Topic: [ANN] [MΣC] Megacoin.co.nz - Forum, Github, Website Now in 18 Languages - page 182. (Read 330771 times)

The issue is that the graph here is in relation to time...not blocks (thanks for the graph though by the way -- appreciate the effort.) A graph with network speed/blocks/difficulty would be a better comparison. While I'm struggling to make sense of the difficulty calculation formula, my guess is that a speed/blocks/difficulty would be consistent with history.

The intended target is to find ~24 blocks/hour. Instead, due to the difficulty lag and the reduction in network hash power, we're closer to finding 1 block/hour. As a result, all graphs based on time are going to be a bit misleading. The time helps to show the frustration factor, sure, but all of the calculations are based on blocks. Me labeling the formula as "flawed" earlier was probably not the best choice of wording -- the formula just needs to better factor in the behavior of everyone on the network -- especially bringing multipools into the equation.

Does anybody know for sure what is being used to calculate the difficulty? Even if the previous 200 blocks were being used the difficulty should be around 3 right now after the latest retarget...and I can't imagine more than 200 blocks would factor into the equation. It must be using a combination of various factors; some transparency here would be appreciated so we can at least estimate where we are at and where we are heading. Obviously we could put a bunch of additional time into it and analyze data, sort through the source, etc...but nothing would be more accurate (nor more simple) than Kimoto just explaining it to us.

I have a new pool almost ready - total build of the pool software from ground up. I am working full time on it and should be ready within 7 days - its mostly finished but its always the last 10% that seems to take the longest  .

Here are a couple of screen shots.. (Showing GIL stats on the screen shot as I have been testing with low difficulty coins - but will be releasing with MEC first)



And another:

Definently something is not right, the graph shows it, no further calculations are even needed.

another spreadsheet with a graph (I like data) of the total network hash rate and difficulty (polled from my megacoin-qt rpc about every 5 minutes)

The scaled diff is just difficulty times 100 so details appear in the graph.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArV2MHjf7HT0dFhtQmRBV2FWQ0syQVR3TTRLcWpya0E&single=true&gid=1&output=html

I posted because 48 hours had passed since the adjustment...and I realized that I was making up 80% of the hash power on the network and no updates were being posted nor any concern being expressed anywhere. I put a pencil to it, and with my miners removed, it would have taken 1 1/2 more months before the difficulty would be low enough to attract miners (and that was assuming the value held.) The value here is relevant, because obviously people choose what to mine (or the multipools choose for them) based on the difficulty and market value at that given moment. I wanted to open up a discussion before Megacoin was dead -- I've had conversations alluding to the fact that if things didn't turn around within another week, it would no longer be listed on the exchanges. We would literally have to bring it back from the dead.

I'm not trying to make people panic -- the panic already happened man. The trade price has dropped 50% -- the panic part is over. I was pointing out the problem on this forum because nobody else had (that I saw, anyway.) Obviously you noticed the problem before the post -- I'm sure a ton of people noticed! I wanted reassurance something was being done about it.

I'm not asking anybody to shower me with praises -- I just think it's ridiculous the way you are reacting to the whole thing. I'm sure you would like to preserve your investment as well...but the difference is you'd rather walk away and let everyone else take the hit for you. It's the popular choice -- I could have easily walked away and let everyone else sort it out as well. None of this would affect the value of my investment long-term.

It's out there in the open, we have the dev looking into the solution -- why are you even participating in this discussion? You bring nothing to the table and the entire thread is now polluted with bickering back-and-forth. Your motivation for being a dick eludes me. It's out of our hands now and being addressed by the proper people. Maybe I had nothing to do with speeding the process along...but we're 3 days in here and nothing was happening before -- now it is.

Seriously -- what are you arguing about at this point?

Let's go MEC!!! Been mining through the good and bad days! I'm committed as most of you are.
Keep up the good work Kimoto!

Step back guys... just relax and wait until everything is fixed... hopefully soon.

I remain calm because I know Kimoto will make the necessary changes not just with this problem, but any others that may arise in the future.  I do not want to incite panic at a time when confidence is paramount.  That is why I encourage others to remain calm and confident as well.  All of us here are just as concerned about Megacoin's future as you are. We all could see that Mec was having trouble adjusting its difficulty lower before you posted anything, you did us no favors in that regard.  Also, its fine if you post personal attacks toward me but you are not going to get much respect calling the community thankless and acting like they should be showering you with praises for "taking one for the team".  You are mining MEC because you want to preserve the value of your own coins, so quit with the good samaritan bullshit.  Now, If my previous comments were insulting to you I apologize and agree we should move on.
 

Thanks for this info.  
I had estimated off hand previously that the difficulty adjustment was based on an average of the last 100-200 blocks, giving it a slight delay that is more pronounced with the low hash rate.

built a quick spreadsheet showing average block duration and difficulty adjustments as percentages for the past 2 days using http://blockexplorer.co/ data.

only have from block 42201 (last difficulty shift) as http://blockexplorer.co/ is currently down
(really wish it included total network hash rate)

with a block target of 2.5 minutes, red numbers are below the target (diff too easy), green above (diff too hard)

HTH

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArV2MHjf7HT0dHFSOUNKX01rTWthMEI3ZmFnRHp1R3c&single=true&gid=1&output=html

In the mean time, let's all throw our hashing power at this and find some blocks!

MEGACOIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

It will work itself out this time man -- we're all agreeing there. Are you trying to make a point here? Where did I say it will never work out? My entire point was that some adjustments needed to be made...and the only reason it was slowly progressing was because of people like me that took a hit to keep it moving. If Kimoto makes changes to avoid this situation in the future, obviously it won't be an issue again. That's my entire point! I didn't make the post just to complain -- I made the post to bring attention to the situation and start moving toward a resolution. Obviously there are solutions here! If nobody cared more about the integrity of the network than you, then you would have been mining Megacoin this entire time after the halving. You haven't...and others have -- I think most would agree those of us that kept mining and losing money doing so just to chip away at blocks and get the difficulty down care more about the network than you do. Your bounties are appreciated...your comments regarding this situation were not. There is obviously a flaw in the calculations (or at least a flaw due to the current state of mining -- not saying it was a mistake originally) and if everyone reacted to the reward reduction like you did (and most people did) by walking away and waiting it out we'd still be sitting at block 42001. It's difficult to sell people on losing money to bring a network back to life so that people like you can hop back in once it is resolved and start raking in profit. We've also proven here that it's a thankless job -- for trying to move things along people will actually look down on you for it. What's the advantage of being a jerk about it?

Basically, you should have kept your original comment to yourself and let us hash this thing out. There was clearly a situation here that needed to be addressed and you've brought nothing constructive to the discussion. Now that Kimoto is on the case, lets let him take it from here. As much value as you think you're bringing to the discussion by saying, "just walk away like me and let everyone else waste their time and money until it works itself out" I see it differently. Yes -- that is the opinion of most...and I'm not surprised at all by the fact that you don't understand how this works. But if everybody quits mining in 30 days when the reward drops again and there isn't some kind of fork/etc...it won't work itself out. This is pretty basic stuff, man. Lets address the issue now instead of down the road when it happens again -- that's all I'm saying. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here but lets just move on.

I'm trying to setup a MEC pool myself.  Do you have any advice/tutorials?

You response is appreciated, Kimoto. Checking into it is all I ask. Like I said before, you probably hadn't accounted for the popularity of currency-hopping and multipools when you designed the algorithm...but it multiplies the problem considerably. Another issue is the lack of dedicated Megacoin mining pools to spread things out -- the only (active) mining pool I am aware of was at multipool.us when the reward halving took place...and most people decided to just switch to the multipool port since they were already there. We're talking about a virtually instantaneous reduction in has power by over 80% once the reward was reduced...and it continued to taper off rapidly after that. The only people left mining were either clueless, forgot they were even mining, or people like me more concerned with keeping things rolling than immediate profit. I only changed my mind and walked away when it was clear the community didn't really care how things played out.

I've gone on about this ad nauseum at this point and I'm sure we're on the same page so I won't continue to beat it into the ground. Just a frustrating situation when I invested so much in getting things back on track and the masses that just decided to look the other way have no idea where I'm coming from.

You've done an awesome job with Megacoin -- there is a reason I'm as passionate about this situation as I am. I trust that you will get this all figured out and make the decision you feel is best; I will support you regardless.

Listen, nobody cares more about the network integrity than I do.  I paid bounties out of my own MEC to have the first pools and block explorer set up back when many thought it would fail.  I'm telling you it will work out and Kimoto will make any changes that are needed.

Kimoto, thank you for renewing everyone's faith!

Will do a compile test today on Ubuntu and fix any errors and post updated source.  In meantime the old client functions the same minus the interface.

Good morning bholzer. It was partially expected, but you are right its a long wait. I am going over the calculations and history now.

Alien is half right...if people react. There was a steady drop in hash rate for two days...and only now are people slowly chipping in. For almost 48 hours my 35MH made up almost the entire network. I didn't want to drop out for fear it would kill Megacoin...but after getting killed on profits for 2 days, nobody else chipping in, and a neutral reaction to my concerns (not to mention no information from the dev) I had to call it quits.

I just moved one of my machines over to the Megacoin multipool to continue to help...but I can't justify more than that. It's just annoying when Alien plays it off with his "sky is falling" comment yet does nothing to impove the integrity of the network by chipping in. These punks sit around mining something more profitable and view us as a charity. As soon as things are profitable again they will be right back mining. It's easy to be nonchalant about it when you helped create the problem and have nothing invested in attempting to solve it.

My entire point is that this retarget formula needs to be modified. We can't rely on charity every time the reward is reduced...and its going to happen 3 more times before we get to the standard 25 blocks for a while. I invested my time and money keeping the network alive and bringing attention to the situation and now that things are slowly working out (this time) I'm being labeled an alarmist.

People are simply mining the most profitable currency of the moment and dumping it...so when a currency hits a brick wall they don't even notice/care. This has to change or the entire alt-coin market will not last. Currency hopping and the spikes and dips that come with it destoys the consistency and design of the individual currencies and the problem is only growing worse. At the very least, retarget formulas need to be tweaked to reduce the impact.

How can anybody disagree with simple facts?