"please, stop praising them that much"

I just say my personal opinion and I'm honest about it. It's not praising. If I would want to act like that I would write short posts with simple messages - like it's common in Crypto --> "Soon this will go to mooooooon!"


Once more, it all comes down to the market, the invisible hand is what determines the price. Having 1k volume on Polo shows what the market currently thinks about Factom compared to 15x that ETH and ETC volume. Yes, that same broken, stolen from and trashed ETH. Why? You tell me why is this?

I explained it multiple times. I wrote long posts about (psychological) market dynamics with focus on Factom and in comparison to Ethereum:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15634362


The short version is:

The team behind Factom is doing everything to lower barriers for potential customers to use Factom.

They do nothing to lower barriers to buy Factoids. They don't explain why it could be a good buy. They don't use the usual triggers to manipulate ppl into buying. They are not very communicative with the Crypto-Community. They simplify everything regarding "us" (crypto-folks) to what is needed. They give all infos and they give news. But it is as if they say: "Everybody is self-responsible". They won't do any work that should be done from those who are interested. I mean, questions like "where do I find the wallet" are in fact stupid. I answer it because I have time for that. But somebody who really cares should just go on their site. It's not much work. And the team doesn't care about things like that and I would see a bad sign, a red flag, if they would. I see it all on "green" because they show a lot of intention and motivation to deliver a useful system and all the partnerships show that they do a good job - also on the business-side.

What you don't get is the fact, that exactly the situation on the market is an opportunity.

I try to make it easy: There are 100% participants in this market and let's say 90% know what Ethereum is and what it is about, even if most likely not even 5% understand it deeply. Those who want to be invested in Ethereum are or were invested. The marketcap already was at $1.5 bn! There is not that much room left and in the current situation it's even a high risk because it is about to turn against ETH. There is a lot of room for a price-decline.


For Factom my estimation is more like only 20% know about Factom. Many see it on the exchange but the majority knows near to nothing and it's not easy to get into it - to understand it and why it has potential. If I would be wrong with that there would be more questions and also more who already know more. But there is an increasing tendency. There are a lot of indications for that. And I believe there will be hype. But not because of manipulative attempts of the team.

Under the line the current situation is potential, also on the psychological side - the market.

Ethereum: I believe it's the total opposite in nearly all points. And btw: One reason, maybe the major reason is, that they are focused on the price and that they've rushed things out for money. DAO is a proof and the mess they are in is a result. If I would see signs for such an approach in Factom I would dump most of my Factoids.

U re obviously way too optimistic about this project and I can only say it seems like you have a big time personal interest in this, an interest beyond being a holder. This is why you end up arguing with 10 different people at the same time. I would go as far and say you work for Factom or smth but even if you do, please, stop praising them that much. I know you re not trying to generate a HIPE cause I see you know a lot about crypto.

Once more, it all comes down to the market, the invisible hand is what determines the price. Having 1k volume on Polo shows what the market currently thinks about Factom compared to 15x that ETH and ETC volume. Yes, that same broken, stolen from and trashed ETH. Why? You tell me why is this?

Awesome, can't wait to see hat kind of Oracles are created.

Oh boy, try it with logic. If they would like to hype the price up they would have done exactly that! They could manipulate the market however they would like.

But if you want to talk about your concerns, please go more into detail:

1. Why is it wrong in your opinion if a company offers shares to Investors to get funds? And what would be better?

2. Do you criticize just the "buzzword" smart contracts, or do you believe all partnerships are just words but non-existent?

3. And if you believe the partnerships are real, do you think they should avoid "buzzwords"? Because that would be hard if they partner with "smartcontract.com", and "smart contract" is a buzzword, right?

 

May I ask what's your vision of future blockchain development? Is it stagnation with what Bitcoin is?

On a side note: if you had read the news accurately, you've noticed that Factom is not introducing smart contracts. Moreover they're building a trustworthy data source of non blockchain data (aka oracle) to make them accessable to smart contracts on other platforms. But why do I tell you this...you don't seem to be really interested 

and YET ANOTHER share offering from Factom. Factom is a bottomless pit of spending that generates NOTHING of value. Just one fund offering after another, while they put out periodic hype updates using the latest buzzwords. Oh look, Ethereum had success with smart contracts, time for Factom to add smart contracts, maybe that will hype the price 

"Big things has small beginning"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCdQkgSwNoU

there is still time remaining 15 days of the investment period so we wont see the effect before the period end. I think it would increase the price of course.. since they need factoid for everything.

You write so funny things!  

Let's think about it... who was it who sold his Factoids to buy into the damaged Ethereum? You really believe it makes sense to see a "HYIP" in the Factom share sale but not in Ethereum? In fact both are no HYIP's, but Ethereum seems to be doomed. And the market is manipulated. But even whales will cash out at one point and than it's about the race who is first to press the buttons.  

And you believe a market full of superficial gamblers who make prices just because they react on prices, which is the opposite of "smart money", should be a qualified source for a confirmation of another price? You turn things upside down! It's so irrational that it's funny again.


But seriously: This view on things is exemplary for the market. I mean, there are many smart Investors. But the majority is so arrogant and ignorant and superficial and lazy... it's enough reason for the fact that Ethereum is still way overpriced and Factom is still under the radar, while the next roulette just has started: ETC - number 1 by volume now.

That will be entertaining for weeks, maybe months!


Btw: My analysis why ETC could survive and ETH could die: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15750720

As long as the Factoid price does not confirm that, I see that as a classic HYIP for something which should be in the future. The price MUST go up. How the fuck is that damaged ETH still priced that much higher compared to FCT??

how are the tokens generated