Topic: (ANN) Netcoin has gone POS! With PIR & OWI - page 61. (Read 142167 times)

Getting close now, were at block 418650.

Price made a jump up again. Might be the last of the cheap coins.

No problem, just glad I could help out a little. I think the reddit page is a good idea. I'm not a reddit user but a lot of people use it now. I'm not sure what you guys could do next or make better, as you guys are doing an excellent job as is. The new wallet is a beaut. Don't get discouraged, I think you guys are doing fine. Stay focused and do your thing.

Thanks for all your hard work, it shows.

Hey irond! Glad you're pleased with the way we're going so far! We have had a tough time getting here but we're stronger for it now!

Thank you so much for your contributions, it really will grease the wheels of the Netcoin Train! And that benefits all us Netheads!

Are there any suggestions you have for us? Is there anything you don't like that you think we could improve on? Any other projects you would like to see add to the development site perhaps? We had one suggestion on the forum today to add reddit, so we have done that.

http://development.netcoinfoundation.org/

Can be viewed here...

Anyway please do chip in with suggestions and comments about the areas in which we could improve! We want Netcoin to be the best of the best! We can make that happen, with your help, with everyones help.

Thanks again for your support, much appreciated.

Netcoin Developer

Meee

Wow guys! Keep up the good work. I knew NET wasn't dead. People tend to rip at coins they want it seems, I dunno I don't get it some times.
Anyway, I would like to see that android wallet some time so I tossed 10K at it and I got another 10K for the wallet developments.

 I been following NET for a while now and was a little worried, but I understand these things take time. I'm just glad there is development going on for this great coin. Not a lot happening with the older coins anymore it seems. And I like to stick with the coins I know. And all I have seen is good from this coins community.

So I'm in.

Lets stake us some Netcoins!

Hello Coinerer

I am Meee, a developer at the Netcoin Foundation. I also go by the name “Admin” on our forum.

I see that who has given you a very comprehensive answer but there is one remaining. So allow me to clear that one up for you now too.

How much NET does Netcoin Foundation hold?

We pride ourselves in being very open when it comes to our finances as an organisation, so to make this very easy, we developed a website that allows you to keep track of such matters.

http://development.netcoinfoundation.org/

When projects get funded, the pots will be divided amongst the members or contractors that have worked on the particular tasks, this will be documented and archived for your viewing at any time. It will be a great tool for people to keep track of how we're doing and to encourage further development. As Who pointed out, you can't force volunteers to do anything. But we can encourage more people to get involved if there is a bounty available.

No Premine.

I would also like to point out that Netcoin is one of the few coins that had no pre-mine and I know that is what attracted a lot of people to the coin in the first place. So on a personal level, any coins the individual members of the foundation has, have been mined or bought just like everyone else.

I personally started out mining Netcoin very early on, and stuck with it ever since, at the beginning I had 21 million Netcoins, I paid 3 million for our logo and I cashed out a further 3-4 million and paid for our casino. It cost £6500 at the time, this is money out of my own pocket, mined with everyone else.

I also set up posting rewards on the forum, and provided sign up bonuses for a long time, all with my own personal coins. There was even a bank that paid 1% interest per day! Again paid by myself out of my pocket. I also gave a forum member “snawdog” a million coins to hand out as he saw fit, and he did that all over the wider crypto community.

I even (ashamedly) paid someone to put in the KGW and for other bounties such as a lottery and paper wallet etc.

I have paid for all server costs, this is an ongoing charge that I still pay to this day, you guessed it, out of my own pocket.

I also gave $1000 worth of Netcoins to “songs of love” a charity that makes personal songs for terminally ill children. You can learn more about them at their website and donate in Netcoins.

http://www.songsoflove.org/netcoin/

I have been here, working on Netcoin from nearly the word go, it's been a great experience and I am very happy and proud to say that I am part of the Netcoin Foundation.

I hope this satisfies all your questions, thank you very much for raising them.

Hi coinerer.

I'm one of the developers at Netcoin foundation, my user name was originally 'Shrodingers Cat' on the netcoin forum but more recently 'who'.

What is APR, PIR

APR:
The APR is an 'Annual' or yearly target interest rate.  When a Proof of Stake block is awarded, the annual interest rate is converted to a daily rate, and applied based on the age of the staked coins in days.

We also have implemented POSV, which means users who stake regularly to secure the network earn the quoted APR, but users who keep their wallet closed for months at a time and do not help to secure the network with POS staking will earn less than the quoted APR.

PIR: Personal Investment Rate
A big decision on the POS implementation is what interest rate to choose for staking rewards.  We need to bear in mind that alt coins are now a very competitive area.  We discussed for many weeks, what interest rate to choose while we developed the wallet. Once you release it, you can't easily change it.  We then had the idea that a rate that increased for larger holders of the currency would surely encourage people to want more Netcoins.  The more you get, the better the rewards.  If its a sliding scale its always better to obtain more NET.

We called this idea 'Personal Investment Rate' or PIR.  The number of NET you stake determines the Annual interest rate that is applied to the transaction for that reward.  We at Netcoin invented this idea as far as we know, but there are a lot of coins out there, so I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong.  This annual rate is then converted to a daily rate and applied to the coins based on their age.

> What is the reason for interest rates for such NET amounts owners?

Interest rate is really a measure of risk and reward. (In finance an Interest Rate is often called a 'Risk Rate').   The large holders are exposed to a _lot_ of risk because the price of crypto currency rises and falls dramatically. Much more than normal fiat currency. This is one of the reasons they get a higher reward, to reflect the higher risk they are taking.  The second reason your interest rate rises a little bit with every extra Netcoin you obtain is to creates a desire to obtain NET. This is a good thing for keeping the market active and encouraging users to 'stick' with Netcoin once they try it.

I do understand your concern about the rewards being 'dumped'. That was actually my one biggest worry if we set the interest rates too high. We did not want to create a ridiculous uncontrollable increase, so we have designed into the protocol from the start that the interest rates will change after 1 year and 2 years to close the gap between high and low holders.  This reflects that fact that by that time, the risks will be lower. Whether NET succeeds or fails will be pretty certain by then and it wil hopefully have settled into a fairly stable price with huge adoption, and lots of backing services.  In the first year, we simply want to encourage lots of people to try Netcoin, to like it, and to want more while we get on and release services like shops and auctions and other things, to create a real secondary economy around Netcoin.

Here are the Annual interest rates (APR) for Years 1 to 3, Year 2 will start at approximately August 2015 and Year 3 at approximately August 2016 depending on the speed of the blocks, which should average 1 per minute.

Netcoin Annual Rates.  It is a sliding scale between the values displayed below

NET	Y1	Y2	Y3
0	10	20	20
1000	15	25	22
10000	20	30	24
100000	30	35	26
1000000	80	40	28
10000000	100	45	30

Why all of the new decisions?
Netcoin needed to do something special to make sure it is not a simple copy of the hundreds of other POS and POW cloned coins out there.  We wanted to give the community a truly unique coin.

The reason to change to POS was discussed for several months on the Netcoin Foundation forums.  Opinion was mixed, but many members welcomed the opportunity to switch to POS because the mining rewards and price had crashed, and nothing 'new' was happening:

http://forum.netcoinfoundation.org/thread/608/general-brain-storming?page=7

coinshaer on the 27th May 2014:
>>Many coins have POS so it´s nothing new, and not one of them get an advatage in the value out of that. I think we need something really new.

BUT the fact remains that POW is not profitable anymore either.  ASICS are making Scrypt POW mining actually unprofitable - look at  http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency  Nearly ALL coins now mine at a LOSS.

So I think I speak for all members of the Netcoin Foundation Forum when I say that something new had to happen with Netcoin.

But the big problem with implementing TRULY NEW ideas like these is you _cannot discuss them_ in an open internet forum. Somebody will copy them quickly and release a new coin with all your ideas before you have chance to implement and test them on an existing coin. However we spoke to several people in private, including exchange owners, very large cryptocurrency investors and current users of Netcoin to see what they thought of the various ideas and they all were excited by the plans.

If you look at the cryptsy chart for the last two days, you will find a strong correlation between the timing of those buying spikes and the Netcoin changes announced on this board.

People are coming back to the forum, leaving comments like this:

http://forum.netcoinfoundation.org/thread/721/posv-rewards-blockchain-guardians-netcoin#ixzz3BB9VNVtL

This is turning out to be even better than I thought!
My original understanding of this upgrade was simply POS introduction.  
Then I discovered the invention/inclusion of PIR.
And now POSV!  Absolutely amazing!!
You guys are doing a fantastic job here, creating a really outstanding coin.


> I think biggest exchanges are probably the biggest owners of NET. Will they get 100% of annual interest rates? Will they dump new NETs to their clients buy orders?

We did speak to some exchanges, and as far as we can tell, exchanges do NOT generally enable stake mining.  The reason is that it moves money around in the wallets (spends coins, generates coins and creates more transactions), and creates a big accounting problem for them.

 Will you cancel your decisions? Why wouldn't you cancel all of this big mistakes?

The only thing that would cause us to change would be an unforeseen problem.  We have done lots of testing on TestNet and are pleased with the results.  I do respect your opinion, but many people are very excited by what we have done here.  I would like to know more about why you think they are mistakes.  I welcome your discussion and encourage people to challenge our ideas.  It helps us grow stronger and work towards a better currency.

>Who from  Netcoin Foundation did suggest and make such decisions?
Yes  

Well I (who!) suggested some of them.  Many other members in the community agreed with them, so I did my best to implement them. For free. Lots of people have invested in NET, in time, hardware and money.  I also bought about half a million NET with fiat cash a couple of months ago when the price was 00000150. (It was about the price of decent graphics card.) That's how much _I believe in what we are doing_. I thought it only fair I should have something to lose (or gain) depending on the quality of my coding and outcome of the decisions we made during the development.  We challenged and discussed at great length everything that the team suggested. Nobody wants to lose out. I owe it to them and myself to give them the best I can and try to help the foundation make the best decisions for the currency. That's why a took a real financial risk,  to focus my mind and put my money where my mouth is.

>Foundation did nothing this year. Why did you do this?
Precisely for that reason  'Its About Time!' was a common comment following the announcements.
As for them doing nothing, you have to bear in mind that you can't force unpaid volunteers to do anything.  Lots of things have been going on behind the scenes, servers need to be paid for, software needs upgrading. websites need updating. Marketing, translations etc.  We need people to help out.

How much NET does Netcoin Foundation hold?
'Admin' on the forum would be happy to answer that question. though I can see there is just over 100,000 NET in the development pot for an android wallet.  I believe a lot of the initial mining rewards paid for the casino software and bounties for setting up and configuring the various servers.  This is why the netcoinfoundation has such as great forum with lots of unique features.

I want explanations of the terms (cause I don't want to read much text):

- APR
- PIR

I want some examples of:

what is annual interest rates for owners of amount of NETs:

Amount of Net
 0                   
 1,000             
 10,000           
 100,000           
 1,000,000       
 10,000,000+     

What is the reason for interest rates for such NET amounts owners?

I think biggest exchanges are probably the biggest owners of NET. Will they get 100% of annual interest rates? Will they dump new NETs to their clients buy orders?

Why all of the new decisions?

Will you cancel your decisions? Why wouldn't you cancel all of this big mistakes?

Who from  Netcoin Foundation did suggest and make such decisions? Which persons?

Foundation did nothing this year. Why did you do this?

How much NET does Netcoin Foundation hold?

Yes believe us, we have... We even let good old James Clayton know and he decided to go and buy some and tweet about it himself. James Clayton is part of a crypto group and is a big Netcoin fan...

The official facebook and twitter were actually ran by a friend of our though and his dad died some months back so we'll have to make new accounts at some point. It is on the to-do list like so many other things XD

I've also been in touch with a few crypto news outlets etc... But I see it as all our jobs to spread the word and I know you're playing your role there lordpiccolo so thank you for that...

I actually posted a new wallet snap on the forum but a little while ago, something else I have been working on

Oh you thought the wallet was done? XD We'll be improving everything as we go...

make you you blast twitter and facebook too dood, you don't want people moaning. at least if you spread the word through various channels you can say the info was there

Hmmm well the thread has been read 779 times... Only really so much you can put in a title, But I will add the PIR.

change the title of this thread. no mention of variable PoS % Mining.

One of the features that might actually attract new investors. Just telling people you are forking isn't enough. Netcoin is an old blockchain and unless people are made aware, this will just fly under the radar. Not fair to those who are invested in netcoin already.

Yeah thank you lordpiccolo, great work mate, keep spreading the message.

Oh and also the 2 links in the OP would be great to share with people too

Thanks for all your help and support. 

Really good work, I have been letting the cryptsy users know about the updates, ill carry on again tomorrow

I hope you have all updated to the new wallet guys, we still have plenty of time left though, and just to let you know I have updated the wallet with the windows netcoind and I have built both with the latest ssl 1.0.1i, so you may like to update again, it's not mandatory though. But I would advise it for your own peace of mind...

Also I have added a couple of links to the bottom of the OP that lead to some articles written by who, Netcoins lead developer. I think they are very well written and a fun read! So please do have at it and join the discussion, thanks so much.

Guys, I have a request... Is there anyone out there that knows how to block a time warp attack as a temporary measure until we switch? Maybe I should make a thread to ask this question so that it might be seen better?

EDIT: Anyway as an update bter have updated, coinpayments tell me they are on it, and I have done the pool and explorer... Still waiting on word from cryptsy.

EDIT: Found the rich list btw https://coinplorer.com/NET/Addresses/0/Top

Sure it is, to be honest I was going to go all out POS, we kept the POW purely as some like to do it. But personally I would have killed it off sooner.

Oh but actually it is a toss up, as these are yearly percentages... So if you have a 100k netcoins it will take you a year to get 15%

I think I could do better than that mining

POS is better than POW 

hah yeah it did take some time, this stuff isn't easy believe me, but I am getting there now and only moving on up from here, we're built some great foundations. I am excited to get one and build even more!

about bloomin time

very nice work guys