[ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched! - page 351.

localhost

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Quote from: bulanula on November 24, 2011, 04:20:31 PM

If the network can't really handle all the TX spam how will it handle when real volume starts working and the spam is actually real transactions. Is this system scalable ? We don't really know. TX spam is quite useful in a way. Test the reliability of our systems. Many were down etc.

Indeed. There's a double issue there:
- first, the many tiny transactions grew the block chain with junk, plainly blocking them by a fee like it was done is good enough, it's fixed alright.
- second, it seems that those many transactions made some clients become slow as hell or even crash, and here we can ask ourselves what will happen when we actually have that many legitimate transactions...

bulanula

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If the network can't really handle all the TX spam how will it handle when real volume starts working and the spam is actually real transactions. Is this system scalable ? We don't really know. TX spam is quite useful in a way. Test the reliability of our systems. Many were down etc.

amazingrando

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Quote from: CAMOPEJB on November 23, 2011, 05:16:53 PM

And it WAS Design contest so please read thread up Wink

PS. Background is transparent and it represents lightness of Litecoin Grin

Guess I haven't been following it as closely as I should! I understand the new logo now. But somehow I don't think it captures the awesomeness of litecoin. Grin

Should have added my two cents when I could!

coblee

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Quote from: CAMOPEJB on November 23, 2011, 06:51:55 PM

Thanks for fast response

So, basically, I was right: 100LTC with 6 confirmations are free of fee Cool

Yes, you are right. 100 LTC is only about $1.25 in Today's exchange rate.

CAMOPEJB

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Thanks for fast response

So, basically, I was right: you can send 100 and more LTC with 6 confirmations free of fee Cool

coblee

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Quote from: CAMOPEJB on November 23, 2011, 05:50:03 PM

Quote from: terrytibbs

The blockexplorer and forums will be down for a couple of hours while i make some hardware changes

And what about:
http://litecoin.kicks-ass.org/graphs/graphs.html
and
http://allchains.info/

I think they need our help to back online....

molecular is working on upgrading his computer. So kick-ass graphs has been down for a while. This is not related to the transaction spam.

I just talked to Sp0tter about allchains. He ran into memory issues and he's working on getting that back up.

coblee

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Quote from: CAMOPEJB on November 23, 2011, 05:16:53 PM

Quote from: localhost on November 23, 2011, 04:36:56 PM

Also, maybe I missed something, but I thought there was still a small amount of free transactions in a block, only they have lower priority. (or maybe this was changed too?)

Every transaction above 100 LTC is high priority and free Cool

Quote from: amazingrando on November 23, 2011, 02:18:34 PM

It's great that Litecoin now has its own logo, but I have to say that the color scheme is quite awful. The "L" is quite muted and set against a very drab background color. Couldn't we come up with something better? Maybe offer some LTC from the faucet to have someone design something catchy?

There was no premine so no faucet, sorry....
And it WAS Design contest so please read thread up Wink

PS. Background is transparent and it represents lightness of Litecoin Grin

In order for a standard transaction to qualify for a free no-fee transaction, it must have 1 litecoin day worth of value. So the inputs times number of confirmations must be greater than 576. (576 = number of blocks found in a day) So if you send 577 coins with 1 confirmations, it will qualify. Or 1 coin with 577 confirmations. If you really need to send 6 coins for free, you just need to wait for 96 confirmations (about 4 hours). Like DeathAndTaxes said, a sub 2% transaction fee for sending 6 cents is really cheap! If you really can't afford the 0.1 ltc, then wait 4 hours after receiving those coins before you can send them for free.

Think about this. If you are constantly receiving and sending these small amounts, your transactions basically looks like spam to the network. And that's what these fees are there to prevent in the first place.

CAMOPEJB

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Quote from: terrytibbs

The blockexplorer and forums will be down for a couple of hours while i make some hardware changes

And what about:
http://litecoin.kicks-ass.org/graphs/graphs.html
and
http://allchains.info/

I think they need our help to back online....

localhost

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 23, 2011, 05:06:44 PM

I guess I should have said transfer $0.06 multiple times and quickly. The number of free "slots" is limited and there may already be multiple free transactions waiting thus it could be a "while" before a free small transaction clears.

Ok, then that was what I understood. I think if someone wants to be cheap they can at least cope with the idea that maybe their free tiny transaction will be somewhat slower. When you're in a hurry usually you can afford some cent to speed up the transaction... It happened quite often that I reserved a train ticket an hour earlier for an extra 10€ after all... Time is money, etc.

CAMOPEJB

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Quote from: localhost on November 23, 2011, 04:36:56 PM

Also, maybe I missed something, but I thought there was still a small amount of free transactions in a block, only they have lower priority. (or maybe this was changed too?)

Every transaction above 100 LTC is high priority and free Cool

Quote from: amazingrando on November 23, 2011, 02:18:34 PM

It's great that Litecoin now has its own logo, but I have to say that the color scheme is quite awful. The "L" is quite muted and set against a very drab background color. Couldn't we come up with something better? Maybe offer some LTC from the faucet to have someone design something catchy?

There was no premine so no faucet, sorry....
And it WAS Design contest so please read thread up Wink

PS. Background is transparent and it represents lightness of Litecoin Grin

DeathAndTaxes

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Quote from: localhost on November 23, 2011, 04:36:56 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 23, 2011, 02:27:47 PM

Quote from: forsetifox on November 23, 2011, 02:22:59 PM

Again a .1 fee to transfer 6 LTC kinda sucks.

Is there really a need to transfer $0.06 equivalent?

Also, maybe I missed something, but I thought there was still a small amount of free transactions in a block, only they have lower priority. (or maybe this was changed too?)

I guess I should have said transfer $0.06 multiple times and quickly. The number of free "slots" is limited and there may already be multiple free transactions waiting thus it could be a "while" before a free small transaction clears.

localhost

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 23, 2011, 02:27:47 PM

Quote from: forsetifox on November 23, 2011, 02:22:59 PM

Again a .1 fee to transfer 6 LTC kinda sucks.

Is there really a need to transfer $0.06 equivalent?

Also, maybe I missed something, but I thought there was still a small amount of free transactions in a block, only they have lower priority. (or maybe this was changed too?)

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: amazingrando on November 23, 2011, 04:01:35 PM

I get that, but I'm not speaking from the perspective of the technical blockchain mechanics. Instead, I am thinking more along the lines of making ltc (or btc for that matter) economically feasible in as many scenarios as possible, thereby maximizing the potential for innovation and usage. If there are limitations resulting from the way transactions and the blockchain works, then that is just something we need to deal with.

I think you might be confusing economically feasible w/ perfect.

Paying a 1% fee on a 10 cent transaction is pretty damn good. There is no payment method in the world that is that cheap w/ the exception of maybe cash. In an meaningful transaction volume accepting 10 cent coins is going to require a bank drop or armored car pickup and thus your cost is still >1%.

amazingrando

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Yes, I think that's right. By "deal with it" I mean that a percentage fee won't be possible due to such technical limitations.

btc_artist

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Bitcoin!

Quote from: amazingrando on November 23, 2011, 04:01:35 PM

If there are limitations resulting from the way transactions and the blockchain works, then that is just something we need to deal with.

Unless my understanding of Bitcoin is way off, I don't know if they can be dealt with, without completely changing the bitcoin protocol. If I have 100BTC at address X and I send you 1BTC, then 99BTC gets sent back to me via a "change" address. All Bitcoin sees is 100BTC going to 2 addresses, how is it supposed to know to only charge the fee on 1BTC as opposed to the full 100BTC?

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 23, 2011, 03:48:07 PM

The whole point of the fee is to
a) CREATE A PENALTY for small transactions and thus make spam uneconomical.
b) charge for space in the block which has everything to do w/ the transaction size (in kb) and not the transaction value (in LTC).

I get that, but I'm not speaking from the perspective of the technical blockchain mechanics. Instead, I am thinking more along the lines of making ltc (or btc for that matter) economically feasible in as many scenarios as possible, thereby maximizing the potential for innovation and usage. If there are limitations resulting from the way transactions and the blockchain works, then that is just something we need to deal with.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: amazingrando on November 23, 2011, 02:34:07 PM

I would like a percentage fee too. I think the question is whether there is enough aggregate volume of microtransactions for it to make sense to do it this way. Moreover though, it would seem to reduce friction if it was percentage based - everybody pays the same portion and there is no penalty for transacting in small amounts.

The whole point of the fee is to
a) CREATE A PENALTY for small transactions and thus make spam uneconomical.
b) charge for space in the block which has everything to do w/ the transaction size (in kb) and not the transaction value (in LTC).

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: bulanula on November 23, 2011, 02:31:06 PM

I frequently transfer small amounts of crypto coins under 10 units so I suggest we use a percentage fee and not a fixed fee. Can we make the fee be like 1% or something based upon the amount you are transferring ?

The network has no concept of how much you are sending only the value of the address where coins are coming from. If you send 10 LTC from an address with 1000 LTC the network fees that as a 1000 LTC transaction.

The purpose of fees is to reduce spam attacks. If the fee was % based it would make that protection useless.

In any block chain the amount of coins is meaningless. It doesn't take any more space in a block to transfer 1M LTC/BTC then it does to transfer 0.000000001 LTC/BTC so charging as a % misaligns the resource (space in the block) and price. Transactions using a lot of space could be charged a small amount, and transactions taking up negligible space could be charged magnitudes more.

amazingrando

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Quote from: bulanula on November 23, 2011, 02:31:06 PM

I frequently transfer small amounts of crypto coins under 10 units so I suggest we use a percentage fee and not a fixed fee. Can we make the fee be like 1% or something based upon the amount you are transferring ?

I would like a percentage fee too. I think the question is whether there is enough aggregate volume of microtransactions for it to make sense to do it this way. Moreover though, it would seem to reduce friction if it was percentage based - everybody pays the same portion and there is no penalty for transacting in small amounts.

bulanula

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I frequently transfer small amounts of crypto coins under 10 units so I suggest we use a percentage fee and not a fixed fee. Can we make the fee be like 1% or something based upon the amount you are transferring ?

Topic: [ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched! - page 351. (Read 1467253 times)