[ANN] QIBUCK COIN - X13 - POS/POBH - 1st Proof of Baghold and asset backed. - page 55.

armin22

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Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 08:30:40 AM

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 08:29:18 AM

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 08:28:04 AM

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 08:26:22 AM

50BTC for ATM's
11.4BTC is Spent

If we spent another 25BTC, we'd only have 13BTC Left

Not much we can do with that, so how will we actually make dividends worth it?

Well, I guess we'd have to rely on the ATMs and what is spent already? If we're not getting a return on that, I don't see how 25 more would help. Realize that any return you got from ATMs would be doubled because the burned coins wouldn't receive a dividend.

Then why dont we hold a poll and let the community decide? I mean since you all voted for something like anonymous wallets, burning coins will probably be voted for too...

I'm fine with a poll. Btw, I didn't vote for an anonymous wallet. I think that's dumb (for this coin). I still don't understand why you're not getting the math though.

Sure i get the math, but there's no 100% guarantee that it will actually happen

pseudonymdude

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Activity: 896

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Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 08:29:18 AM

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 08:28:04 AM

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 08:26:22 AM

50BTC for ATM's
11.4BTC is Spent

If we spent another 25BTC, we'd only have 13BTC Left

Not much we can do with that, so how will we actually make dividends worth it?

Well, I guess we'd have to rely on the ATMs and what is spent already? If we're not getting a return on that, I don't see how 25 more would help. Realize that any return you got from ATMs would be doubled because the burned coins wouldn't receive a dividend.

Then why dont we hold a poll and let the community decide? I mean since you all voted for something like anonymous wallets, burning coins will probably be voted for too...

I'm fine with a poll. Btw, I didn't vote for an anonymous wallet. I think that's dumb (for this coin). I still don't understand why you're not getting the math though.

armin22

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 08:28:04 AM

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 08:26:22 AM

50BTC for ATM's
11.4BTC is Spent

If we spent another 25BTC, we'd only have 13BTC Left

Not much we can do with that, so how will we actually make dividends worth it?

Well, I guess we'd have to rely on the ATMs and what is spent already? If we're not getting a return on that, I don't see how 25 more would help. Realize that any return you got from ATMs would be doubled because the burned coins wouldn't receive a dividend.

Then why dont we hold a poll and let the community decide? I mean since you all voted for something like anonymous wallets, burning coins will probably be voted for too...

pseudonymdude

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 08:26:22 AM

50BTC for ATM's
11.4BTC is Spent

If we spent another 25BTC, we'd only have 13BTC Left

Not much we can do with that, so how will we actually make dividends worth it?

Well, I guess we'd have to rely on the ATMs and what is spent already? If we're not getting a return on that, I don't see how 25 more would help. Realize that any return you got from ATMs would be doubled because the burned coins wouldn't receive a dividend.

armin22

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

50BTC for ATM's
11.4BTC is Spent

If we spent another 25BTC, we'd only have 13BTC Left

Not much we can do with that, so how will we actually make dividends worth it?

pseudonymdude

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 08:18:20 AM

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 08:14:58 AM

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 07:45:05 AM

What is all of this burning rubbish? Why should we waste funds on a process which doesn't guarantee anything and has a very slim chance of actually succeeding? I have a feeling most of you people came from XBC or something. Think again, spending 25BTC from funds would just be a waste of money. Once you show me proof that this method has succeeded, then i'll consider changing my mind.

Do you not understand the math? It's pretty basic. Look at this explanation again.

The reason that there is only 1 coin at 3 BTC per coin in scenario two is that 1 coin from scenario one was bought back at 1 BTC (half price) and burned.

Let's say there is only 2 BTC per coin and only 2 coins in scenario 1 and only 3 BTC per coin and only 1 coin in scenario 2. In both scenarios, assume buy-in price was 2 BTC per coin.

Scenario one.

100% total gain

They double their 4 BTC to 8 BTC. Each coin gets paid 4 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 4 -2 = 2 per coin.

Scenario two.

100% total gain

They double their 3 BTC to 6 BTC. Each coin gets paid 6 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 6 -2 = 4 per coin.

Get it?

Think again, if we "burn" coins and are left with only the high sell orders, who would even touch them?

?

If we bought 250,000 coins for 25 BTC, we would have 75 BTC left over and only 250,000 coins would be left.

If we bought 499,999 coins for 49.9999 BTC, we would have 1 coin with 50 BTC left over, meaning that one coin would technically be worth 50 BTC.

I don't understand why you guys are getting this. Buying up and burning coins might not work if the price is over the IPO, but when it's below, it makes perfect sense.

armin22

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 08:14:58 AM

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 07:45:05 AM

What is all of this burning rubbish? Why should we waste funds on a process which doesn't guarantee anything and has a very slim chance of actually succeeding? I have a feeling most of you people came from XBC or something. Think again, spending 25BTC from funds would just be a waste of money. Once you show me proof that this method has succeeded, then i'll consider changing my mind.

Do you not understand the math? It's pretty basic. Look at this explanation again.

The reason that there is only 1 coin at 3 BTC per coin in scenario two is that 1 coin from scenario one was bought back at 1 BTC (half price) and burned.

Let's say there is only 2 BTC per coin and only 2 coins in scenario 1 and only 3 BTC per coin and only 1 coin in scenario 2. In both scenarios, assume buy-in price was 2 BTC per coin.

Scenario one.

100% total gain

They double their 4 BTC to 8 BTC. Each coin gets paid 4 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 4 -2 = 2 per coin.

Scenario two.

100% total gain

They double their 3 BTC to 6 BTC. Each coin gets paid 6 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 6 -2 = 4 per coin.

Get it?

Think again, if we "burn" coins and are left with only the high sell orders, who would even touch them?

pseudonymdude

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Also, I don't know what happened with XBC, but the developer took the funds and ran. He didn't put his 50 BTC into the coin.

pseudonymdude

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: armin22 on August 13, 2014, 07:45:05 AM

What is all of this burning rubbish? Why should we waste funds on a process which doesn't guarantee anything and has a very slim chance of actually succeeding? I have a feeling most of you people came from XBC or something. Think again, spending 25BTC from funds would just be a waste of money. Once you show me proof that this method has succeeded, then i'll consider changing my mind.

Do you not understand the math? It's pretty basic. Look at this explanation again.

The reason that there is only 1 coin at 3 BTC per coin in scenario two is that 1 coin from scenario one was bought back at 1 BTC (half price) and burned.

Let's say there is only 2 BTC per coin and only 2 coins in scenario 1 and only 3 BTC per coin and only 1 coin in scenario 2. In both scenarios, assume buy-in price was 2 BTC per coin.

Scenario one.

100% total gain

They double their 4 BTC to 8 BTC. Each coin gets paid 4 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 4 -2 = 2 per coin.

Scenario two.

100% total gain

They double their 3 BTC to 6 BTC. Each coin gets paid 6 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 6 -2 = 4 per coin.

Get it?

armin22

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

What is all of this burning rubbish? Why should we waste funds on a process which doesn't guarantee anything and has a very slim chance of actually succeeding? I have a feeling most of you people came from XBC or something. Think again, spending 25BTC from funds would just be a waste of money. Once you show me proof that this method has succeeded, then i'll consider changing my mind.

BITDV

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Activity: 1400

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Undeads.com - P2E Runner Game

Quote from: Bitcoin_Mafia_Me on August 13, 2014, 06:54:22 AM

Quote from: BBmodBB on August 13, 2014, 01:26:21 AM

AGAIN ====> Final Balance 0 BTC

https://blockchain.info/address/1BYoZsDJW294zHsFWmtED2Sxaajpm63nxZ

Roll Eyes

Go back to that address above. See how your mouse pointer changes when it hovers over that address? That's caled a LINK.
Click it and this amazing thing happens. You can follow the money!

I know you just want to watch QBK burn - you seem to have a hardon for it, in fact, but damn. Not that you
have any particular right to it, but for anyone else who is wondering what's up with that address, here's a
screen grab of my IRC conversation w/ busoni asking for the address in the first place, and his response to me.

Make of it what you will. I have done everything I can to prove to you all that we are not holding the ICO funds
and that we have no direct access to them.

BBmodBB - I notice that you have yet to ask busoni directly. Or perhaps you did and he confirmed what we've
been saying all along. You would never post that, of course, because it would prove we were telling the truth.

Anyone - and I mean ANYONE - is more than welcome to contact busoni over at Poloniex and ask for yourselves.
I encourage it and hope you will post his response here in the thread.

You guys have put more than enough proof up to satisfy , people should just let you guys get on with your work!!

Bitcoin_Mafia_Me

sr. member

Activity: 560

Merit: 252

BitcoinerX.com - PM for Ad Info

Quote from: BBmodBB on August 13, 2014, 01:26:21 AM

AGAIN ====> Final Balance 0 BTC

https://blockchain.info/address/1BYoZsDJW294zHsFWmtED2Sxaajpm63nxZ

Roll Eyes

Go back to that address above. See how your mouse pointer changes when it hovers over that address? That's caled a LINK.
Click it and this amazing thing happens. You can follow the money!

I know you just want to watch QBK burn - you seem to have a hardon for it, in fact, but damn. Not that you
have any particular right to it, but for anyone else who is wondering what's up with that address, here's a
screen grab of my IRC conversation w/ busoni asking for the address in the first place, and his response to me.

Make of it what you will. I have done everything I can to prove to you all that we are not holding the ICO funds
and that we have no direct access to them.

BBmodBB - I notice that you have yet to ask busoni directly. Or perhaps you did and he confirmed what we've
been saying all along. You would never post that, of course, because it would prove we were telling the truth.

Anyone - and I mean ANYONE - is more than welcome to contact busoni over at Poloniex and ask for yourselves.
I encourage it and hope you will post his response here in the thread.

pseudonymdude

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: poornamelessme on August 13, 2014, 03:32:33 AM

Actually they plan to use a lot of the funds for real assets, like that btc atm machine and such. It's not all just for trading.

And I understand perfectly what you are saying. Except they won't have 75 btc + 250K coins. They will have 75 btc + 250K burned coins. We are assuming the valuation will increase at the same percentage of what they just spent ... but that isn't a certainty.

This is the part you're thinking about incorrectly.

Let's say there is only 2 BTC per coin and only 2 coins in scenario 1 and only 3 BTC per coin and only 1 coin in scenario 2. In both scenarios, assume buy-in price was 2 BTC per coin.

Scenario one.

100% total gain

They double their 4 BTC to 8 BTC. Each coin gets paid 4 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 4 -2 = 2 per coin.

Scenario two.

100% total gain

They double their 3 BTC to 6 BTC. Each coin gets paid 6 BTC. Starting price was 2 BTC. Profit is 6 -2 = 4 per coin.

Get it?

poornamelessme

hero member

Activity: 1204

Merit: 509

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 03:25:36 AM

If they had an actual company with a proof of concept that actually worked, then you'd be making some sense, but they're going to use most of the funds to trade. Well, right now, they have a fat 100% for 2 days work lying right in front of them.

It doesn't matter if they have less money. They'll have more money per coin, understand? With 500,000 coins, they now have 100 BTC or 2 BTC per 5,000 coins. If they buy up half the coins for 25 BTC, they will then have 75 BTC and 250,000 coins or 3 BTC per 5,000 coins.

Do you get what I'm saying now?

Actually they plan to use a lot of the funds for real assets, like that btc atm machine and such. It's not all just for trading.

And I understand perfectly what you are saying. Except they won't have 75 btc + 250K coins. They will have 75 btc + 250K burned coins. We are assuming the valuation will increase at the same percentage of what they just spent ... but that isn't a certainty.

pseudonymdude

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: poornamelessme on August 13, 2014, 03:17:28 AM

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 03:11:32 AM

The valuation would go up if the investments they make generate money which would be paid at a greater rate per coin than if they did not burn any coins.

Yeah, but just remember whatever they pay for the buy wall means less money to use for investments. So it's probably no real net gain there. There would be a greater rate per coin, but less being invested to begin with, so less profit in the pools.

If it gets bad enough, then a buy wall can be used as sort of a last resort. I'd like them to try to stabilize the price using other means first though.

If they had an actual company with a proof of concept that actually worked, then you'd be making some sense, but they're going to use most of the funds to trade. Well, right now, they have a fat 100% for 2 days work lying right in front of them.

It doesn't matter if they have less money. They'll have more money per coin, understand? With 500,000 coins, they now have 100 BTC or 2 BTC per 10,000 coins. If they buy up half the coins for 25 BTC, they will then have 75 BTC and 250,000 coins or 3 BTC per 10,000 coins.

Do you get what I'm saying now?

edit: Had to change the numbers a bit. I had it right initially, but then did something weird with the math while trying to simplify it so it was easier to visualize.

poornamelessme

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Activity: 1204

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Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 03:11:32 AM

The valuation would go up if the investments they make generate money which would be paid at a greater rate per coin than if they did not burn any coins.

Yeah, but just remember whatever they pay for the buy wall means less money to use for investments. So it's probably no real net gain there. There would be a greater rate per coin, but less being invested to begin with, so less profit in the pools.

If it gets bad enough, then a buy wall can be used as sort of a last resort. I'd like them to try to stabilize the price using other means first though.

macorcina

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Activity: 466

Merit: 250

Quote from: poornamelessme on August 13, 2014, 03:06:51 AM

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 03:01:22 AM

Right. They have to burn them. That way each coin receives a greater percentage of the dividend. So it's good for bagholders, which is the whole point of the coin.

Yep, but we can't assume burning them will increase the valuation enough to make up for the 25 btc (or however much they'd spend) buying the coins in the first place. Simply reducing the number of coins should increase the valuation... but who knows how that could work out.

XC coin is reduced 50% of coins in pow phase. its work. value go up.

pseudonymdude

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Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: poornamelessme on August 13, 2014, 03:06:51 AM

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 03:01:22 AM

Right. They have to burn them. That way each coin receives a greater percentage of the dividend. So it's good for bagholders, which is the whole point of the coin.

Yep, but we can't assume burning them will increase the valuation enough to make up for the 25 btc (or however much they'd spend) buying the coins in the first place. Simply reducing the number of coins should increase the valuation... but who knows how that could work out.

Well, considering they have the money to just leave up a buywall (or replenish the buywall whenever it gets dimished) that would buy up 100% of the coins in circulation, it would be an actual solid floor that could not be broken through no matter what, assuming the devs don't run. The valuation would go up if the investments they make generate money which would be paid at a greater rate per coin than if they did not burn any coins.

Also, the even greater point is the confidence it would create. Right now, people are selling at .00005 because they think it will go to zero.

poornamelessme

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Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 03:01:22 AM

Right. They have to burn them. That way each coin receives a greater percentage of the dividend. So it's good for bagholders, which is the whole point of the coin.

Yep, but we can't assume burning them will increase the valuation enough to make up for the 25 btc (or however much they'd spend) buying the coins in the first place. Simply reducing the number of coins should increase the valuation... but who knows how that could work out.

pseudonymdude

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Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: poornamelessme on August 13, 2014, 02:56:55 AM

Quote from: pseudonymdude on August 13, 2014, 02:50:58 AM

Ehh... this is not a smart way to look at it in my opinion. I do think syscoin is a good gamble and have money invested in it, but it's just that, a gamble. Buying up as much of QBK as possible at 50% price is a guaranteed 100% return on that money as it was already sold at .0002.

If they don't take a guaranteed 100% profit, it's bad management imo.

It only makes sense for them to do that if they then turn around and burn the coins. Otherwise, people would complain of the devs basically sitting on a giant stash of coin, similar to a premine. You don't want any single group holding such a large percentage of the overall coins.

So yeah, it could increase valuation... maybe. Or maybe not.

If they simply treated it like a regular investor would, perhaps it'd be a good bet. But then people would complain they are sitting on 250K coins (or however many they buy).

Right. They have to burn them. That way each coin receives a greater percentage of the dividend. So it's good for bagholders, which is the whole point of the coin.

Topic: [ANN] QIBUCK COIN - X13 - POS/POBH - 1st Proof of Baghold and asset backed. - page 55. (Read 152969 times)