[Ann] Safecoin maidsafecoin - page 23.

liondani

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Inch by Inch,Play by Play

Quote from: maidsafe on April 22, 2014, 10:13:38 AM

dirvine’s reply:

I quite quickly decided that we would use all of the MSC loan fund we had been given for the sale and buy all the remaining MSAFE. Rather than manually doing a few steps in the background we would simply transfer the MSAFE to BTC holder on confirmation of any deposit. This removed a few steps.

lol, nobody said that it exist a cap of buying maidsafe coins with mastercoin!!! Only that the sale event will run until ten percent of all safecoins (429,496,729) are sold or 30 days have passed...
All mastercoin buyers that could not use MSCs even when only BTCs was accepted (of course because 429,496,729 coins was not reached) are SCAMMED ! "I quite quickly decided" to change the rules and steal money from MSC buyers to give them somewhere else !!!!

http://www.safecoin.io/
"It is also possible to buy safecoin and buyers anywhere in the world will be given the opportunity to do so during an up and coming crowd-sale. The sale event will run until ten percent of all safecoins (429,496,729) are sold or 30 days have passed, which ever happens first. safecoin will be made available to buyers through a proxy token, MaidSafeCoin. Once the MaidSafe network goes live, the MaidSafeCoins will be redeemable for the network’s native safecoins at a 1-to-1 ratio."

toast

sr. member

Activity: 1582

Merit: 253

Quote from: baddw

"Representatively fair"? The implied exchange rate between MSC and BTC was very clear. If you can't do the math, it's your own fault.

I feel bad for MSC buyers who got stuck with them. They are the ones who got screwed here.

Fortunately, I did not partake in this little charade, but now I understand why the AngelShares/BitShares fundraiser/IPO was so convoluted, with a set amount sold per day in an "auction" format. It may have been hard to understand at the time, but now I see the wisdom of it.

+1... warned and ignored.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: maidsafe on April 22, 2014, 10:13:38 AM

dirvine’s reply:

This is what we have done, it reduces the back office steps, ensures BTC backers are looked after and not squeezed out. MSC backers got in at almost equal footing as BTC (almost 50% / 50%) and we all win. The BTC goes ahead and the MSC people got in fast and made their purchase.

What makes you think it is fair to change the rules after the fact because the fundraising wasn't in accordance to your expectations?

Did you ever set a hard cap on the percentage of MSC vs BTC allowed to invest in the 10% stake beforehand or can we all safely assume that you modified the fundraising rules after the fact out of a sense of justice to those ignorant BTC investors who couldn't do the math and didn't realize they should swap their BTC for MSC beforehand?

svk31

member

Activity: 73

Merit: 10

Here's the link to the thread Irvine started with the post quoted by maidsafe for those wondering where it is:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/maidsafe-development/vkr5mty4k4s

bitwhizz

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

David isn;t seriously impying that all of this is 'OK' becouse everyone gets a 40 % bonus,
when the funds will probably all be collected in less than a week
I am not investing in this if the people who run this lets this kind of bullshit fly
Yep i think i will give this one a miss

baddw

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: Zooey on April 22, 2014, 09:41:33 AM

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 09:32:55 AM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 22, 2014, 08:51:12 AM

I don't see how they can't break the deal to be honest. I would appreciate them sticking to their terms, (and might argue loudly for it) but how to iron things out so that people won't feel tricked is going to be difficult.

Not difficult. They announced the rules. Those rules were available for all to see and understand. They must stick to those terms. They cannot change the terms in a material way which cause severe losses to those who relied upon the stated rules. I too will argue quite loudly.

Now everyone can understand the function of regulation. Regulation would put in place the conditions which prevent those raising funds from changing the rules midstream - causing losses for many.

David can't just unilaterally declare the previously promised .2 invalid. This is complete nonsense. He will learn a very hard lesson if he doesn't (within 24 hours) withdraw that change to the scheme which was widely advertised and promoted all last week.

So this is an argument which wants a group of people who have equally invested to be given less - to be disadvantaged, for what...? Why would you want that? I can't see there being anything fucking 'wrong' that a decent person would object to if;
-nobody gets any less than promised
-btc investor reward is raised to be representatively fair
How could that not be the right way to go forward?

"Representatively fair"? The implied exchange rate between MSC and BTC was very clear. If you can't do the math, it's your own fault.

I feel bad for MSC buyers who got stuck with them. They are the ones who got screwed here.

Fortunately, I did not partake in this little charade, but now I understand why the AngelShares/BitShares fundraiser/IPO was so convoluted, with a set amount sold per day in an "auction" format. It may have been hard to understand at the time, but now I see the wisdom of it.

ewibit

legendary

Activity: 2955

Merit: 1049

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 10:03:29 AM

They will be forced to accept MSC at .2 for 30 days in agreement with their own rules. I am pretty sure of that.

If not, I suspect they will find themselves in a very difficult position indeed.

My suggestion, go buy 'cheap' MSC now. It will be worth .2 in a few days after Irvine realizes he can't just fix the rules as the deal is being executed. The rules were set.

...

maidsafe

jr. member

Activity: 49

Merit: 1

svk31

member

Activity: 73

Merit: 10

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 22, 2014, 09:57:11 AM

My apologies, i let my frustration with users with low posts making quotes that can very dramatically alter the outcome of projects get ahead of me. I should have asked. Sorry!

Apology accepted

I realize it's a pretty frustrating afternoon for lots of people, I'm just glad all I'm losing at the moment is my productivity at work Wink

bitwhizz

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 10:03:29 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on April 22, 2014, 09:58:38 AM

Quote

I doubt there would be any drastic changes to the crowdfunding rules , because that would literally mean the death of the project before it even gets started

Agreed, but unless there is further clarification there seems to be good evidence that drastic changes did indeed happen without notice causing losses for individuals who trusted the original fundraising framework. This could effectively kill maidsafe and raise some questions about mastercoins involvement.

They will be forced to accept MSC at .2 for 30 days in agreement with their own rules. I am pretty sure of that.

If not, I suspect they will find themselves in a very difficult position indeed.

My suggestion, go buy 'cheap' MSC now. It will be worth .2 in a few days after Irvine realizes he can't just fix the rules as the deal is being executed. The rules were set.

+1

RawDog

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1026

Quote from: inBitweTrust on April 22, 2014, 09:58:38 AM

Quote

I doubt there would be any drastic changes to the crowdfunding rules , because that would literally mean the death of the project before it even gets started

Agreed, but unless there is further clarification there seems to be good evidence that drastic changes did indeed happen without notice causing losses for individuals who trusted the original fundraising framework. This could effectively kill maidsafe and raise some questions about mastercoins involvement.

They will be forced to accept MSC at .2 for 30 days in agreement with their own rules. I am pretty sure of that.

If not, I suspect they will find themselves in a very difficult position indeed.

My suggestion, go buy 'cheap' MSC now. It will be worth .2 in a few days after Irvine realizes he can't just fix the rules as the deal is being executed. The rules were set.

RawDog

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1026

Quote from: mtbitcoin on April 22, 2014, 09:52:11 AM

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 09:45:47 AM

Quote from: Zooey on April 22, 2014, 09:41:33 AM

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 09:32:55 AM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 22, 2014, 08:51:12 AM

I don't see how they can't break the deal to be honest. I would appreciate them sticking to their terms, (and might argue loudly for it) but how to iron things out so that people won't feel tricked is going to be difficult.

Not difficult. They announced the rules. Those rules were available for all to see and understand. They must stick to those terms. They cannot change the terms in a material way which cause severe losses to those who relied upon the stated rules. I too will argue quite loudly.

Now everyone can understand the function of regulation. Regulation would put in place the conditions which prevent those raising funds from changing the rules midstream - causing losses for many.

David can't just unilaterally declare the previously promised .2 invalid. This is complete nonsense. He will learn a very hard lesson if he doesn't (within 24 hours) withdraw that change to the scheme which was widely advertised and promoted all last week.

So this is an argument which wants a group of people who have equally invested to be given less - to be disadvantaged, for what...? Why would you want that? I can't see there being anything fucking 'wrong' that a decent person would object to if;
-nobody gets any less than promised
-btc investor reward is raised to be representatively fair
How could that not be the right way to go forward?

The rules were clearly stated in good time. We didn't set those rules. Whether they were 'fair' or 'unfair' according to you or others doesn't matter. These were the rules set forth by MaidSafe. These were the stated terms of the deal.

Many people relied upon those stated rules. That reliance upon the rules was proximate cause of the damaged suffered by those who relied upon the rules.

You can see where this is going.

What of it Irvine? You want to comment about this?

I doubt there would be any drastic changes to the crowdfunding rules , because that would literally mean the death of the project before it even gets started

The rules said: 17000 MaidSafe for 1BTC and 3400 MaidSafe for 1MSC; i.e. .2BTC/MSC. This is why the MSC price rose and nearly reached .2 (as anyone would expect) in the days preceeding the sale. Then, it was announced via google groups that they would not accept MSC and would not exchange MSC for 3400 MaidSafe in a clear contravenance of the rules stated.

Those who prepared themselves by relying upon the rules and buying MSC to participate in accordance with the stated scheme - were left holding a bag of tokens having severely diminished value - up to about 50%.

Once you set the rules - you can't change them. A deal is a deal. Well, unless you are Scottish I suppose. Then you can just move the goal post about as it suits you.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote

I doubt there would be any drastic changes to the crowdfunding rules , because that would literally mean the death of the project before it even gets started

Agreed, but unless there is further clarification there seems to be good evidence that drastic changes did indeed happen without notice causing losses for individuals who trusted the original fundraising framework. This could effectively kill maidsafe and raise some questions about mastercoins involvement.

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: svk31 on April 22, 2014, 09:52:05 AM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 22, 2014, 09:41:49 AM

Quote from: svk31 on April 22, 2014, 09:01:28 AM

Quote from: ewibit on April 22, 2014, 08:53:40 AM

Quote from: ervalvola on April 22, 2014, 08:01:19 AM

I click "send" (near my MSC balance), then I verify the address, fulfill Amount, Fee, and To, and click "Prepare". It says: "Not enough bitcoin funds on addresses" which is false (I should have enough bitcoins to cover the fee, right?)

here the same...
Angry

Another guy said something about needing 0,015 BTC in his account in order to send MSC, I don't really know anything about how it works though.

Either way the MSC address is closed or in the process of being closed for donations, so even if you manage to send your transaction you'll just get it returned.

Quote

nick.lambert
3:37 PM (21 minutes ago)

The crowd sale is now closed to MSC, still open for BTC @ 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nick Lambert
www.maidsafe.net
Twitter: @maidsafe

Might be time to try cash out of MSC, but I'd wait for David Irvine's official response that he posted about first..

Nice fake quote newbie. Tits or GTFO.

It's not a fake quote, but it's not from here, it's from the Google forum thread linked earlier in this discussion. Maybe I should have specified that, but you on the other hand could've just asked me where the quote was from instead of being rude.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maidsafe-development/9QTj0d2pGPo/YsftjmZs8EMJ

My apologies, i let my frustration with users with low posts making quotes that can very dramatically alter the outcome of projects get ahead of me. I should have asked. Sorry!

mtbitcoin

legendary

Activity: 876

Merit: 1000

Etherscan.io

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 09:45:47 AM

Quote from: Zooey on April 22, 2014, 09:41:33 AM

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 09:32:55 AM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 22, 2014, 08:51:12 AM

I don't see how they can't break the deal to be honest. I would appreciate them sticking to their terms, (and might argue loudly for it) but how to iron things out so that people won't feel tricked is going to be difficult.

Not difficult. They announced the rules. Those rules were available for all to see and understand. They must stick to those terms. They cannot change the terms in a material way which cause severe losses to those who relied upon the stated rules. I too will argue quite loudly.

Now everyone can understand the function of regulation. Regulation would put in place the conditions which prevent those raising funds from changing the rules midstream - causing losses for many.

David can't just unilaterally declare the previously promised .2 invalid. This is complete nonsense. He will learn a very hard lesson if he doesn't (within 24 hours) withdraw that change to the scheme which was widely advertised and promoted all last week.

So this is an argument which wants a group of people who have equally invested to be given less - to be disadvantaged, for what...? Why would you want that? I can't see there being anything fucking 'wrong' that a decent person would object to if;
-nobody gets any less than promised
-btc investor reward is raised to be representatively fair
How could that not be the right way to go forward?

The rules were clearly stated in good time. We didn't set those rules. Whether they were 'fair' or 'unfair' according to you or others doesn't matter. These were the rules set forth by MaidSafe. These were the stated terms of the deal.

Many people relied upon those stated rules. That reliance upon the rules was proximate cause of the damaged suffered by those who relied upon the rules.

You can see where this is going.

What of it Irvine? You want to comment about this?

I doubt there would be any drastic changes to the crowdfunding rules , because that would literally mean the death of the project before it even gets started

crimealone

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 251

market manipulation！scam！

svk31

member

Activity: 73

Merit: 10

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 22, 2014, 09:41:49 AM

Quote from: svk31 on April 22, 2014, 09:01:28 AM

Quote from: ewibit on April 22, 2014, 08:53:40 AM

Quote from: ervalvola on April 22, 2014, 08:01:19 AM

I click "send" (near my MSC balance), then I verify the address, fulfill Amount, Fee, and To, and click "Prepare". It says: "Not enough bitcoin funds on addresses" which is false (I should have enough bitcoins to cover the fee, right?)

here the same...
Angry

Another guy said something about needing 0,015 BTC in his account in order to send MSC, I don't really know anything about how it works though.

Either way the MSC address is closed or in the process of being closed for donations, so even if you manage to send your transaction you'll just get it returned.

Quote

nick.lambert
3:37 PM (21 minutes ago)

The crowd sale is now closed to MSC, still open for BTC @ 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nick Lambert
www.maidsafe.net
Twitter: @maidsafe

Might be time to try cash out of MSC, but I'd wait for David Irvine's official response that he posted about first..

Nice fake quote newbie. Tits or GTFO.

It's not a fake quote, but it's not from here, it's from the Google forum thread linked earlier in this discussion. Maybe I should have specified that, but you on the other hand could've just asked me where the quote was from instead of being rude.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maidsafe-development/9QTj0d2pGPo/YsftjmZs8EMJ

RawDog

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1026

Quote from: Zooey on April 22, 2014, 09:41:33 AM

Quote from: RawDog on April 22, 2014, 09:32:55 AM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on April 22, 2014, 08:51:12 AM

I don't see how they can't break the deal to be honest. I would appreciate them sticking to their terms, (and might argue loudly for it) but how to iron things out so that people won't feel tricked is going to be difficult.

Not difficult. They announced the rules. Those rules were available for all to see and understand. They must stick to those terms. They cannot change the terms in a material way which cause severe losses to those who relied upon the stated rules. I too will argue quite loudly.

Now everyone can understand the function of regulation. Regulation would put in place the conditions which prevent those raising funds from changing the rules midstream - causing losses for many.

David can't just unilaterally declare the previously promised .2 invalid. This is complete nonsense. He will learn a very hard lesson if he doesn't (within 24 hours) withdraw that change to the scheme which was widely advertised and promoted all last week.

So this is an argument which wants a group of people who have equally invested to be given less - to be disadvantaged, for what...? Why would you want that? I can't see there being anything fucking 'wrong' that a decent person would object to if;
-nobody gets any less than promised
-btc investor reward is raised to be representatively fair
How could that not be the right way to go forward?

The rules were clearly stated in good time. We didn't set those rules. Whether they were 'fair' or 'unfair' according to you or others doesn't matter. These were the rules set forth by MaidSafe. These were the stated terms of the deal.

Many people relied upon those stated rules. That reliance upon the rules was proximate cause of the damaged suffered by those who relied upon the rules.

You can see where this is going.

What of it Irvine? You want to comment about this?

Labteck

sr. member

Activity: 311

Merit: 250

3850 btc and growing

mtbitcoin

legendary

Activity: 876

Merit: 1000

Etherscan.io

Quote from: svk31 on April 22, 2014, 09:01:28 AM

Quote from: ewibit on April 22, 2014, 08:53:40 AM

Quote from: ervalvola on April 22, 2014, 08:01:19 AM

I click "send" (near my MSC balance), then I verify the address, fulfill Amount, Fee, and To, and click "Prepare". It says: "Not enough bitcoin funds on addresses" which is false (I should have enough bitcoins to cover the fee, right?)

here the same...
Angry

Another guy said something about needing 0,015 BTC in his account in order to send MSC, I don't really know anything about how it works though.

Either way the MSC address is closed or in the process of being closed for donations, so even if you manage to send your transaction you'll just get it returned.

Quote

nick.lambert
3:37 PM (21 minutes ago)

The crowd sale is now closed to MSC, still open for BTC @ 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nick Lambert
www.maidsafe.net
Twitter: @maidsafe

Might be time to try cash out of MSC, but I'd wait for David Irvine's official response that he posted about first..

MSC deposits looks closed as stated on google groups. The last conversion was a few hours ago.

The BTC deposits are still open though

Topic: [Ann] Safecoin maidsafecoin - page 23. (Read 76678 times)