Swisscex can't deposits and withdraw now, they need upgrade the wallet to 10.3.2, because 10.2.1 is very very slow 
Rozu，You are right ，Thanks
Rozu，You are right ，Thanks
Topic: [ANN] RazorLove Cryptocurrency Services - DBL, CENT, & FOO/BAR Updates - page 6. (Read 153386 times)
April 21, 2014, 09:32:47 AM
i just open a support ticket to swisscex to ask what is the problem.
April 21, 2014, 08:48:34 AM
Swisscex can't deposits and withdraw now, they need upgrade the wallet to 10.3.2, because 10.2.1 is very very slow
Rozu，You are right ，Thanks
Rozu，You are right ，Thanks
April 21, 2014, 01:37:50 AM
tevayo, did the swisscex report "Error:invalid address" or the 10.3.2 client report this?
can you show your address which you say "invalid address"?
10.3.2 is compatible with 10.2.1, i has tested transfer coin from 10.3.2 to 10.2.1, and from 10.2.1 to 10.3.2, they are both OK.
but i has not tried at swisscex, i will try it today.
can you show your address which you say "invalid address"?
10.3.2 is compatible with 10.2.1, i has tested transfer coin from 10.3.2 to 10.2.1, and from 10.2.1 to 10.3.2, they are both OK.
but i has not tried at swisscex, i will try it today.
Hello, I try to transfer swisscex CENTs from my wallet and not let me.
Error: invalid address.
Using version 10.3.2, I downloaded all blockchain and direction is what creates the pennies-qt
grettings
Error: invalid address.
Using version 10.3.2, I downloaded all blockchain and direction is what creates the pennies-qt
grettings
April 20, 2014, 12:12:23 PM
Hello, I try to transfer swisscex CENTs from my wallet and not let me.
Error: invalid address.
Using version 10.3.2, I downloaded all blockchain and direction is what creates the pennies-qt
grettings
Error: invalid address.
Using version 10.3.2, I downloaded all blockchain and direction is what creates the pennies-qt
grettings
April 20, 2014, 11:44:38 AM
ciklop1974, thanks for your report, i will review the sourcecode and fix it ASAP if this is a bug.
After restart wallet i can see thisOnly orphans on version 10.3.2
April 20, 2014, 09:45:03 AM
ciklop1974, thanks for your report, i will review the sourcecode and fix it ASAP if this is a bug.
Only orphans on version 10.3.2
April 20, 2014, 09:27:38 AM
Only orphans on version 10.3.2
April 20, 2014, 06:27:22 AM
ciklop1974, the fewer compounds means 10.3.2 has fewer connections than 10.2.1.
10.3.2 will disconnect zombie connections periodically, it will be shown fewer connections than before but will help to accelerate syncing.
definition of zombie connection:
sync zero block in one minute.
fewer connections do not affect your usage of pennies.
if it affects user psychologically, i will optimize it later.
This is 10.2.1 version
This is 10.3.2 version
Why so few compounds?
10.3.2 will disconnect zombie connections periodically, it will be shown fewer connections than before but will help to accelerate syncing.
definition of zombie connection:
sync zero block in one minute.
fewer connections do not affect your usage of pennies.
if it affects user psychologically, i will optimize it later.
This is 10.2.1 version This is 10.3.2 versionWhy so few compounds?
I get it. Thank you.
April 20, 2014, 05:40:44 AM
any DBL normal nodes?
i`am stucked on 187499 blocks =\
i`am stucked on 187499 blocks =\ April 20, 2014, 05:23:12 AM
ciklop1974, the fewer compounds means 10.3.2 has fewer connections than 10.2.1.
10.3.2 will disconnect zombie connections periodically, it will be shown fewer connections than before but will help to accelerate syncing.
definition of zombie connection:
sync zero block in one minute.
fewer connections do not affect your usage of pennies.
if it affects user psychologically, i will optimize it later.
This is 10.2.1 version
This is 10.3.2 version
Why so few compounds?
10.3.2 will disconnect zombie connections periodically, it will be shown fewer connections than before but will help to accelerate syncing.
definition of zombie connection:
sync zero block in one minute.
fewer connections do not affect your usage of pennies.
if it affects user psychologically, i will optimize it later.
This is 10.2.1 version This is 10.3.2 versionWhy so few compounds?
April 20, 2014, 04:40:12 AM
This is 10.2.1 version This is 10.3.2 versionWhy so few compounds?
April 19, 2014, 12:32:27 PM
Release 10.3.2
1. fix a random crash issue
2. disconnect zombie connection when syncing, it will accelerate syncing
Source
https://github.com/Rozu/Pennies/releases/tag/10.3.2-src
Windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.2
Upgrade from 10.2.1
1. Backup wallet.dat
2. remove the folder of %APPDATA%/Pennies
3. startup piggybank.exe
4. after synced, copy the wallet.dat to the folder of Pennies, restart piggybank.exe
Upgrade from 10.3.1
just start the new client
Important Note
10.3.1/2 is compatible with 10.2.1, it will not generate fork. if you don't want to re-sync, you can still use 10.2.1
Advantage of 10.3.2
1.startup much faster than 10.2.1
2.support light-wallet, will release light-wallet soon
3.optimize syncing, if you can't finish syncing with 10.2.1, you can try 10.3.2
4.10.2.1 will cost 100% CPU time when stake-minig, if you're using linux, when you type:./pennies getinfo, you will find the reponse will last several minutes, 10.3.2 fix it.
5. if your startup will crash when using 10.2.1, you can use 10.3.2
6.Upgrade openn-ssl to 1.0.1g, prevent attack from hacker using the bug of Heartbleed
1. fix a random crash issue
2. disconnect zombie connection when syncing, it will accelerate syncing
Source
https://github.com/Rozu/Pennies/releases/tag/10.3.2-src
Windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.2
Upgrade from 10.2.1
1. Backup wallet.dat
2. remove the folder of %APPDATA%/Pennies
3. startup piggybank.exe
4. after synced, copy the wallet.dat to the folder of Pennies, restart piggybank.exe
Upgrade from 10.3.1
just start the new client
Important Note
10.3.1/2 is compatible with 10.2.1, it will not generate fork. if you don't want to re-sync, you can still use 10.2.1
Advantage of 10.3.2
1.startup much faster than 10.2.1
2.support light-wallet, will release light-wallet soon
3.optimize syncing, if you can't finish syncing with 10.2.1, you can try 10.3.2
4.10.2.1 will cost 100% CPU time when stake-minig, if you're using linux, when you type:./pennies getinfo, you will find the reponse will last several minutes, 10.3.2 fix it.
5. if your startup will crash when using 10.2.1, you can use 10.3.2
6.Upgrade openn-ssl to 1.0.1g, prevent attack from hacker using the bug of Heartbleed
DAMN! GOOD STUFF MAN!
April 19, 2014, 12:10:02 PM
Rozu,You are a hero 
10.3.2 very good and fast...
10.3.2 very good and fast...Release 10.3.2
1. fix a random crash issue
2. disconnect zombie connection when syncing, it will accelerate syncing
Source
https://github.com/Rozu/Pennies/releases/tag/10.3.2-src
Windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.2
Upgrade from 10.2.1
1. Backup wallet.dat
2. remove the folder of %APPDATA%/Pennies
3. startup piggybank.exe
4. after synced, copy the wallet.dat to the folder of Pennies, restart piggybank.exe
Upgrade from 10.3.1
just start the new client
Important Note
10.3.1/2 is compatible with 10.2.1, it will not generate fork. if you don't want to re-sync, you can still use 10.2.1
Advantage of 10.3.2
1.startup much faster than 10.2.1
2.support light-wallet, will release light-wallet soon
3.optimize syncing, if you can't finish syncing with 10.2.1, you can try 10.3.2
4.10.2.1 will cost 100% CPU time when stake-minig, if you're using linux, when you type:./pennies getinfo, you will find the reponse will last several minutes, 10.3.2 fix it.
5. if your startup will crash when using 10.2.1, you can use 10.3.2
6.Upgrade openn-ssl to 1.0.1g, prevent attack from hacker using the bug of Heartbleed
1. fix a random crash issue
2. disconnect zombie connection when syncing, it will accelerate syncing
Source
https://github.com/Rozu/Pennies/releases/tag/10.3.2-src
Windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.2
Upgrade from 10.2.1
1. Backup wallet.dat
2. remove the folder of %APPDATA%/Pennies
3. startup piggybank.exe
4. after synced, copy the wallet.dat to the folder of Pennies, restart piggybank.exe
Upgrade from 10.3.1
just start the new client
Important Note
10.3.1/2 is compatible with 10.2.1, it will not generate fork. if you don't want to re-sync, you can still use 10.2.1
Advantage of 10.3.2
1.startup much faster than 10.2.1
2.support light-wallet, will release light-wallet soon
3.optimize syncing, if you can't finish syncing with 10.2.1, you can try 10.3.2
4.10.2.1 will cost 100% CPU time when stake-minig, if you're using linux, when you type:./pennies getinfo, you will find the reponse will last several minutes, 10.3.2 fix it.
5. if your startup will crash when using 10.2.1, you can use 10.3.2
6.Upgrade openn-ssl to 1.0.1g, prevent attack from hacker using the bug of Heartbleed
April 19, 2014, 10:12:14 AM
Release 10.3.2
1. fix a random crash issue
2. disconnect zombie connection when syncing, it will accelerate syncing
Source
https://github.com/Rozu/Pennies/releases/tag/10.3.2-src
Windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.2
Upgrade from 10.2.1
1. Backup wallet.dat
2. remove the folder of %APPDATA%/Pennies
3. startup piggybank.exe
4. after synced, copy the wallet.dat to the folder of Pennies, restart piggybank.exe
Upgrade from 10.3.1
just start the new client
Important Note
10.3.1/2 is compatible with 10.2.1, it will not generate fork. if you don't want to re-sync, you can still use 10.2.1
Advantage of 10.3.2
1.startup much faster than 10.2.1
2.support light-wallet, will release light-wallet soon
3.optimize syncing, if you can't finish syncing with 10.2.1, you can try 10.3.2
4.10.2.1 will cost 100% CPU time when stake-minig, if you're using linux, when you type:./pennies getinfo, you will find the reponse will last several minutes, 10.3.2 fix it.
5. if your startup will crash when using 10.2.1, you can use 10.3.2
6.Upgrade openn-ssl to 1.0.1g, prevent attack from hacker using the bug of Heartbleed
1. fix a random crash issue
2. disconnect zombie connection when syncing, it will accelerate syncing
Source
https://github.com/Rozu/Pennies/releases/tag/10.3.2-src
Windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.2
Upgrade from 10.2.1
1. Backup wallet.dat
2. remove the folder of %APPDATA%/Pennies
3. startup piggybank.exe
4. after synced, copy the wallet.dat to the folder of Pennies, restart piggybank.exe
Upgrade from 10.3.1
just start the new client
Important Note
10.3.1/2 is compatible with 10.2.1, it will not generate fork. if you don't want to re-sync, you can still use 10.2.1
Advantage of 10.3.2
1.startup much faster than 10.2.1
2.support light-wallet, will release light-wallet soon
3.optimize syncing, if you can't finish syncing with 10.2.1, you can try 10.3.2
4.10.2.1 will cost 100% CPU time when stake-minig, if you're using linux, when you type:./pennies getinfo, you will find the reponse will last several minutes, 10.3.2 fix it.
5. if your startup will crash when using 10.2.1, you can use 10.3.2
6.Upgrade openn-ssl to 1.0.1g, prevent attack from hacker using the bug of Heartbleed
April 17, 2014, 10:29:42 AM
bluestang, i will fix it after the Pennies is stable and easy to sync.
i'm sure i has fixed slow startup issue and let it support light-wallet, but i'm not sure i has fixed the sync issue.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6258472
this thread tell me 10.3.1 has random crash issue, i will review the code and contact the reporter ciklop1974 to fix it ASAP.
sync issue is hard to test because the network has memory, i can be easy to sync once means i will always be easy to sync, and even if i have tested many times to be success, it does not mean that other people can be easy to sync. some people may be trapped in bad node. so i need more test result from different person and different place.
the logic of 10.3.1 is trying to select the best bandwidth node to sync.
Petr1fied is not The Catman! People need to quit trying to associate them as the same. See here...
Petr1fied != TheCatman
I've already stated what I think needs to be done in my earlier post but issuing a divisible number of coins to each claimant in a rebooted version of Pennies would probably be a logistical nightmare and I'm not sure I want to put myself through so much hassle.
@Rozu,
I applaud you wanting to take this task on...here's to hoping for some good to come out of it.
Getting rid/fixing of the 1 billion max transaction issue would go a long way as well.
i'm sure i has fixed slow startup issue and let it support light-wallet, but i'm not sure i has fixed the sync issue.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6258472
this thread tell me 10.3.1 has random crash issue, i will review the code and contact the reporter ciklop1974 to fix it ASAP.
sync issue is hard to test because the network has memory, i can be easy to sync once means i will always be easy to sync, and even if i have tested many times to be success, it does not mean that other people can be easy to sync. some people may be trapped in bad node. so i need more test result from different person and different place.
the logic of 10.3.1 is trying to select the best bandwidth node to sync.
The Catman aka Petr1fied
Petr1fied is not The Catman! People need to quit trying to associate them as the same. See here...
you don't think Petr1fied=Catman?
Let is vote and ask Catman to give control of Cent coin to user Petr1fied.
He is very responsible and he is online every day. If he will want to take care about this coin lets vote on that.
He is very responsible and he is online every day. If he will want to take care about this coin lets vote on that.
Petr1fied != TheCatman
I've already stated what I think needs to be done in my earlier post but issuing a divisible number of coins to each claimant in a rebooted version of Pennies would probably be a logistical nightmare and I'm not sure I want to put myself through so much hassle.
@Rozu,
I applaud you wanting to take this task on...here's to hoping for some good to come out of it.
Getting rid/fixing of the 1 billion max transaction issue would go a long way as well.
April 17, 2014, 10:14:29 AM
thanks, mycoinpool
Rozu, great job，Thank you very much....
thanks, reverse02
if there are some bug or some advice on new Pennies, please contact me, i will reply ASAP.
if there are some bug or some advice on new Pennies, please contact me, i will reply ASAP.
in my opinion that sounds like a very good idea ..
the old CENT is definitely dead
The Catman aka Petr1fied did thankfully some necessary things, but he has for sure no interest to be a dev for this coin .. thats what he clearly said
Rozu, you give me a lot of hope for a promising future of CENT ... just awesome!!
the old CENT is definitely dead
The Catman aka Petr1fied did thankfully some necessary things, but he has for sure no interest to be a dev for this coin .. thats what he clearly said
Rozu, you give me a lot of hope for a promising future of CENT ... just awesome!!
hi PoolMinor,
thanks for your reply, i don't care whether i or who take over the Pennies project, i have browsed this forum for two moths, i know no one want to take it over, The_CatMan has disappeared for a long time, so i do it.
Taking over Pennies project must be a tough task, i saw The_CatMan do many things, got no reward and got some abuse.
I believe some cryptocurrecy will be better than BTC or LTC, i want to do some experiment on Pennies, if Pennies success, it's a great honor for me.
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
thanks for your reply, i don't care whether i or who take over the Pennies project, i have browsed this forum for two moths, i know no one want to take it over, The_CatMan has disappeared for a long time, so i do it.
Taking over Pennies project must be a tough task, i saw The_CatMan do many things, got no reward and got some abuse.
I believe some cryptocurrecy will be better than BTC or LTC, i want to do some experiment on Pennies, if Pennies success, it's a great honor for me.
CENT has released 10.3.1, see the detail #2124
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
anynews for cent
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
April 17, 2014, 09:01:59 AM
The Catman aka Petr1fied
Petr1fied is not The Catman! People need to quit trying to associate them as the same. See here...
you don't think Petr1fied=Catman?
Let is vote and ask Catman to give control of Cent coin to user Petr1fied.
He is very responsible and he is online every day. If he will want to take care about this coin lets vote on that.
He is very responsible and he is online every day. If he will want to take care about this coin lets vote on that.
Petr1fied != TheCatman
I've already stated what I think needs to be done in my earlier post but issuing a divisible number of coins to each claimant in a rebooted version of Pennies would probably be a logistical nightmare and I'm not sure I want to put myself through so much hassle.
@Rozu,
I applaud you wanting to take this task on...here's to hoping for some good to come out of it.
Getting rid/fixing of the 1 billion max transaction issue would go a long way as well.
April 17, 2014, 08:58:22 AM
Rozu, great job，Thank you very much....
thanks, reverse02
if there are some bug or some advice on new Pennies, please contact me, i will reply ASAP.
if there are some bug or some advice on new Pennies, please contact me, i will reply ASAP.
in my opinion that sounds like a very good idea ..
the old CENT is definitely dead
The Catman aka Petr1fied did thankfully some necessary things, but he has for sure no interest to be a dev for this coin .. thats what he clearly said
Rozu, you give me a lot of hope for a promising future of CENT ... just awesome!!
the old CENT is definitely dead
The Catman aka Petr1fied did thankfully some necessary things, but he has for sure no interest to be a dev for this coin .. thats what he clearly said
Rozu, you give me a lot of hope for a promising future of CENT ... just awesome!!
hi PoolMinor,
thanks for your reply, i don't care whether i or who take over the Pennies project, i have browsed this forum for two moths, i know no one want to take it over, The_CatMan has disappeared for a long time, so i do it.
Taking over Pennies project must be a tough task, i saw The_CatMan do many things, got no reward and got some abuse.
I believe some cryptocurrecy will be better than BTC or LTC, i want to do some experiment on Pennies, if Pennies success, it's a great honor for me.
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
thanks for your reply, i don't care whether i or who take over the Pennies project, i have browsed this forum for two moths, i know no one want to take it over, The_CatMan has disappeared for a long time, so i do it.
Taking over Pennies project must be a tough task, i saw The_CatMan do many things, got no reward and got some abuse.
I believe some cryptocurrecy will be better than BTC or LTC, i want to do some experiment on Pennies, if Pennies success, it's a great honor for me.
CENT has released 10.3.1, see the detail #2124
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
anynews for cent
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
April 17, 2014, 04:15:22 AM
thanks, reverse02
if there are some bug or some advice on new Pennies, please contact me, i will reply ASAP.
if there are some bug or some advice on new Pennies, please contact me, i will reply ASAP.
in my opinion that sounds like a very good idea ..
the old CENT is definitely dead
The Catman aka Petr1fied did thankfully some necessary things, but he has for sure no interest to be a dev for this coin .. thats what he clearly said
Rozu, you give me a lot of hope for a promising future of CENT ... just awesome!!
the old CENT is definitely dead
The Catman aka Petr1fied did thankfully some necessary things, but he has for sure no interest to be a dev for this coin .. thats what he clearly said
Rozu, you give me a lot of hope for a promising future of CENT ... just awesome!!
hi PoolMinor,
thanks for your reply, i don't care whether i or who take over the Pennies project, i have browsed this forum for two moths, i know no one want to take it over, The_CatMan has disappeared for a long time, so i do it.
Taking over Pennies project must be a tough task, i saw The_CatMan do many things, got no reward and got some abuse.
I believe some cryptocurrecy will be better than BTC or LTC, i want to do some experiment on Pennies, if Pennies success, it's a great honor for me.
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
thanks for your reply, i don't care whether i or who take over the Pennies project, i have browsed this forum for two moths, i know no one want to take it over, The_CatMan has disappeared for a long time, so i do it.
Taking over Pennies project must be a tough task, i saw The_CatMan do many things, got no reward and got some abuse.
I believe some cryptocurrecy will be better than BTC or LTC, i want to do some experiment on Pennies, if Pennies success, it's a great honor for me.
CENT has released 10.3.1, see the detail #2124
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
anynews for cent
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
April 17, 2014, 04:08:17 AM
Emerov,
thanks for your reply, i just send a private msg to Petr1fied, ask whether he want to take it over, i will help to do some coding work.
Petr1fid is a good guy, i saw he has done many things on Pennies.
i do not contact the group you say because i did not see the group has done some work, i can not judge whether it's a cheater or realy want to help Pennies.
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
I'm in complete agreement with the comments above. We need some verification both of your credentials and the code before we can even think about switching to the new client. If the whole community is not fully trusting and willing to move in this direction, we'll just be forking it yet again, which is the problem we've had all along.
It is absolutely necessary that first we get either The Catman or Petr1fied to verify the quality of the changes made, as they are really the only authorities around to instill confidence in the changes. Furthermore, The Catman should officially hand over the reins to make this seem more legitimate, though if he is unavailable for contact, then this might need to be discussed more in depth.
Also, just a couple of questions:
1.) Are you associated with the group over at http://user.cent-help.com/? If not, and they roll out their code changes tomorrow, we'll have an interesting time sorting through all the code
2.) Do you have the time and ability to actually manage the code if given that responsibility?
Sorry for the skepticism; I really appreciate your time and effort in support of Pennies, and I think you have some great ideas. Just trying to make sure those changes won't run us into the ground any further
thanks for your reply, i just send a private msg to Petr1fied, ask whether he want to take it over, i will help to do some coding work.
Petr1fid is a good guy, i saw he has done many things on Pennies.
i do not contact the group you say because i did not see the group has done some work, i can not judge whether it's a cheater or realy want to help Pennies.
CENT has released 10.3.1, see the detail #2124
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
Pennies = CENT
windows-qt
https://github.com/Rozu/pennies_release/releases/tag/10.3.1
it's much faster startup and sync than before, and will support Android wallet later.
anynews for cent
I applaud your need to bring this coin back from the dead, but until I see proper notification of the coin changing to your hands I will treat your changes as hostile.
I'm in complete agreement with the comments above. We need some verification both of your credentials and the code before we can even think about switching to the new client. If the whole community is not fully trusting and willing to move in this direction, we'll just be forking it yet again, which is the problem we've had all along.
It is absolutely necessary that first we get either The Catman or Petr1fied to verify the quality of the changes made, as they are really the only authorities around to instill confidence in the changes. Furthermore, The Catman should officially hand over the reins to make this seem more legitimate, though if he is unavailable for contact, then this might need to be discussed more in depth.
Also, just a couple of questions:
1.) Are you associated with the group over at http://user.cent-help.com/? If not, and they roll out their code changes tomorrow, we'll have an interesting time sorting through all the code
2.) Do you have the time and ability to actually manage the code if given that responsibility?
Sorry for the skepticism; I really appreciate your time and effort in support of Pennies, and I think you have some great ideas. Just trying to make sure those changes won't run us into the ground any further
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