[ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com - page 477.

h2odysee

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Quote from: TierNolan on August 20, 2013, 08:18:36 AM

Having said that, when a switch happens, the pool should still accept shares for the old chain.

What would happen here?

- miner finds a LTC block
- pool switches to some other chain
- miner submits LTC block to pool

Would that count as a rejected block?

Yeah, unfortunately that block will be rejected.

Liquidfire

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: Damnsammit on August 20, 2013, 12:38:33 PM

Quote from: Liquidfire on August 20, 2013, 12:36:09 PM

Without seeing the secret sauce, the best way to tell if we switch coins is to just listen to your cards throttle down. I don't think it happens too often, maybe 5-10 minutes sometimes but I am just guessing... i know I have been in my office for hours and not heard it before as well.

So then wouldn't it mean that as long as your average share time was under 5-10 minutes then the difficulty would not affect anything?

No. This "loss/waste of hashpower" happens both when we change coins AND when a block changes. In that said 5-10 minutes, we might burn through 4-5 blocks, or we might get 1 block, or none, or whatever, depending on the coin.

Damnsammit

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Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Liquidfire on August 20, 2013, 12:36:09 PM

Without seeing the secret sauce, the best way to tell if we switch coins is to just listen to your cards throttle down. I don't think it happens too often, maybe 5-10 minutes sometimes but I am just guessing... i know I have been in my office for hours and not heard it before as well.

So then wouldn't it mean that as long as your average share time was under 5-10 minutes then the difficulty would not affect anything?

captainfuture

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Quote from: Eastwind on August 20, 2013, 12:35:02 PM

What is the difficulty level at Multipool?

on the us server u can set it by yourself now

Liquidfire

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Damnsammit on August 20, 2013, 12:31:35 PM

Quote from: Liquidfire on August 20, 2013, 12:23:52 PM

When we mine LTC or novacoin or something like that, this shit doesn't really matter at all. The problem is these coins that we find blocks for in minutes or less.

That's not addressing what I don't understand though.

If we find a block in a minute, we don't necessarily move to another coin.

IF MinerAvgShareTime > CoinMiningTime THEN Profit = Lost
IF MinerAvgShareTime < CoinMiningTime THEN Profit = Gained

Are there many instances where we are only mining a specific coin for a minute or two? I haven't paid close attention to the total duration of each specific coins, but I've been pleased with the overall results of this pool and my hashrate is less than 1MH/s

Ok, i see what you are confused on.

We keep talking about when we change blocks, but the same thing happens when we switch coins, too. Its just that since that happens much much less, and is part of the secret formula of the pool, its not worth mentioning really. Yet, lowering diff helps optimize it just the same way.

Without seeing the secret sauce, the best way to tell if we switch coins is to just listen to your cards throttle down. I don't think it happens too often, maybe 5-10 minutes sometimes but I am just guessing... i know I have been in my office for hours and not heard it before as well.

Eastwind

hero member

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What is the difficulty level at Multipool?

Damnsammit

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Liquidfire on August 20, 2013, 12:23:52 PM

When we mine LTC or novacoin or something like that, this shit doesn't really matter at all. The problem is these coins that we find blocks for in minutes or less.

That's not addressing what I don't understand though.

If we find a block in a minute, we don't necessarily move to another coin.

IF MinerAvgShareTime > CoinMiningTime THEN Profit = Lost
IF MinerAvgShareTime < CoinMiningTime THEN Profit = Gained

Are there many instances where we are only mining a specific coin for a minute or two? I haven't paid close attention to the total duration of each specific coins, but I've been pleased with the overall results of this pool and my hashrate is less than 1MH/s

Liquidfire

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: Damnsammit on August 20, 2013, 12:11:45 PM

I guess that's what I don't understand.

Instead of average block time, wouldn't it make more sense to use total time that xCoin is mined?

If we are only on a coin for 20 seconds and you only find a share every minute, then it makes sense that you won't expect to earn any shares. However, if the average block time is 1s (or 30s or 1m) but we mine the coin for an hour, shouldn't you still be expected to get 60 shares in that hour?

That's the point - the effect is lessened if the average block time is higher. Or put another way, the effect is not even worth bitching about with long block times. However, we mine some very quick coins sometimes and the effect is exponentially magnified the shorter the block time.

When we mine LTC or novacoin or something like that, this shit doesn't really matter at all. The problem is these coins that we find blocks for in minutes or less.

Damnsammit

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Activity: 406

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I guess that's what I don't understand.

Instead of average block time, wouldn't it make more sense to use total time that xCoin is mined?

If we are only on a coin for 20 seconds and you only find a share every minute, then it makes sense that you won't expect to earn any shares. However, if the average block time is 1s (or 30s or 1m) but we mine the coin for an hour, shouldn't you still be expected to get 60 shares in that hour?

STT

legendary

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That sounds like it would help so long as the pool is not finding more then 60 blocks per minute.

The coin right now is just fine and its high diff, I guess ltc as that would be the highest. If the pool switches to very fast blocks I would suggest anyone 500 kh or lower just go mine elsewhere and come back later. For example I see spot coin appears very good reward at the moment, its producing enough for me to swap it out daily if I want

Liquidfire

newbie

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So i took my work on my spreadsheet and put it into a single formula.. then i realized... Its WAY simpler than all of that makes it seem.

Given a particular diff rate and difficulty, and the values of x and y that result from that:

If:

X = Average time for miner to find a share

Y = Average block find time

x/2*y = Percentage of LOST profit/hashpower

It's really as simple as that.

The solution is as simple as lowering X. How do you lower X? Lower difficulty.

Edit: Forgot the /2 part, because you'll be at a random point of progress on the share each time a block changes, averaging to half complete

bigdaub

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Gentleman lower you scantime to 1 Your miner will check every second for a new block. This causes more network traffic but you wont have to worry about working on the wrong block.

Damnsammit

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Quote from: Kuroth on August 20, 2013, 11:39:43 AM

But one thing someone said a few pages back that I did not understand that I would like to understand is someone said something like H20 dont care as he will make the same no matter what.. What does that mean exactly? Is not what H20 makes based on what we make and if we make more he makes more?

Regardless of difficulty, what pays all of the miners and the pool operator is the number of blocks found.

Miners are paid out based of succesful shares of the found blocks. Whether Miner A gets 70% shares and Miner B gets 30% shares or any other combination, Pool Op still gets fees on all 100% shares. His profit is only affected by the total hashrate and the market depth that determines which coins are the most profitable.

As I stated before, the thing more important than changing the difficulty (as I don't see how this affects the pool overall) is finding a way to divert hashrate to multiple coins to take advantage of coins with smaller, but profitable, market depth on their perspective market.

ranlo

legendary

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Quote from: Kuroth on August 20, 2013, 11:39:43 AM

I am still staying out of this converstaion as I REALLY dont understand it all..

But one thing someone said a few pages back that I did not understand that I would like to understand is someone said something like H20 dont care as he will make the same no matter what.. What does that mean exactly? Is not what H20 makes based on what we make and if we make more he makes more?

When you find a block it is submitted instantly (this is unrelated to "shares"). Therefore it doesn't matter whether difficulty is 1 or 50 billion, if anyone finds a block it is submitted. The only people affected by difficulty are the miners, since the same number of blocks are submitted regardless (and his fee is therefore the same regardless).

Hope that clarifies that point.

bigdaub

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Lower your scantime in cgminer

Damnsammit

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Quote from: Liquidfire on August 20, 2013, 11:35:28 AM

What do you mean my sample size is too small? I didn't use a sample size, since I didn't use real data. I used static variables to show examples of variances between miner speed and coin difficulty. You don't need a sample for that, since all we care about is the relationship between the fast and slow miners, not actual earnings.

Sorry I've been on edge lately. Never intended to get personal and start calling people stupid... especially when they know more about the subject than I do

I'd have to the see the spreadsheet to see the error of my ways. I just don't personally believe that the difficulty matters in the long-run

Kuroth

full member

Activity: 196

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I am still staying out of this converstaion as I REALLY dont understand it all..

But one thing someone said a few pages back that I did not understand that I would like to understand is someone said something like H20 dont care as he will make the same no matter what.. What does that mean exactly? Is not what H20 makes based on what we make and if we make more he makes more?

Liquidfire

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Damnsammit on August 20, 2013, 11:27:56 AM

You missed the last part where I criticized your sample size for being too small.

What do you mean my sample size is too small? I didn't use a sample size, since I didn't use real data. I used static variables to show examples of variances between miner speed and coin difficulty. You don't need a sample for that, since all we care about is the relationship between the fast and slow miners, not actual earnings.

Damnsammit

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Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Liquidfire on August 20, 2013, 11:22:02 AM

You obviously don't understand statistics at all, that is the whole point of an average - to predict future values based on past values. And the larger the sample size the better an average is at doing so.

You missed the last part where I criticized your sample size for being too small.

Edit: Although, I do like this math. It's fun for me and my favorite baseball team. Based on yesterday's results (big enough sample size for most everyone that is arguing difficulty here, no?) My Rangers are going to average 1.78 runs every inning for the rest of the year. World Series here we come baby!

TierNolan

legendary

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Quote from: Liquidfire on August 20, 2013, 10:52:04 AM

Now obviously there are downsides to a diff to low for the fast guys, which is why I think variable diff is the only good solution.

The only cost due to a block change is due to latency.

The miner mines for a few seconds until it receives notification of the new block.

A faster miner will mine more in those few seconds, so proportionally takes the same loss.

Topic: [ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com - page 477. (Read 829908 times)