Topic: [ANN] Pink: Escort startup Series A share sale - page 10. (Read 3873 times)
Still got confused on what really this project all about, could you explain it in a simple yet understandable words, since i read this as a sex selling coin, that is sad ;(
How are the advisors getting compensated? Hopefully through tokens in order to align their interests with yours.
Are you the guy that I heard in a podcast about Pink App, like two days ago?
Expecting girls to deal with tokens? How easy will that UI be to use? That's essential for this project.
Their security design with multiple Tor layers is novel. And no hard drives does make it hard for LE to seize even if they found it.
Hi there, thanks for your great questions.
We've been working on it for several months. Key members quit their day jobs around June. By IPO we mean we're offering our shares to the public. As an extrajurisdictional company, we can't register with the SEC or another local regulatory body, but that doesn't detract from being an IPO. The IPO itself we'll run off our own platform, like we are doing the Series A. We may also offer it via an Ethereum smart contract. However, we believe privacy should play an important role and a transparent blockchain doesn't fit that. So offering on a smart contract would either be limited in scope, or require a contract that works with payment via Monero or Zcash. Smart contracts are very immature at this time, so while long-term we are very excited for the possibility of corporate governance via smart contract, it will be some time until things are mature enough to rely on it.
First off, privacy on blockchains is incredibly new. Bitcoin has none. Monero has some, but the boundaries and limitations are not understood. For instance, ask them if you're the WannaCry author, exactly how you'd have to use Bitcoin->Monero->Bitcoin to leave no trail, or no trail beyond any other exchange user. This is not defined. ZCash is theoretically better, but zk-snarks are new, and as of today, so slow that very few people use them. As far as user anonymity, that is not a goal, only user privacy.
The fact of the matter is that a successful sex work platform must provide some sort of identify verification and screening. Sex workers require this of clients. It's a hassle, and clients have to do it for every worker, and often make a fuss about it. If verification and screening is not part of a platform, that means it is lacking a core feature and can't be much better than Craiglist. Try it for yourself: go to Eros.com, search for people in your city, and see what they require of their clients before meeting them. Simple scenario: New user signs up on decentralized-site. They make a date, meet the worker, rob her. Next day, they sign up again, new ID.
If you're still not convinced, book a date. Either use Eros.com, or go on Twitter and search "$yourcity escort". In a popular city, this will probably cost you $300-$500, perhaps less if you convince them you just want to chat. Then explain a decentralized system and how they'll have to accept tokens, exchange them for Bitcoins, then exchange for fiat. And how there's no ID management, and bad dates can keep signing up as new clients, so they have to keep their current screening setup. Toss in the name of the most popular ICO in this arena for an extra reaction. In fact, if you want to do this and publish notes on here for others to read, we'll pay for half the date - email me ([email protected]) and we'll arrange it.
Our service is unlike Adultwork or Tinder. Adultwork for escorts is essentially a glorified, 90s-styled, email relay. To book you type in a few fields, then the escort contacts you and you're back to square one on verification and screening. Tinder isn't paid, for the most part. We're an anonymously operating escort agency - it's best to think of us as an escort agency. The profile-swiping UI we have is just a vastly improved way to discover potential escorts in your area.
SSIO is, from what I can tell, basically decentralized Backpage with potential reputation management/transaction history tacked on, while forcing SSIO-token-escrow. Note I don't imply or assume malice on SSIO's part. Unlike the scammy ones or really terrible ones (Frantic) I think SSIO of them is just ... overly optimistic to be polite. They seem like talented and sincere developers, just working on something that doesn't solve problems. Insisting cash is so bad is funny. Even if we're to believe cash is bad (hint: clients don't rape workers due to cash), they could have used a popular currency like BTC, ETH or even XMR/ZEC. Instead they invent a new token they are conveniently selling...
Nocta is similar. Except they toss in IPFS, which already has copyright blacklists (https://github.com/ipfs/refs-denylists-dmca). Their "whitepaper" (I hate this term for non-technical products) is hardly coherent. "Due to specifics, neither offerers nor
customers can fully enjoy benefits of the Internet and social networks." Due to specifics? What specifics? And escorts are incredibly active on Twitter. "cash for some reasons is not always convenient." This war on cash here is, once again, only to sell their token. You know more expensive escorts do when they require a deposit? They take credit cards. Now and then maybe Bitcoin.
Nocta's whole premise that there's no place to find info is wrong. There are plenty of review boards, as well as sites like Slixa or Eros. The issue with review boards is that they have a toxic culture and are somewhat a weapon against escorts. Other sites like Eros present you with real providers, but you start from square one each time. No coordination, no centralized screening. It's still a pain.
Nocta dismisses the reputation issue. Sure, once a client is established, it's all gravy. They ignore that abusive clients can simply re-register, and a decentralized anonymous system by design can't do anything at all. It's Backpage++.
These blockchain projects all miss something huge: It's not about the tech. Literally no provider is sitting around thinking they really need a blockchain-based cryptocurrency-escow system. These projects dismiss real complaints, invent new ones (cash is bad wtf?), confuse privacy and anonymity, and basically claim blockchain's gonna make everything just fine.
Again, make a date, we'll help pay for it, and talk about the actual issues. Or chat with our VP of Product, Sarah (Twitter: @SarahPinkApp), who is an active escort. This is an open offer to anyone reading. We'll help pay for your date with a real escort to discuss these ideas and you can hear first-hand how useless of an idea these other platforms are.
As far as our security, and how we can operate immune to subpoenas: https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-anonymity-and-other-techniques-815ee21c6da4 - Pink is an extrajurisdictional company with heavy opsec around the core team. Think Silk Road, if they had real opsec. Note that just because the core team is anonymous, does not mean we can't interface just fine with the real world. It's been fairly easy to get people to do things for us where we can't just send Bitcoin to get it done directly.
I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to drop by our Slack and chat (link in profile and on site). I am certain that anyone that actually compares these projects will see our merit. If not, see our offer to pay for your own research with a real escort.
P.S. Here's a bonus analysis. Frantic was dismissed by SSIO because it's centralized. But actually go through Frantic's site. It's so vile from head to toe. Exhibit A: They say they're going to populate fake profiles in order to assure sex workers the platform is active and safe. In so many words, they intend to deliberately lie to providers and falsely tell them people are safety transacting. Exhibit B: They think gamifying the platform with eXperience Points is a good idea. Here's one way to rack up XP: +10 XP, see over 6 clients in one day. This is a real site, that's taken real people's money, and they say these things on their actual site. I point this out to say there are a ton of clueless and naive people in these projects, even if well intentioned. Though anything taking away payment control from providers calls that into doubt.
We've been working on it for several months. Key members quit their day jobs around June. By IPO we mean we're offering our shares to the public. As an extrajurisdictional company, we can't register with the SEC or another local regulatory body, but that doesn't detract from being an IPO. The IPO itself we'll run off our own platform, like we are doing the Series A. We may also offer it via an Ethereum smart contract. However, we believe privacy should play an important role and a transparent blockchain doesn't fit that. So offering on a smart contract would either be limited in scope, or require a contract that works with payment via Monero or Zcash. Smart contracts are very immature at this time, so while long-term we are very excited for the possibility of corporate governance via smart contract, it will be some time until things are mature enough to rely on it.
First off, privacy on blockchains is incredibly new. Bitcoin has none. Monero has some, but the boundaries and limitations are not understood. For instance, ask them if you're the WannaCry author, exactly how you'd have to use Bitcoin->Monero->Bitcoin to leave no trail, or no trail beyond any other exchange user. This is not defined. ZCash is theoretically better, but zk-snarks are new, and as of today, so slow that very few people use them. As far as user anonymity, that is not a goal, only user privacy.
The fact of the matter is that a successful sex work platform must provide some sort of identify verification and screening. Sex workers require this of clients. It's a hassle, and clients have to do it for every worker, and often make a fuss about it. If verification and screening is not part of a platform, that means it is lacking a core feature and can't be much better than Craiglist. Try it for yourself: go to Eros.com, search for people in your city, and see what they require of their clients before meeting them. Simple scenario: New user signs up on decentralized-site. They make a date, meet the worker, rob her. Next day, they sign up again, new ID.
If you're still not convinced, book a date. Either use Eros.com, or go on Twitter and search "$yourcity escort". In a popular city, this will probably cost you $300-$500, perhaps less if you convince them you just want to chat. Then explain a decentralized system and how they'll have to accept tokens, exchange them for Bitcoins, then exchange for fiat. And how there's no ID management, and bad dates can keep signing up as new clients, so they have to keep their current screening setup. Toss in the name of the most popular ICO in this arena for an extra reaction. In fact, if you want to do this and publish notes on here for others to read, we'll pay for half the date - email me ([email protected]) and we'll arrange it.
Our service is unlike Adultwork or Tinder. Adultwork for escorts is essentially a glorified, 90s-styled, email relay. To book you type in a few fields, then the escort contacts you and you're back to square one on verification and screening. Tinder isn't paid, for the most part. We're an anonymously operating escort agency - it's best to think of us as an escort agency. The profile-swiping UI we have is just a vastly improved way to discover potential escorts in your area.
SSIO is, from what I can tell, basically decentralized Backpage with potential reputation management/transaction history tacked on, while forcing SSIO-token-escrow. Note I don't imply or assume malice on SSIO's part. Unlike the scammy ones or really terrible ones (Frantic) I think SSIO of them is just ... overly optimistic to be polite. They seem like talented and sincere developers, just working on something that doesn't solve problems. Insisting cash is so bad is funny. Even if we're to believe cash is bad (hint: clients don't rape workers due to cash), they could have used a popular currency like BTC, ETH or even XMR/ZEC. Instead they invent a new token they are conveniently selling...
Nocta is similar. Except they toss in IPFS, which already has copyright blacklists (https://github.com/ipfs/refs-denylists-dmca). Their "whitepaper" (I hate this term for non-technical products) is hardly coherent. "Due to specifics, neither offerers nor
customers can fully enjoy benefits of the Internet and social networks." Due to specifics? What specifics? And escorts are incredibly active on Twitter. "cash for some reasons is not always convenient." This war on cash here is, once again, only to sell their token. You know more expensive escorts do when they require a deposit? They take credit cards. Now and then maybe Bitcoin.
Nocta's whole premise that there's no place to find info is wrong. There are plenty of review boards, as well as sites like Slixa or Eros. The issue with review boards is that they have a toxic culture and are somewhat a weapon against escorts. Other sites like Eros present you with real providers, but you start from square one each time. No coordination, no centralized screening. It's still a pain.
Nocta dismisses the reputation issue. Sure, once a client is established, it's all gravy. They ignore that abusive clients can simply re-register, and a decentralized anonymous system by design can't do anything at all. It's Backpage++.
These blockchain projects all miss something huge: It's not about the tech. Literally no provider is sitting around thinking they really need a blockchain-based cryptocurrency-escow system. These projects dismiss real complaints, invent new ones (cash is bad wtf?), confuse privacy and anonymity, and basically claim blockchain's gonna make everything just fine.
Again, make a date, we'll help pay for it, and talk about the actual issues. Or chat with our VP of Product, Sarah (Twitter: @SarahPinkApp), who is an active escort. This is an open offer to anyone reading. We'll help pay for your date with a real escort to discuss these ideas and you can hear first-hand how useless of an idea these other platforms are.
As far as our security, and how we can operate immune to subpoenas: https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-anonymity-and-other-techniques-815ee21c6da4 - Pink is an extrajurisdictional company with heavy opsec around the core team. Think Silk Road, if they had real opsec. Note that just because the core team is anonymous, does not mean we can't interface just fine with the real world. It's been fairly easy to get people to do things for us where we can't just send Bitcoin to get it done directly.
I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to drop by our Slack and chat (link in profile and on site). I am certain that anyone that actually compares these projects will see our merit. If not, see our offer to pay for your own research with a real escort.
P.S. Here's a bonus analysis. Frantic was dismissed by SSIO because it's centralized. But actually go through Frantic's site. It's so vile from head to toe. Exhibit A: They say they're going to populate fake profiles in order to assure sex workers the platform is active and safe. In so many words, they intend to deliberately lie to providers and falsely tell them people are safety transacting. Exhibit B: They think gamifying the platform with eXperience Points is a good idea. Here's one way to rack up XP: +10 XP, see over 6 clients in one day. This is a real site, that's taken real people's money, and they say these things on their actual site. I point this out to say there are a ton of clueless and naive people in these projects, even if well intentioned. Though anything taking away payment control from providers calls that into doubt.
Hi,
Interesting project, thanks for the information. I have some questions, if you don't mind?
Length of development: How long have you been working on this project? When did you come up with the idea? Why are you now doing an IPO?
IPO: I like your approach of being honest and saying that you don't think crypto is close to mass adoption, and as such you would not create your own coin but take payment from current major coins - whether of not I agree, I can see your logic. And following from that, you state that you are conducting an IPO, not ICO. So, my question is, where are you planning to list? I guess not America, as issuing tokens in this format would be (to my understanding) against the SEC rules? Also, if you are planning to remain anonymous, how will you register a company?
You then state "At IPO, Series A investors can, at their election, participate in a stock buyback program of up to 20% of their shares (an instant 200% ROI)" - to clarify, that means that if I buy in now at $1/share, I can sell 20% of my holdings at $10/share in December?
You are aiming to sell 10,000,000 shares, is that correct (5m in Series A sale + 5m in IPO)? How many are being held by the development team? What will be the total amount?
Why are you planning an IPO now? I mean there are other established sites that do a similar thing, and I don't recall any of those having fundraisers or going public?
Security/Anonymity/Censorship: You explain that this will not be handled by blockchain (although transactions can be made through anonymous cryptos if the users choose), however you must see that - especially posting on this forum - that an argument could be made that your data would be more secure, users could be more anonymous, and the platform more censorship resistant, if you were to integrate more with blockchain? On your website, it states that "throwing some JavaScript and blockchain technology won't solve real world problems" - I can see your point, but I think it deserves more of a discussion than that. I also note that one of your competitors, Nocta, is stating similar things.
You mention that "being extrajurisdictional and anonymous, Pink minimizes legal risk for everyone involved. Pink is immune to subpoenas". Could you expand on that? How is this possible?
Competition: Is it fair to say you are trying to provide a service that is somewhere between adultwork.com and tinder? But where Pink will also add content/value with algorithms and customer service?
Could you explain the differences, if any, between Pink, Nocta and SSIO? From what little I can tell, I think that Pink are offering more of a matchmaking service than the other 2, which are more like listings site that provide ecosystems for payments. I think it's curious that these 3 have all come up at around the same time, do you have any thoughts on that?
Development: You don't really mention anything about your process, unlike Nocta (who state they have consulted with sexworkers etc) and SSIO who have been putting out a lot of articles and research. What inspired Pink into existence? Who are you working with and discussing with?
Marketing: With a team wanting to remain anonymous, and users who want to remain anonymous, how to you plan to generate any hype around this project? Also, how do you plan to grow users?
I hope you don't mind all the questions. Basically I believe there would be a lot of potential users for a platform like this, but it is hard to choose an investment with 3 projects that all seem very similar, and are at similar stages of development. So, I want to be convinced where to put my money.
Thanks,
Interesting project, thanks for the information. I have some questions, if you don't mind?
Length of development: How long have you been working on this project? When did you come up with the idea? Why are you now doing an IPO?
IPO: I like your approach of being honest and saying that you don't think crypto is close to mass adoption, and as such you would not create your own coin but take payment from current major coins - whether of not I agree, I can see your logic. And following from that, you state that you are conducting an IPO, not ICO. So, my question is, where are you planning to list? I guess not America, as issuing tokens in this format would be (to my understanding) against the SEC rules? Also, if you are planning to remain anonymous, how will you register a company?
You then state "At IPO, Series A investors can, at their election, participate in a stock buyback program of up to 20% of their shares (an instant 200% ROI)" - to clarify, that means that if I buy in now at $1/share, I can sell 20% of my holdings at $10/share in December?
You are aiming to sell 10,000,000 shares, is that correct (5m in Series A sale + 5m in IPO)? How many are being held by the development team? What will be the total amount?
Why are you planning an IPO now? I mean there are other established sites that do a similar thing, and I don't recall any of those having fundraisers or going public?
Security/Anonymity/Censorship: You explain that this will not be handled by blockchain (although transactions can be made through anonymous cryptos if the users choose), however you must see that - especially posting on this forum - that an argument could be made that your data would be more secure, users could be more anonymous, and the platform more censorship resistant, if you were to integrate more with blockchain? On your website, it states that "throwing some JavaScript and blockchain technology won't solve real world problems" - I can see your point, but I think it deserves more of a discussion than that. I also note that one of your competitors, Nocta, is stating similar things.
You mention that "being extrajurisdictional and anonymous, Pink minimizes legal risk for everyone involved. Pink is immune to subpoenas". Could you expand on that? How is this possible?
Competition: Is it fair to say you are trying to provide a service that is somewhere between adultwork.com and tinder? But where Pink will also add content/value with algorithms and customer service?
Could you explain the differences, if any, between Pink, Nocta and SSIO? From what little I can tell, I think that Pink are offering more of a matchmaking service than the other 2, which are more like listings site that provide ecosystems for payments. I think it's curious that these 3 have all come up at around the same time, do you have any thoughts on that?
Development: You don't really mention anything about your process, unlike Nocta (who state they have consulted with sexworkers etc) and SSIO who have been putting out a lot of articles and research. What inspired Pink into existence? Who are you working with and discussing with?
Marketing: With a team wanting to remain anonymous, and users who want to remain anonymous, how to you plan to generate any hype around this project? Also, how do you plan to grow users?
I hope you don't mind all the questions. Basically I believe there would be a lot of potential users for a platform like this, but it is hard to choose an investment with 3 projects that all seem very similar, and are at similar stages of development. So, I want to be convinced where to put my money.
Thanks,
Hi!
I'd like to introduce you to Pink (https://pinkapp.io, https://medium.com/@PinkApp, https://twitter.com/@goPinkApp). Basically, we wondered if sex work was entirely legal, no restrictions, what would the startups in that area look like? Pink is the result of that idea. By operating as an extrajurisdictional company, we put morality over legality. An anonymously operating escort agency. Or, to be all Silicon Valley, Uber Meets Tinder or some obnoxious mash-up line like that.
We will operate as a full service company, transacting with both the clients and the providers. We take cash in addition to cryptocurrencies - expecting a sizable amount of users to want to use Bitcoin, let alone some random token or smart contract, is unrealistic. We're serious about solving real problems for real people. We aren't some well-intentioned-yet-clueless team that thinks JavaScript+blockchain is going to actually help sex workers. We're a real company, we'll have customer service. Yes, you can pick up the phone and call a support agent if you have trouble with our system. We'll issue refunds when needed. We're going to grow fast, and if we have to spend a bit of money along the way to earn a stellar reputation for excellent service, we will. Think how Amazon is happy to lose money on your individual orders because they know your lifetime value, we are going to do that for sex work.
Pink is not a token or coin, the ICO is selling shares in the company (token-shares or blockchain bearer shares) that issue dividends. Too many ICOs issue useless tokens that only serve to line their own pockets, and damage whatever product they're making. Pink doesn't do this at all. Pink is raising a Series A right now at $1/share. In January, we will have an IPO at $10/share, and offer a stock buyback to Series A investors, up to 20% of their shares. There will only be 12 million shares outstanding at IPO. You can buy shares with Bitcoin, Ether, or Monero - contact us if you need other arrangements. Dividend payments will prefer Monero but also offer Ether.
Pink offers a Tinder-like UI to view profiles and curate a favorites list. This is a far more engaging model than entering 50 different search parameters and seeing long lists of possible providers and trying to figure out which ones you like. Pink will use swipe information to help show interesting providers on a per-client basis. Think about it: For every provider, there's different photos that'd make the same client say Oh Yeah! vs Nah! We'll learn a clients preferences and help him discover his next all-time-favorite.
Pink handles scheduling, which is a huge boon to both clients and providers. As a client, getting even a same-day, let alone last-minute, appointment is a pain in the ass. A client has to contact a bunch of providers, wait for replies. Eventually, hour later, he might get some replies, then some of them will be annoyed he's wasting their time. With Pink's Instant Book feature, a client just selects his favorites and can request instantly and seamlessly. Providers love this, getting screened, serious clients to fill up extra time and maximize revenue. No more time wasters, no more clients refusing to screen.
Pink handles verification, which is a key step for provider safety. Our security measures are top-notch, stacking many privacy and security features. We make tradeoffs not feasible for other companies, but reasonable for us. For instance, our machines don't have hard drives, it's all RAM-based (plus Tarsnap for encrypted backups). More details here: https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-anonymity-and-other-techniques-815ee21c6da4
Pink actively engages the sex worker community, and our VP of Product and Business Development is an active escort (https://twitter.com/@SarahPinkApp). She is helping craft our verification and other policies as well as designing key aspects of the product's interaction. Pink is putting provider safety first. Clients risk their reputation and maybe marriage by buying sex. But sex workers risk being outed, loss of income, being robbed, raped, or worse. It's not symmetric.
We welcome all feedback, good or bad. I look forward to talking with you!
I'd like to introduce you to Pink (https://pinkapp.io, https://medium.com/@PinkApp, https://twitter.com/@goPinkApp). Basically, we wondered if sex work was entirely legal, no restrictions, what would the startups in that area look like? Pink is the result of that idea. By operating as an extrajurisdictional company, we put morality over legality. An anonymously operating escort agency. Or, to be all Silicon Valley, Uber Meets Tinder or some obnoxious mash-up line like that.
We will operate as a full service company, transacting with both the clients and the providers. We take cash in addition to cryptocurrencies - expecting a sizable amount of users to want to use Bitcoin, let alone some random token or smart contract, is unrealistic. We're serious about solving real problems for real people. We aren't some well-intentioned-yet-clueless team that thinks JavaScript+blockchain is going to actually help sex workers. We're a real company, we'll have customer service. Yes, you can pick up the phone and call a support agent if you have trouble with our system. We'll issue refunds when needed. We're going to grow fast, and if we have to spend a bit of money along the way to earn a stellar reputation for excellent service, we will. Think how Amazon is happy to lose money on your individual orders because they know your lifetime value, we are going to do that for sex work.
Pink is not a token or coin, the ICO is selling shares in the company (token-shares or blockchain bearer shares) that issue dividends. Too many ICOs issue useless tokens that only serve to line their own pockets, and damage whatever product they're making. Pink doesn't do this at all. Pink is raising a Series A right now at $1/share. In January, we will have an IPO at $10/share, and offer a stock buyback to Series A investors, up to 20% of their shares. There will only be 12 million shares outstanding at IPO. You can buy shares with Bitcoin, Ether, or Monero - contact us if you need other arrangements. Dividend payments will prefer Monero but also offer Ether.
Pink offers a Tinder-like UI to view profiles and curate a favorites list. This is a far more engaging model than entering 50 different search parameters and seeing long lists of possible providers and trying to figure out which ones you like. Pink will use swipe information to help show interesting providers on a per-client basis. Think about it: For every provider, there's different photos that'd make the same client say Oh Yeah! vs Nah! We'll learn a clients preferences and help him discover his next all-time-favorite.
Pink handles scheduling, which is a huge boon to both clients and providers. As a client, getting even a same-day, let alone last-minute, appointment is a pain in the ass. A client has to contact a bunch of providers, wait for replies. Eventually, hour later, he might get some replies, then some of them will be annoyed he's wasting their time. With Pink's Instant Book feature, a client just selects his favorites and can request instantly and seamlessly. Providers love this, getting screened, serious clients to fill up extra time and maximize revenue. No more time wasters, no more clients refusing to screen.
Pink handles verification, which is a key step for provider safety. Our security measures are top-notch, stacking many privacy and security features. We make tradeoffs not feasible for other companies, but reasonable for us. For instance, our machines don't have hard drives, it's all RAM-based (plus Tarsnap for encrypted backups). More details here: https://medium.com/@PinkApp/pink-app-trading-latency-for-anonymity-and-other-techniques-815ee21c6da4
Pink actively engages the sex worker community, and our VP of Product and Business Development is an active escort (https://twitter.com/@SarahPinkApp). She is helping craft our verification and other policies as well as designing key aspects of the product's interaction. Pink is putting provider safety first. Clients risk their reputation and maybe marriage by buying sex. But sex workers risk being outed, loss of income, being robbed, raped, or worse. It's not symmetric.
We welcome all feedback, good or bad. I look forward to talking with you!
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