Topic: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency - page 7. (Read 181202 times)

I think those figures would work well, but the same conditions should apply to each case (coin) regardless of their current circumstances ie. if the coin is totally dead or still trading in some obscure exchange. People who are interested will convert and those that dont wont complain as burning a percentage of their coin will only increase the value of whats left. The end result though is larger ORA user base with new people on board which will benefit the project as a whole.

 Some projects will in fact use only a fraction of the 9,000,000 as people have long forgotten about the coin after assuming the project was dead or they simply havnt heard of the ORA swap. These funds could then be used to expand the idea.

The fact that ORA hasnt launched yet and the value of the asset on the exchange is so low makes this idea possible as it wont effect the existing stakholders of ORA negatively in the long run.

some numbers:

Total supply ORA coin = 1,000,000,000.

 i.) Stakeholders - allocated 50%, 38,82% completion. (suggested not to touch now)
 ii.) Node bounty + cloning dev bounty - 9% (90,000,000)
 iii.) Project Bounty - 25% - (suggested not to touch now)

Rest is allocated to specific roles and distributed.


Total supply of coin on MS - 1,000,000,000.
The bounty for 9% or 90,000,000 is suggested to be used for the"Merger/Swap Project"

Issue: How to allocate percentage to individual coin / project? Number of project will involve is N/A at the moment. Like Este Nuno says, it is a bit tricky.

Allocation : Total allocated ORA coins/total supply of adopted project's coins.

This sounds like a very long term project:
Suggestion 1: Let's say we estimate 100 projects will be "adopted", so each coin will get an allocation of 900,000 each. or we estimate 50 to be realistic, then we have 1,800,000 of coins allocated for each project.

These sounds like a shorter term project:
Suggestion 2: Estimate 10 projects, so each project is allocated 9,000,000.

Suggestion 3: Estimate 5 projects, so each project is allocated 18,000,000.

Suggestion 4: Increase coin supply as we add on projects. Not sure if this is doable on MS and i do not think this is wise.

Burning outside the AE, a standard burn address, and process to monitor it / automate it, like dogecoin to dogeparty.

As for projects which have their own wallet, we could say crypto coins fall in to 4 rough categories.

1) Crypto tech driven coins, things where the client features or specs drive the innovation.  SuperNET already folds these in to aid their longevity.
2) Extending project driven coins, things where the client is a simple fork, and the extending projects + community drive the innovation.  This would be the target for ORA the way I see it.
3) Projects which have both 1&2, these run on their own timeline and of which there are few.  BTC being an example, VIA another.
4) Scams / abandoned / those which should arguably never existed.  No concern.


Myself and EsteNuno discussed this quickly yesterday.

EsteNuno: setting the rate of exchange might be tricky

Me:
Agreed, my gut reaction on that is to ignore market price-tag all together.  Let's say you have:
1) coin with 36 million mined at end of burn date
2) coin with 1 million fully mined PoS.

Asset: 1,000,000 divisible to 8 decimal places
500k apportioned to each of the two coins
each (1) is worth 500000/36000000 = 0.01388889
each (2) is worth 500000/1000000 = 0.5

Not all of the asset will be swapped, anything that isn't is just ignored.  In this way both currencies have a fair portion of the asset, and are considered as having equal merit.

Theoretically if say 60% of (1) and 50% of (2) is burned and swapped, then the asset should represent 55% of the x-month average cap of both currencies combined.

But that figure is a price-tag, doesn't need known.  The asset would be swapped for a portion of the MS currency, and it's supply would be inflated, and the market would adjust based on release of new coins, and new value brought to the overall starfish project. Since it's burned, no price-tag needs to be known.

"what portion of MS currency" I guess would need to be decided ahead of time, by consensus of the starfish community

EsteNuno:
it's kind of like a supernet
same sort of concept about joining forces
but there are probably a lot of projects out there too that are never going to admit that it's not working out and see doing something like this as admitting failure(even though it's not that at all, and it's potentially much better)

Me:
+10 it's self cleaning in that manner, only those who really do want to join and create the services/projects and move crypto forward will join, the others won't.


That's as far as I've personally taken discussions, will be watching, and of course best of luck in whatever you decide.

Yes, Darkhorse is correct, sorry if my post above was misleading! Darkhorse is much better at the 'numbers' than me, that's why he's the community treasurer, and I'm not 

Thank you Mark for this amazingly interesting suggestion!! I agree with Darkhorse that it most definitely is worth exploring, but my first impression is the general direction is very appealing. I think the general consensus of most crypto followers is that 2014 showed what happens when the number of competing projects increases at the same time the total marketcap of the entire crypto ecosystem decreases -  quality projects with innovative tech ideas & committed people can go to the wall and fail. We all know there are loads of cynical copy-cat clone coins around, and they will probably fail even in a bull market, but during this bear market a number of really promising coins I've been following *might* fail too, and that's a real shame IMO.

Mark's suggestion to incorporate some of these projects into ORA via burning old coins for new ORA MS ones would help to 'coinsolidate' not only the good tech, but the good people too. In the end it'll be the critical mass of supportive & active people behind crypto projects that make some succeed where others fail, and Mark's plan would create more ORA'farians, so I want to explore further and see where we can take this. I do agree with Darkhorse that we need to consider the existing ORA stakeholders, but I think most ORA stakeholders are thinking long-term, and ORA is still so cheap that the net effect on demand of having more stakeholders involved in a project with good prospects is likely to be positive on price, not negative.

What do people think, share your thoughts!!

ora = well/healthy ... 
kia ora = a greeting noting that the person you see before you is well and it is good to see them,
kai ora = very well
whaka ora = make well
kei te ora ahua = a comment suggesting that the person making it is in a state of wellbeing "i am well/healthy"

i like the ora coin, simple because of the deeper meaning of the word in Te Reo ... the language of Aotearoa




also: kora: 1. (noun) small fragment, speck, spark, sequin.
    Ka tahuri ki te hika ahi a Tama-āhua; he rere anake te kora o te ahi, ka wera a Arahura, koia i pau ai a ‘Kahotea’ i te ahi, ka kōpatapata haere te āhua o tēnā pounamu i te ngārehu ahi (JPS 1914:. / When Tama-āhua proceeded to light a fire by rubbing the sticks, the sparks flew out and set fire to Arahura, and hence was Kahotea [name of a variety of greenstone] burnt, for that kind of greenstone is spotted like drops on account of the embers of the fire.

Hi Mark,

Thank you for the supporting post. What you said is very true.


RSU will be the first experimental project for ORA to start merging other projects. We will see how this move will affect us, although in the long run i believe we are going to add more user base to the project. With more and more projects getting added, like you said, ORA becoming an umbrella we may bring in "ideas" from all sorts of coins with their people. Treat ORA as a multinational company with each coin is a company of its own. A specific community can use ORA for their own specific purpose while giving that same facility to the other users of ORA.

Now that we have finally decided to use NXT as a platform, we now can start moving things. Of course the first part of the plan is to use NXT as a client and then we may develop an independant wallet that does not require to download nxt client. Something like Nxtty, whereby we will have a more mobile point of transfer from user to user. That may be the part 2 of the plan in the long run. we will be also bring in someone who has knowledge in these areas to advice what we can do and what we can't do with the current state of nxt client.

coming back to your post, the idea of creating assets for other projects, burning and giving them the ORA is a good plan, however we need to study how to do that with their software as well. RS was easy due to the assets were only distributed via AE, therefore we could control it.  How about other projects that maybe already have their own wallet? How are going to ensure the burning process outside AE? So that does need some solid plan which we will definitely look at. Second concern would be, the now allocated 9% from the node + clone bounty which we can use for these projects. Swap 1-1 sounds logic at the moment due to the price of ORA is rather cheap. But i do not know how many projects that can be supported with this allocation. Therefore maybe we do need to be selective in choosing which gets in the allocation. No idea, but we need to study that scenario as well. Like you said, needs a little math work there, but increasing the coin supply for this may not be in favor with the existing stakeholders. I am not sure. But we do not do things hassly without studying the whole surrounding situations. We do need to play the responsible role of the developers of faithful Ora community.

But yeah, Mark, we will always welcome you to the ORA team, the more the merrier. Who knows, we might become a very big,big starfish community soon with its legs over all the crypto projects. The more i look at the direction the ORA can take, the bigger i see the opportunity of developements. ORA as a Multinational company but decentralised and starfish in every nature.

Perhaps you already have your killer feature, the combination of a starfish community, thought leading, willingness to cooperate, and willingness to use technologies which others have created.

You do not have a developer, I suggest that you do not need one.

There are hundreds of active projects currently competing in similar spaces.  The coin associated with each is what fragments the wider communities and force projects to die, and rare developers to duplicate efforts, some need to die gracefully so projects can consolidate.

I feel it is a fair analysis, to say that commonly the projects and services built on top of coins are what now separate them from the pack.  Personally I can see multiple projects that would benefit massively by being merged.  Again, the underlying (often neglected) crypto coins are what prohibit this.

The alt coin community has a need:  Allow projects to merge together, with respective currencies gracefully made legacy.

The post above this is discussing this already, swapping RSU to ORA.

With this in mind here is a back of the envelope proposal for your discussion:

Create a new MS currency, do not distribute it.

Create an Asset for each project merge.
Provide a burn address for each coin in the merge.
Issue the asset against coins burned to each burner.
Once the burn period is over, swap the asset for a portion of the created MS currency.

In this way, coins can be made legacy, and ORA can become not a currency, but an umbrella project with a starfish community, where each arm is a project which has merged in existing projects.

This approach allows all those who want to move and merge to do so, whilst allowing those who don't to keep the coin they have and try to continue it without the broader community.  It's opt in, optional.

New projects could also be created in the same way, where an asset is created, released in the usual way to investors, and then the asset swapped for a portion of the MS currency.

Existing assets which represent projects, for example omnigames, could also be swapped for a portion of the MS currency.  Assets representing investment portfolio's are likely out of scope?

From a financial aspect, every new project joining would inflate the supply, but bring an increase in value which should offset or exceed the inflation caused by the new portion currency issued.

From an emission perspective, it's close to perfect, new currency is only issued when there is a demand for it, when new projects are added.

The hard work required is doing the maths to ensure everything is fair around the new MS being issued. It is possible, and I would be happy to help if needed.

Perhaps this will be contentious, but if you did this, I would propose that ORA (and indirectly RSU) become the first project, and receive the first portion of the new MS currency.  Community organization, outreach, oversight, admin - all of that is a big enough project by itself to warrant being one arm, or perhaps the body, of this starfish.

Finally, this is an observation framed as a proposal, I see you doing this already in some capactity, and you have effectively already proposed this to others, including myself, for other projects.

Edit: the obvious part, each of the projects would utilize the MS currency within it, increasing the odds of one or more of them becoming "killer" within it's domain.

Warmest Regards,

Mark

For RS its as what i have said, in future we might use the 9% for other projects.

Thanks for reply... I asked this coz the announcement said "swapping personal ORA stakes" at the beginning but then said "sending from the ORA Treasury account ". This was why it confused me.

So now Darkhorse reaffirms that the rescue fund comes from personal stakes (250K each x4) or as you implies, the rescue fund actually comes from public money (i.e.: those 9% unallocated ORA from the original distribution)? 

Thanks smaragda, all good suggestions there! CfB and jl777 are obviously two key guys in the NXT ecosystem with a lot of knowledge and skill, and picking their brains on ideas that might help ORA would be fantastic, but honestly, I think we need to develop some momentum on our own now. Sure, there will be communication asking for advice, and there has been already with both CfB & jl777 previously, but we need to get ourselves together and make ORA an 'attractive' proposition for guys of that calibre to get involved. I'm confident we can do that, and your suggestions are very welcome!

When I communicated with jl777 previously his advice was pretty much what I relayed in this thread, and it is basically the same advice I've had from coinsolidation from Bitmark, who I've had the benefit of communicating with also - "what will people use ORA for, what does it offer that makes it useful, what is its 'killer feature' that can make it survive in a crowded market?". I think there are many possible paths to follow and explore here, and I'm smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to think of many of the best ideas, that's why I always try and encourage people to get involved, and why when I try and think of something on my own I need to get philosophical and meditate; to squeeze every last drop of 'horse power' out of my mental engine

We know ORA will be an MS currency now, and if we can assemble a list of ideas (even idea fragments), then maybe the 'killer feature' will jump out  at us. Some ideas I've got include things like:
- in game currency for online games
- community 'token' on a community website
- add 'escrow' features to ORA to allow reversible transactions (essential for online commerce IMO)


In a more general sense I'm trying to follow this thought pattern:
1- think of 'activities' and 'things'  that the world needs more of
2- find ones that aren't properly monetised in the current financial framework of global fiat, credit cards, paypal etc
3- think of ways/systems that ORA, running on mobile devices via our custom ORA app as an MS currency can monetise the thing in 1- above, so the world/ people produce/have more of it

When I 'meditate' on ORA that's what I've been doing lately, and IMO the 'killer feature' jl777 and coinsolidation referred too *might* be discovered by anyone. The other day for example, I was imagining the 'thing' the world needed more of *could* be more people eating organic veggies grown in urban backyards that currently sit idle as an agricultural food producing resource, so I tried to imagine if ORA becoming the 'go to' crypto for monetising urban gardens and home grown veggies market was possible. It met my condition for something that the world needs more of, but isn't currently been done at the 'maximum' level or amount because fiat probably doesn't handle monetising small scale backyard veggy gardens that well.

Let me stress that I DON'T think this idea is THE 'killer feature' for ORA, but the process of thinking about the task of 'killer feature' hunting is on the right track (hopefully). It doesn't hurt, and it can be fun It's basic 'community currency' stuff that old hippies like me have been thinking about for years (match unmet needs with unused resources via a 'token' or community currency), but really hasn't been possible on a large scale logistically, up until the invention of crypto currencies & blockchains.

Remember that we had a lot of left over stakes from the first webapp registration process (over 2K @ ~166K ORA each) so we still have quite a long way to go with the ORA distribution. Also, we had 8% on the original distribution plan going towards 'node bounties', and 1% for the Qora dev which is obviously not needed now, so there's 9% unallocated from the original distribution of ORA that needs to go somewhere, and this is a good use for some of it IMO.

My opinion is we'll potentially create a lot more small ORA stakeholders with this RSU giveaway process, and many RSU people might not have heard of ORA before, and when they do some research they might like what they see, and they might choose to buy some more while ORA is going cheap, or better still, they might decide to get involved and 'earn' a larger sized power bounty. I think overall there might a small increase in demand in the short term, but I'm more focused on the longer term, and this giveaway ticks all the boxes as far as I'm concerned.

This is a great idea, and I commend Darkhorse for thinking of it, and doing the leg work to make it happen!!

he was thinking that the fund they were ORA that they have not been distributed, this way it has more merit that you are you that you have delivered part of yours ORA. Thank you again

I hope that MS should bring good results to ORA

^ the rescue fund for RS is coming from our personal stakes, 250,000 each from me, kora, frag and mac red.

How will this affect ORA's price, well, i personally do not think it will affect a lot, since the price of ORA is kind of have stabilized. But i am assuming once ORA is launched on MS, the price of ORA will go up. There are at least 150,000,000 Ora in circulation right now, and to think 1,000,000 will affect the price that much, i really am not sure.

Where the rescue fund actually comes from and how this rescue plan would affect ORA price?

Thank you for the initiative. Good luck

Another mini project by ORA.


Summary: The RSU project was started by the developer Reserve Share and has gone missing before releasing a working wallet. A number of the existing shareholders tried to revive the project with a new developer, but it seems it did not work out well as well. Therefore, this project will be abandoned. The founding members of ORA, (Kora, Mac Red, Darkhorse & Fragora) agrees to help the RSU community by swapping their personal ORA stakes with whoever holding the RS Assets in their NXT wallet.

Why: This maybe the start of a community service that will be organised by ORA in future to help stakeholders of scammed/abandoned projects in the Crypto community by giving them a hand. In other words, the ORA family will be going to grow bigger and bigger.

Details of the swap:

Step 1: To swap your RSU to ORA, you will need to send all your RSU assets to the below specified NXT account, opened specifically for this purpose.

NXT Account : NXT-RV3U-FQZJ-YZKT-4U3VZ

Note: I am giving a 3 months swapping period for this process. The last day to swap will be 5th March 2015.

Step 2: I will be sending the equivalent number of your sent RSU assets in ORA from the ORA Treasury account using the NXT account you used to send your RSU. No need any messages. This will be done manually. I will do the transactions (sending ORA to your account) at least once weekly or more if i can.

Step 3: I will burn all the received RSU by sending it to the NXT genesis account in one go after the swap period has ended.

That's all. This RSU project is over.

Disclaimer: The ORA team has nothing to do with RSU project. Our actions to kickstart the project did not do well. To close this project, we are swapping the RSU assets to ORA in good will only.

Thank you all for your understanding. You can send in your RSU assets right away to NXT-RV3U-FQZJ-YZKT-4U3VZ

Darkhorse

+1 You are right.

really a pity, and which project will be the first clone?
ORA still has chance.

^ This is also an open invitation that whoever wants to be in the ORA team to stand up and join us. The basic function of "Send" and "Receive" will exist in every coin, including ORA. But why ORA?

What we are expecting in the coming days, ORA will be released on NXT. The MS system will be tested in v1.4.0e as per Jean Luc's info. Once MS go live, the coins will be exchanged with the assets you guys hold. It is most likely me who is going to do the exchanges. Once you have the coins, you can "spend" the coins almost immediately, however you do need some nxt to use the coins. Once that has been done (coin issuance), we will be brainstorming on development of functions for MS, especially ORA. This is where we will be needing all you experts out there to help ORA grow.

Now, this is what you need to know, ORA is no longer just a plan, but it is DEFINITELY going to go LIVE on MS. ORA is serious!