Topic: [ANN] [PMC] Premine Coin | Rare | Mining Transaction Fee Proof of Concept - page 29. (Read 382879 times)

Poloniex has granted us a reprieve.... He wants progress reports, however...

The developer I contacted for this wants to charge a flat fee for the development of a new PoS and the option of a unique wallet. He will not be available for further or more complex developments. For that we would need to find a developer who is willing to work mostly on premine coins. This is going to be a little bit harder because most competent developers don't have the time or resources to dedicate to working pro-bono for a chance at future compensation. This is a dilemma.

I have enough development/coding experience to tell you that it is 100% possible to convert a coin from PoW to PoS. I also have the experience to tell you that it is a much more complex task than taking the newest PoS source code from whichever github, changing the reward specs and name, and releasing it as a new coin.

That's why I mentioned if Nullu can do it then that solves everything. If not you are posing a hypothetical "ideal" solution to our issue.
Obviously if we can modify PMC that would be the best course of action. and if we can do that then we should. But with the state of the coin and the community, putting faith in future profits is a risk for anyone.

When facing a situation like this in basic risk asssessment you are faced with very few "safe" options. The risk-reward ratio of these options are going to be so low that "playing it safe" and "ideally we would do this" plans are tantamount to failure.
For example, in this ideal scenario we would put up a job posting on this forum and maybe elance or whichever other sites. We would accept applications from developers and try to pick the one most suited to the job. This could take anywhere from several days (ya right) to several weeks (more likely). And even then, most likely due to the compensation strategy ("hey we'll give you some coins that might be worth something later on, or they might not, who knows") we are just going to be settling on whichever unemployed programmer has better english skills. Once we get this programmer hes then going to have to go through the process of reworking the code which could take anywhere from a week to a month depending on his knowledge and experience with the bitcoin protocol.

All the while, Poloniex is de-listing us, hashcows can't payout in PMC people will panic, so the price is going to tank even more. once the price drops to 1 satoshi it will be easy for a "whale" to come along and buy several hundred thousand PMC for .1 BTC or so.
Then when and if we do complete the task of recreating PMC and we accept trade-ins of PMC1 to PMC2 we now have a few large whales controlling 5%, 10%, maybe even 20% or more of all the coins and whats worse is we lost many of the original community who sold out because of panic and uncertainty.
Even worse, instead of having a fair distribution, we are then forced to alot a large chunk of PMC2 for this new developer. Instead of relying on bounties and the community, a large portion of the new PMC would be controlled by this developer.

The solution I've proposed isn't ideal, but it gets us somewhere safe very quickly. This developer can have our new coin within days of payment and we can start focusing on community building and marketing. Theres very little "extra" features that a coin needs right off the bat. The extra features can be implemented later or via bounties. I'm confident that we can structure the new coin in a way as to attract fresh blood to our community and add value so that our bounties are actually desirable to competent developers.

We also need a PMC/PMC+ historian....

All the major developments and heartbreaks from the beginning to the present...

PMC's "innovation' was 100 percent premine against the then complete distrust of premined coin...
And setbacks on 'airdrops' followed, but an amazing amount of charity came from PMC...

PMC's next innovation is OUR desire to change with the times but hold on to our roots...

Ask your Dev guy if converting PMC1 to POS is possible... with the added 500,000 coin 'premine' tacked on and the POS interest...

HOWEVER, if it doesn't seem easy or make sense:

I volunteer to accept PMC for destruction and replacement with PMC2 ( i.e. Manager number 2 )

And I nominate Nullu to head up the re-distribution of the other 500,000 ( i.e. Manager number 1 )

And you, TheMightyX, are the new chairman of the PMC2/PMC project....  i.e. Project Manager...

Also, this method does keep PMC, as a coin intact and even more rare and can be handed off to yet another unamed interested party AFTER we are done...


Also PMC people... this is just a Transition Team.... we need many more people involved for all the other stuff... paper Wallets, Exchanges..  Stores.... Innovation... etc... Block explorors etc...


Also PMC ( premine ) becomes PMC+ ( PremiumCoin )

I agree that it would be much simpler if people could just use their wallet files with the new blockchain. It would make the transition much simpler.
But this would require converting PMC1 to PoS which is much more complex than just starting a new PoS blockchain.
We would also have to modify the block reward structure to pay out another large premine which would need to be mined by a manager before the coin is released.
is Nullu willing to do this for us?
I'm all for keeping the PMC1 blockchain intact if we can modify it to be competitive and give us the tools we need to advance.
but if Nullu is not willing or unable to do that... we need to do whats best for the community, not whats best for anyones ego or pride.
That was not an attack on Nullu, I'm just saying we should not shy away from doing what we need to do because we don't want to hurt someones feelings.
Again, I am all for converting PMC1 if possible.

what mistakes?

I appreciate wanting to keep what you have created alive.
But we need to ask ourselves if that is because what we have created is useful, or if its for purely personal reasons.
I have a feeling its the latter.

When this first started Nullu even said, whoever has the highest hash is going to get all the tx fees.

So even if PMC was valuable, the only person that would get any rewards would be whoever has the most ASICs.
Is that egalitarian?
Obviously not.

We can modify PoS so that it too pays out tx fees instead of staking interest (once it reaches a max height).
For example it could stake interest until the total number of PMC has doubled over the course of a few years.
This would give PMC enough time to mature in value and attract a developer that can implement this change.
Once it reaches that max height PMC+ could revert to a PoS-for-Fees system, just like the PoW-for-Fees system of PMC1, only faster and more secure.
The great thing about PoS in the case of PMC is everyone would have a relatively equal stake, and so the minting would be fairly relative throughout the network! there would be no large whales!

I just really don't see the point in keeping both currencies.
I would be interested to hear any arguments on the merit of keeping PMC1 around after a switch to PMC2.

It's not so much the issue of leaving PMC behind I question, but how you value the conversion rate from PMC to PMC+, or whatever it'll be called.

Also the method of giveaway has to be different than it was originally. The original giveaway model was flawed, as many just grabbed and sat on their coins. Anyone still with PMC is clearly someone who is more valuable to the new currency than someone who had no faith in the currency and has none, or sold all of their PMC.

My point is, the distribution method has to be fairer, and the rewards to those who worked hard for PMC and still hold PMC should reflect their contributions.  All things being equal, if person A has 500 PMC+ because he converted his PMC, and person B has 500 PMC because he was simply given it, then person A is at a huge disadvantage, so you either give more to person A, or less to person B. Meaning, either the conversion rate is higher, or the giveaway amount of PMC+ is considerably lower per person than in the original giveaway.

I'm also all for a reward-based giveaway system where coins are given to active community members, rather than someone who has no interest in actually investing in the future of the currency whatsoever.

I'm less concerned with shifting to the new currency than I am of the system of exchange and distribution being fair and well thought out.

just an FYI this has all been done before with trade coin and I mentioned that at the start of this thread in hope of someone learnin from the mistakes tradecoin made

Ahh he lives!

Not to be rude but PMC is dead. We should not be trying to resuscitate a dead cow here. We need to take what we have learned from PMC and carry it forward.

Trying to "keep PMC1 alive" is ultimately pointless if you are not going to be around to continue to develop it and foster its growth.
I mean no offense to you Nullu.

Here are my thoughts:

Keeping PMC1 alive is pointless because there is very little incentive to secure the network, a 51% would costs literally a few dollars on leaserigs. It's also pointless because there is no innovation to drive the market and encourage growth.
You mention this will lead to an increase in PMC buying and that is true, but after this window closes, then what is the point of holding that PMC?
You are creating this artificial market demand that will die the instant that window is closed. Is that really helpful to the currency at all? no, it will do nothing but allow a select few to cash out and the rest to become bagholders of a doomed currency.

As well you mention we could open up mining on the new coin. This would go against what PMC stands for. Why call it premine when its only part premined?

I think you may be opposed to the idea of moving to PMC+ because you see it as destroying what you have created.
I would like to say that PMC+ should not be a destruction, but an evolution. We are taking the key ideal of PMC and moving it forward. This is something that is impossible with the current structure of PMC.

We are simply moving the core principles of PMC from one vehicle to another.

By doing so we can ensure that there is room for growth and the support needed to expand.

TheMightyX, Nullu is a LONG TIME supporter, who wants to keep PMC intact... so we need to discuss this side of things a little more...
He thinks, perhaps, your PMC held should translate into the new coin... that would require some sort of 'magical' blockchain and address recreation in the new coin...

Otherwise I can't see how to do it... if we don't destroy the PMC for the swap, you can't gaurentee double dipping...

However, this is something that can be set aside while the new coin is created and started up.... after we have the premined addresses up and running on the new coin, we can try and figure out how to map PMC to PMC+..

I do want a window for this, though....  6 months... 1 year... i don't care... but the coins need to separate at some point in the future....

Great idea.
Thank you for doing that.

I'm going to be working out the details over the next day or two. I'd like to talk to Kbroadfoot about a few things before we set anything in stone. If anyone has any ideas or concerns feel free to message me.

Heres the BTC donation address: 1HMq6p6cEzCqVL1HKTMM6nG9bWHkkCEDRK
Remember we only need .5 BTC so please check it before you donate. Anything over .5 BTC I will assume is a donation towards a unique wallet (which is what I would like to do).

I've created a new PMC address as well: 1PTUASfFPU6gWWsQGYmF4wURbTzHSBq3SX
I would prefer donations in BTC because there is not enough buy orders on Poloniex to exchange the PMC to BTC so we can pay the developer.
But I suppose I will match any PMC donated with my own BTC at the current Poloniex rate of 0.0004 because I think that is a good rate.

I'll also start the donations with .05 BTC from myself. we only need 9/10 more people to donate .05 BTC to get started.

no fork, pmc needs giveaway

I have no issue with a fork, where you could use your PMC wallet and move over to the new fork, so you both have PMC and the new currency, but any sort of 1 for 1 conversion is just going to lead to a poor conversion rate, and I think it would be detrimental to both coins.

Reward PMC holders and give them a 2 week window to buy PMC for the new coin. Announce which block the fork will occur (two weeks roughly from announcement). Any coins prior to the fork can be copied over to the new coin wallet. Now anyone who owned PMC before the new coin has both currencies. Not only does this lead to an increase in PMC buying, but it's also considerably fairer on those who still strongly believe in PMC.

You could double the amount available for the new coin, so that means 50% of the coin is minable, and the other 50% (or in this case, probably a lot less) will be from PMC conversion.

PMC is a great concept, and it shouldn't be killed off. Rather used a platform, than treated as a carcase that needs to be picked of its remains.

I still think the 100 pages of people who earned PMC in the first giveaway have already earned their PMC+ by the virtue of the fact they already received PMC...  the next 500,000 PMC+ is given by equal footing to all, PMC holders and NON PMC holders alike...

There are two projects ( besides the usual development stuff )

1) Managing the acceptance and destruction of PMC for 500,000 PMC+ and the ultimate destruction of the remaining PMC+

2) Managing the distribution of the 500,000 extra PMC+

( Then of course all the other fun stuff, paper wallets, apps, faucets, etc etc etc... )

These two main projects are separate threads on BitcoinTalk... with separate management... and NO NEED for chit chat between each other... ( reduce confusion )

We need three people: 1) A Dev, 2) A PMC/PMC+ swap/destroy and ultimate destruction manager, and 3) A giveaway manager...

1) Is obvious, a smart person who is taking the reigns.

2) A meticulous 'checking it twice' person... who will be going over transaction ID's and messages from hundreds of people

3) A public/marketing type....  

 

many old accounts there. Fresh blood is fresh blood

I just tested bitcointa.lk by making the quoted post and deleting it. It looks like bitcoita.lk retains deleted posts.


You can check for yourself here.

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-pmc-premine-coin-rare-mining-transaction-fee-proof-of-concept.243482/page-390#post-6615516

Here is a cached copy of the premine thread, hosted by bitcointa.lk

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-pmc-premine-coin-rare-mining-transaction-fee-proof-of-concept.243482/

I doubt anyone could delete posts from this, but maybe it auto updates any deletions.

Well, it could be a community effort? split it up for 10 people, 10 pages each?
that seems rather manageable doesnt it?

I heard from Poloniex.... We may have an answer soon on de-listing delay...
Plus if this is done right, there is going to be a buying frenzy shortly on Poloniex for PMC... better get some now...