Topic: [ANN] [PMC] Premine Coin | Rare | Mining Transaction Fee Proof of Concept - page 28. (Read 382879 times)

I hate that I agree with much of what you say.

I will say that yes, a revival can and will be seen as an attempt to benefit existing holders that have invested or held.
But if we really get right down to it, this is partly what it is.
The idea of PMC was not so special that it "MUST BE REVIVED AT ALL COSTS".
Our motivation to revive PMC may be selfish in part. But is that really a bad thing?
If that selfish motivation wasn't there, at least in part, would we even bother?
Or would we say "well, we tried, lets see what else is out there". I think the latter is more likely.

Your argument reminds me of arguments against capitalism (which I tend to agree with). Capitalism seems greedy and selfish, but it ultimately forces us to try to make people happy and provide things and services that make their lives better. Which company makes the most money? The one that makes the best product.
There is also an altruistic side of our motivations I think, that wants to take part in something successful and inherently fair.

The idea was not to grant any existing PMC holders any NEW PMC, just exchanging their current PMC1 for PMC2 so they could continue on. This was to make it fair for new members joining the community. Most people here have less than 500 PMC. As well, we can also see that the value of PMC will be diluted initially. The max coins of PMC1 is 500,000. Where as PMC2's max coins will have to be as high as 1.5 to 2 million.
This is a 300-400% increase in the number of coins.
You may ask, why would we do that to ourselves?
Well because we think the benefits outweigh the negatives.
For this initial dilution we give ourselves the chance to grow and our investments to become more valuable in the near future.

Very thoughtful post though. I will have to think about this.
You are very welcome to sit in on our chat.
I think I will like debating you  

Also, don't forget there are quite a few people who already supported PMC in the past. By donating to the multipool, making scritps etc. to distribute transaction fees, getting it on Poloniex in the first place, getting shops to accept it, even a charity is accepting it.

Without these people PMC would have been forgotten a long time ago, and reviving would have been pointless anyway.

not everyone can do something.
How many people does it really take to translate into other languages? 10?
then developers making services, maybe another 10, and then some people making blog posts. maybe 50-100.
This is a tiring way of getting support. It's fake, and doesn't reach as wide an audience.
And again, this would mean making set amounts of PMC for certain actions. This places a limit on the number of people who can participate.

if we say posting on your blog is worth 500 PMC and tweeting about it is worth 100 PMC We are then saying, only a max of 1000 people can post about it or tweet about it.

This also means arbitrarily setting a value for the coin. If we give it away to everyone we can make sure to reach the widest audience and not any one person gets too much PMC.

I think that we have enough history and standing with the community to not be accused of trying to scam a whole .5 BTC (talk about a vacation!).

At first thought I don't like the idea of rewarding donations, because then its basically an IPO for the new coin.
At second thought most people would be less likely to help out if theres nothing in it for them.
What those people need to understand is that if they hold any amount of PMC1 its in their best interests to get this done.
I've put .05 BTC in, which is roughly $27 at the current price. Ya I know, whoopty friggin do.
PMC1 holders will already have more stake in PMC2 so rewarding them more will seem unfair to new members. New members also won't care that someone put up .02 btc. To them it will be a new coin and so everyone should get the same reward. It's not their fault someone had to invest BTC to start the coin.

For the .5 BTC the developer will compile our coin from any source code, with our specifications for name, max height, staking interest, etc.
Also included is hosting for 1 node (necessary) and technical support if something goes wrong later on (only tech support, not additional development).

Once we have a new platform PMC can innovate structurally, instead of technically.

Hi All,

Here are my thoughts on the matter. Would welcome an opportunity to discuss further in an IRC meet.

This is what I had to say earlier.


There are a few things that I think should be considered.

Activity in and around PMC stopped. This is why it was delisted. No-one posted in the thread, no-one was trading it, the community fizzled away. This is an important and irrefutable fact.

Any 'revival' of PMC should be 'as new' - What I mean by this is that it should stay true to the original intentions of the coin. Those original intentions were an experiment to try to expose what would happen to BTC once it had all been mined.

It is important to note now that PMC was traded, people did make profit and people did make a lose. It can be strongly suggested that people who currently hold PMC either did not actively encourage it's use or take part in the community or bought it very cheap over the past several months (since the crash) in the hopes that they would make a profit at some point, a gamble.

Therefor, I very strongly suggest that very careful consideration should be given to any PMC revival that is slanted to the benefit of existing holders. There is no good reason to reward current holders of PMC in any greater way than new investors which may enter into the revival.

It is very easy to see and the suggest that a revival is to benefit existing holders that invested and/or are hurt that their PMC is worthless.

I believe the best way to proceed is to attempt a revival of the 'experiment'.

This could either be done with a hardfork of the current chain or, my preference, a new experiment should be started but with absolutely no exchange of existing PMC to the revival. It should be a completely new and fresh, clean experiment.

Absolutely no IPO, ever.

All that being said, I do have PMC - But that is my fault and I understand that.

Please PM me a date/time if there is to be an IRC meetup (as I will receive an email alert and will then know to jump in)

Why free giveaway and not distributed for bounties like NHZ. People getting coins for doing something like blogpromotion, translating, facebook,twitter etc.

I think most people in this community will not like having an IPO.
The beauty of premine was everyone could take part and it costed them nothing.
We don't need a large amount of money to move forward, and if we stay true to our name and plan out a premine with bounty funds we can use them until we can find a dedicated programmer to step in.

I'm sorry I didn't reply to this.
I fully agree with you. The "everyone gets X amount of coins" is a flawed model, for many reasons.
Primarily it sets a max cap on how many people can participate.

I've come up with a better solution that I've shared with KBroadfoot but I'd like to go over with you as well.
Maybe we could have a group chat on IRC or something.
It's not something we want to be telling the public about until it is hammered out.
I will say that I think it will not only award an appreciated amount of PMC2 to PMC1 holders/supporters but it will also increase demand and growth in the future.
KBroadfoot is available in the evenings EST time I believe. I'm free whenever.

Hey Zack, Just wanted to point out that no, it does not take more than .5 to pay someone to take the newest source code of any coin (Cinnicoin? Blackcoin?), modify the specs and compile it. This is the price hes quoted me.
It might cost a little bit more to get a good wallet compiled. But I can handle a lot of the front end GUI so this would reduce the workload on the programmer.

I would love to have a built-in chatroom in the wallet.
I've looked into the script and its actually very simple so I should be able to add that myself.
its just a shortcut to an IRC server and I already know how to implement it.
Again, this has already been done, its just a matter of a few modifications.

 

It isn´t so bad idea. I mean Mini IPO.
For example. We need 50 people into Mini IPO.
Max IPO investment will be 0.01. (better low than higher)(it can bring new people to this community)(and it is not big deal)
Don´t know what reward should be there for 0.01BTC in PMC+.

 
I know that there is donation addess, but donations are not enough strong engine to move forward.

We can use that address, but better for mini IPO.
I could be first.
If you agree about that.  
 

EDIT: I´m bright new in this comunity. But quiet impressed about history of this coin.

I wasn't trying to devalue your opinions. I just meant to say that they are stupid.

...

KIDDING! 

I do feel you are adverse to this change because of the work and time put into the existing infrastructure of PMC1.
This is why I said that we need to decide to do what is best for the currency itself, and not that which is best for preserving everyones pride.

People put a bunch of work into the block explorer and the paper wallet generator, etc. But should we NOT put out a burning building because it would require trampling the grass and flowers in the front lawn?
There are always sacrifices. Do you know how many times I've spent days or even weeks on something and then a client (or boss) decides "ok were going in a different direction, so lets redo all this"?
This shit happens. It happens all the time. I wish it didn't but it does. Do i get pissed off because I wasted a week working on something that will never make it to the final product? of course! But I suck up my pride because the end result is not about me or my contribution. It's about creating something good.

I just don't see us getting a programmer at this stage who is capable and available to make the changes necessary to preserve much of the existing infrastructure.

Sorry Nullu I confused you with the original dev. 

heres where I quoted him on the first page. He has since changed the main post.

kept on polo, confirmed

be warned that it takes a lot more than 0.5BTC to get a good coin coded especially if you want POS

A reminder of the donation addresses of TheMightyX:


>>>
Heres the BTC donation address: 1HMq6p6cEzCqVL1HKTMM6nG9bWHkkCEDRK
Remember we only need .5 BTC so please check it before you donate. Anything over .5 BTC I will assume is a donation towards a unique wallet (which is what I would like to do).

I've created a new PMC address as well: 1PTUASfFPU6gWWsQGYmF4wURbTzHSBq3SX
I would prefer donations in BTC because there is not enough buy orders on Poloniex to exchange the PMC to BTC so we can pay the developer.
But I suppose I will match any PMC donated with my own BTC at the current Poloniex rate of 0.0004 because I think that is a good rate.

I'll also start the donations with .05 BTC from myself. we only need 9/10 more people to donate .05 BTC to get started.
>>>

Lets get this done... 0.5 BTC amongst us all is not impossible.... we did it and then some just to get on HashCows...

0.5 BTC gets us the new coin... ( not the PMC to POS conversion )
We need to iron out the details... once the coin is made, we will be sitting on the various premines for swap and giveaways and such.

IF we are having issues with getting the donations, perhaps we could even set aside some coins of PMC+ for the donators... TheMightyX? Want to chime in here? ( Like a mini IPO )

PS:  Anyone who yells 'scammer' we don't need you anyway....

No, I'm not able to do this. However, my inability to do something does not negate or devalue my opinions. That's the nature of a forum.

I get the feeling that you somehow feel I am attacking the idea of the changeover. That is not the case. I'm simply mindful that whatever the plan going forward is, we end up with either one or two strong currencies, and not two weak ones.

I don't remember ever saying any such thing. In fact I have been, and was, strongly of the mind that the beauty of PMC was that throwing more hashpower at PMC didn't necessarily equate to more PMC, due to the nature of tx fee generation and the creation of empty blocks on the blockchain.

It has nothing to do with feelings, and almost entirely to do with fairness. If PMC has to be re-designed to survive, then I fully embrace that. My point is that those who invested their time and efforts into PMC shouldn't be an afterthought. PMC has built up a strong member community, and I think it would be an insult to them to consider them as an afterthought.

Nobody could really argue that a long-time PMC supporter has more contributive value than someone who joins at the start of the new currency. I'm simply stating the obvious.

I am, don't worry 

So, I was away for a day, and lots of activity here That's a good start at least!

I think I agree that PMC does not seem to bee attractive enough to keep mining/trading/using, so it would be better to create or transform PMC to a new PMC+. I don't mind using an entirely new blockchain, since that probably is by far the easiest.

We could do the swap in two ways I think:

- Ask poloniex to take care of the swap. I know Tristan did so at least for Coin2. He converted all old chain coins to new chain coins.
- Use the Androidstoken way. I saw Zackclark replying here a few times. The ADT to ADT2 move was quite nice. You had to send your coins to a specific address, with a comment containing your new chain address. Then you would automatically get new coins on your new address. Zackclark, maybe you could tell us whether this would be an option for PMC too?

What I think is important, whatever way we choose, is that there is a swapover time of at least 2 weeks. There have been coins with 24hour or 48hour swap-overs, which is just ridiculous. However, I don't think a timeframe of multiple months would be a good thing either. Multiple months is a long time in crypto, and there needs to be some certainty. For example, if only half of the current coins is being swapped, we need to know at some point what the total amount of coins in circulation will be, and 6 months is just way too long.

Another way to approach this could be like this:
- 1.000.000 coins created
- In initial phase people can register for new giveaway, but only people who swap over will get coins with some 'interest rate' (25% extra or so?). This would mean that a maximum of 625k coins will be given to 'old' PMC holders.
- After initial phase, a lot of the remaining coins are given away to new stakeholders (who registered during initial phase). There should be a maximum per person, and there should be some left for POS rewards.


So, to conclude, I think a brand new POS chain is the way to go. We still need to work out how to do the swapover however.