Topic: [ANN] [SFR] SaffronCoin | Latest Version - 1.4.2/2.6.2 | Mandatory Wallet Update - page 180. (Read 437835 times)

I'm 35, so not everyone here are teens lol. Cold realism is good, I see no issues with that Hugh. I know that you are a financially minded individual and from what I can discern, very knowledgeable. The sell on news, was going to happen, if you chose to exercise action on this as you have stated to lock in profits, that's your prerogative. If you sold as much saffron as stated then the bulk of the selling pressure was you divesting your holding based on a quick scan of the Bittrex chart, its rather easy to predict such a drops in price when you contributed so much to it. I don't believe it was premeditated on your part but that as soon as you noticed any indices pointing to downward trend you jumped in. Thats ok, this is crypto. Had you held off and rather bled off your holdings would the price have stabilized, kept increasing or suffered less of a precipitous drop? Guess we will never know. But what's done is done, you did what you felt was the right move for you.

Price stability is somewhat illusiory in crypto given the speculative nature, the lack of measurable fundamentals and their inherent "smallcap" nature. Even bitcoin lacks stability comparable to those of fiats. People will hype and pump and there isn't a whole lot that can be done, many options have been proposed and attempted by other cryptos but at this time, other than say actively FUDDing a coin as you mention, it could work but seriously would damage the community and longterm future prospects of said coin. Saffroncoin has accumulated alot of goodwill, and very little negativity, so actively manipulating prices is not something that we should strive for with short sighted strategies that could do more harm than good.

As far as the WP specifically, official coin docs shouldnt try and predict pricing. There is nothing to supports them unlike business that have revenues etc. It's pure speculation. As I stated on my rather long winded msg, the wp was a solid document but not optimal for the cryptophere. People tend to look at these papers and only spot the red flags.. these being anything that's more or less been associated with previous scamcoins. If you wanted the price guidance, it should have been at the end as a footnote, not the first thing out of the gates, but you are a price/profit minded individual so I understand why it would take prominence over the actual roadmaps established later in the doc. i would have structured the doc along the lines of the 6 cornerstones of the coin. That being said, some of the wording I would have altered such as to approach the subject of new financial influx for future coin support etc as more of a community driven objective via donations like so many other coins have succesfully accomplished rather than using the premine terminology (to be fair triggering a second bulk premine is unheard of, and potentially not even feasible code wise, but thats neither here nor there). I believe that there was mention of a NSF and VISA/Mastercard as well. Let's be frank, the NSF for naut coin is an anomaly because the guy running it is a public figure and as such people see it differently (I hold naut FYI). For saffron to have that in its docs is pointless, it involved central control and ALOT of trust in those operating such a fund, but conflicts with ideals of what saffron seeks to be (democratic, distributed etc). The cards shouldnt be called Visa etc.. as saffron is not in talk with visa or mastercard etc. I understand what you meant by it (preloaded, or loadeable debit cards ala blackcoin.. which are pretty neat) it just comes of as a purecoin fiasco when the mention of Visa or mastercard is uttered.

I believe you are a valuable member of the community as we need people with different view points. I enjoy debate and am not afraid to speak my mind in a respectable and professional manner. Different ideas make for stronger end products because all options have been considered and we dont ignore those that could become missed opportunities. Lets work together on this, as we build up a Dev support group. No more individuals acting unilaterally (myself included), and lets build something that will defy expectations. Are you with me Hugh? That includes you too Vip & Adatrader

   I'm am easy to reach, I 'll check on here when I can, I'm also on twitter, or you guys can reach me via good ol' email [email protected]

 

As am I. Not sure why he continues to reiterate that the recent uptrend would have an inevitable crash... no shit?

The entity who was driving the price up did not suddenly decide to obliterate the minimal liquidity in buy support, why not let the mania buy through the sells? Instead, you let go of a large % of your holdings prior to releasing a document that described the current market cap as overvalued. Immediately causing panic sales by weak hands and early supporters.

Why not discuss the price projections with the developers/community members prior to expressing your opinion? Hmm I can guess why, it didn't concern you as you were not heavily invested at that point.  


In addition, there are numerous examples of much larger market manipulations, how about XC for example:

490x in 3 weeks

Hugh

First of all stop talking that bull shit. You don't know who I am and if I am talking respectfully it does not mean that I can't talk bull shit like you. You don't even know how to talk with people. I have much knowledge and experience of financial world you are crapping about and I also hold large amout of saffron coins but I did not sell on the rise or fall. I knew that price will fall but did not make it worse by selling my coins. I also did not try to force my opinion in the whitepaper and provide 4 times less price target.

Okay let me tell you a story : you had about 700k coins and you were very eager to present a whitepaper for future developments. In that whitepaper you provided 1.5 months price price target 4 times lower than the current market price and spoke sth about pre mine(misunderstood by many). But wait before the release of whitepaper you sold around 550k of your coins at high price, which is like 5% of current coin circulation. Then you again started buying at Lower prices because you know the potential of the coin. Now see the price is around the target provided by you.

What do we think about this ? Now stop calling others noob or "pie in the sky kids".

After all this damage and your bullshit, I am still being respectfull and asking you to co operate but no you are the self righteous here and you think you know everything.

The damage is done., we can now move forward From here by supporting Devs as a community. You are also part of community, nothing more than anybody else and nothing less.

" as in crypto market price can go up 4000% and still rise more." RUBBISH. If you believe that then you are stupid. 4000% in 4-5days = crash in every single coin. Some recover. Most dont. I think Saffron will.

This is not a Hippy commune, Cuba or North Korea. Adapt or die  Simple. I think you are one of the 'pie in the sky kids' wanting to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. You will NOT get that from me . I also will not FUD but you will continue to get honesty and 'reality' from me not wishful thinking. It that thinking of a 'free lunch' that make 4000% rise in 4days normal in the Crypto world that is the problem. It is NOT normal and should never be encouraged. It should actually be actively discouraged.



.

Why is there no blake mining info or pool ?

I am also in favour of setting up a community fund account.

I am against any kind of hard fork to add in a premine.  Can the dev setup a donation address on the OP so some kind of fund can be setup for giveaways and ongoing development.  I think this community is big enough for this to turn into a sizeable sum over time and with the price rising it will be worthwhile.

You accept it or not but that was a mistake on your part. You can appoint yourself in any role you want but when major decisions will be made, Community's + devs decision will be final. You are also a community member and always welcome to give your ideas and opinions but please don't try to force them. Its reality that price guidance has no place in crypto world yet and providing a four times lower price target than market price was a serious mistake as in crypto market price can go up 4000% and still rise more.  The orthodox methods can't be used yet in this market. I hope in future you instead of being self righteous also listen to other people here. Please don't call anybody noob here as all of us have knowledge what we are doing here. Most of the community supporters are not in favor of what you think but still you are trying to force your opinion. This will not work here.

You are always welcome as a valued community supporter.

Regards Vipin

CoinViking,

I just want to add that I dont disagree with the majority of what you have said. We disagree on the price guidance issue.

Do you also disagree with my proposal re a publicly voted on additional premine ?

Please read what I PM'd to the Dev re the poison pill of 'premine=scam kind of thinking' and the fate of many coins that dont have premines.

Here is what I proposed in the original whitepaper

======================================
Expanded Premine/Public Coin Float

We will make submission to the community for an extended premine or public coin float of 250,000-500,000 Saffroncoins to assist future real world/online projects. This additional premine would have to approved and voted on by the community. Any use of this new premine would also have to be authorised and approved by the head Developer and any  2 committee heads.   An example of authorised use would be to reward a real world chain for accepting Saffroncoin eg. (redacted due to confidentiality). 'Real world retailer stores and shoppers will never refuse free money'. A rising Saffroncoin price creates a positive feedback loop. The funds would also be used in funding bounties for new feature development. This additional premine would be placed at a public address in the Saffroncoin Reserve Fund [ SCRF]and be matched by the community for a total of 500,000 - 1,000,000 Saffroncoin. Extremely Important in the above scenario is that the majority [>75%] of this new reserve will go towards real world promotion and NOT people who are already familiar with crypto currencies. This will eliminate any real or imagined risk of dumping on exchanges. Paper wallets may even be used and all oversight is to be the responsibility of a new Saffroncoin Audit committee. Target Date to start Jul 15 2014

Classic noob thinking 

We can fool ourselves all we want writing sentences to make our own reality. ALTcoins that go up 4000% in 4-5 days - CRASH simple as that.

Since I seem to be the only one[publicly, I sure there are others] with hard cold BTC and cash from my investment; I will continue in my role as the 'unofficial no bullshit' monitor. I will not FUD but since I know the majority here are 'pie in the sky' teens and twenty yr olds. I have to self -appoint myself in this role.
 
I continue to accumulate maybe up my old level of 700k or up to 10% of coins in issue. I will decide depending on how I see things going in this thread.

Coinviking, I dont agree that 'price guidance has no place in the the whitepaper. As a matter of fact when some here were hyping the 2000,3000,4000% appreciation I only mentioned it once because my 'price guidance' was infinitely more conservative 1000sat by the end of July. Having made over 200btc in the crypto markets and predicting the 50-70% crash via PM, this was my attempt at 'capping the price'. Crypto's encourage pump and dump we should have actually been revolutionary and FUD's[wrong word - play down is better] Saffron's price as soon as it was over 2000sat. I know some will think that would be crazy but Crypto's are a new world and we have to use unorthodox methods to achieve price stability. No matter the Press Release or Whitepapers, coins that go up 4000% in 4-5days always crash period full stop. If we are not careful it will happen again. Remember its not the Whales that drive up the price. They simply sell into the 'Mania' and buy during the 'Panic'.

You may not have been the only cause, but putting out a paper that basically tells people that you think the coin is incredibly overpriced sure doesn't help. What was the point of having market cap/price predictions in there anyway? Anyone with half a brain knows you can't predict shit like that, especially in the crypto world. Stick to the facts, not some BS about what you think the price should be.

Nicely said Coin-Viking. I agree with you. We must support the Devs as the people behind saffron coin are the best in the market. They are active and have knowledge of crypto coding and engineering.

Regards  Vipin

Hello everybody, for those that have been following Saffroncoin on here since the start, you should recognise my username. My real name is Nicolas (@coinviking on twitter) and I’ve been a avid supporter from day one when I saw the enormous potential of this coin. A diamond in the rough so to speak. After several email exchanges with the dev I became convinced that this is a coin that could be supported, developed and eventually grow to become something quite special.
 
Coins get created every day, everyone knows this and many will simply chase the latest flashcoin for the hope of profits. And I was no different, hopping from one coin to the next, moving my rigs almost everyday to the latest launch, but I got tired of doing so, I sought instead to invest in the developers behind the coin. In Saffroncoin, I found amazing devs that are open, transparent and always willing to listen to their community. Devs that seek to build and continuously improve their coin and have been working tirelessly doing so. I supported them by updating the coin’s logo and website, and have helped provide input that have become some of the many features SFR now has.
 
As it stands now, I am probably one of the largest holders of saffroncoin with several hundred thousand coins (I mined from the start when scrypt diff was next to nothing, at this time I have yet to start buying them on Bittrex, though that may change in the coming days), and to be clear, ALL my coins are sitting in my wallet at home and not (nor have they ever been) on any exchange. I realise people always end up focusing on the “price” and by now we know that coins with low marketcaps will fluctuate and do so sometimes much more than we would like. We know that regardless of any news, some will sell no matter what, after having pushed the coin higher. That is the reality of crypto, there will always be those that pump coins with short term gains as their only objective. No coin is immune to this, such is the reality of a speculative market.
 
The devs believe in empowering the community and allowing its voice to be heard, and as such we have an important role as I do think this community is motivated and wants the best for the coin. That being said, this community’s exuberance has to be channeled into a singular a cohesive vision in line with what the original intent was when the devs first created the coin. Certainly this vision can and will  evolve in an organic fashion over time as new technologies surface and new ideas are developed, this is after all a new coin just undergoing it first real growth pattern and as such an important time for establishing some parameters for the community moving forward.

Investors don't invest in a community they invest in the devs, their vision and their ability to execute said vision. As a result we have a responsibility to protect the devs to a certain extent so that he may focus on what they do best (one hint.. code). I’ll be honest, and this is my opinion, the white paper published today would have been great for a traditional business (investors prospectus / quarterly shareholder guidance docs) but for the purposes of the crypto-sphere, many of the traditional strategies employed in the creation of such documents for publicly traded companies etc can be somewhat negatively perceived by those in crypto. This happens do to the fact that businesses are publicly accessible (for the most part) with transparency etc and existing within a regulated system of check and balances. Basically, a precedent of implicit trust/accountability exists for these entities and as such guidances etc can be given as they are generating revenue etc to substantiate their claims etc. Cryptos on the other hand have no such requirements or systems thus when making price projections for example (something common when offering guidance for typical companies to investors) it can come off as “scammy” to a crypto community that was built from the ground up to be a trustless system (blame the Byzantine general). Anyways, whats done is done, regrettably it did much more harm than good introducing many crypto buzz words and trying to be too many things at once. Did it impact the price? It may have had an impact, but the people that were going to sell on the news, were going to do so regardless (this is speculation on my part, I have no corroborating evidence). Personally, I should have asked to get a draft to review it before it was published and could have suggested alterations, so I apologize to the community, I dropped the ball on that. The devs are brilliant and really nice guys, and are willing to bend over backward to grant the wishes of those that own saffroncoins. They also do rely on the expertise of the members of the community so please note that I am not pointing fingers, I honestly believe that the document was created with the best of intentions and I applaud the initiative taken by the individual, ultimately though, it should have been peer-reviewed by others prior to its dissemination to the public in order to ensure that the coin obtain the best possible exposure.
 
The existing WP will be reviewed and modified; price guidance will be removed, as it has no place in such a document, nor should fixed price targets/guidances ever be the resp of official saffron documents to post. Speculation is best served within the message boards. I don’t care at this time where the price is even though I have seen for myself the equivalent of dozens of BTC in value evaporate with the price decrease from its high. Short term fluctuations happen, med/long term is where my focus is and things are looking very good as nothing has changed in my view that we have fantastic devs can will keep adding to an already great coin and burgeoning “saffron ecosystem”.
 
Crypto is an odd animal, we create decentralized systems and yet for their ultimate success, centralized structures (foundations/committees etc) must arise in order to remove the noise and allow for the best ideas and ultimately decisions optimised for the coins success to percolate and be integrated into the coin’s framework.
 
Successful businesses are built by leveraging strong leadership which instill long term confidence and coins are no different in this respect. As such, if you will have me, I will take on a more active role in the community moving forward as there needs to be more robust checks and balances as well as guidance to help peer review new ideas, propositions, pr material etc. I don’t seek to "control" the coin but I will do what I can to steer it on its optimal course.   I encourage other within the community to step forward and be heard so that we may form saffroncoin’s official “dev support group”.
 
Now is the time to galvanize as a community and instill a structure that supports the devs in their quest to create an ever greater crypto.  

Hugh

I am not confused. The coin had 60-70 BTC 24 volume and suddenly around 20 BTC sell order (550k * .000035 on avg), which you said you did, what do you expect? Of course it will initiate panic sell.  Btw if the finance knowledge given in any college was effective in alt market , it would have never increased 4000%.  In alt market a small FUD can do the damage, did you not see the damage done to Supercoin by busoni? So please stop talking like you are the only knowledgeable person here. And about Whitepaper, is there any rule that it is not created by community? Is anything special you included in that which we can't suggest ? I don't think so.

Devs are pretty clear about their goals and they are updating with the help of community. Devs one request please don't listen to anybody and keep posting your tweets. I and many others like me like to read the updates.

If Devs are able to deliver what is written in whitepaper, this coin will be surely a success with or without you.

One last thing I request all community supporters that let's again start discussing about what to do in future,instead of moaning over what has happened. Let's focus on delivering the things promised before time.

Regards Vipin

Hahahaha, this is really funny. People like you buy shitcoins and when their Dev run away after dumping, guys like you try to recover them. Devs are the backbone of any coin and Dev with technical knowledge, who believes in evolving with market and future plans is a huge plus point. This coin will be huge and you are welcome here always to troll.

I love trolls myself they say one thing and ill do something totally different or just play along with the trolling or troll be trolled.

oooh, dev is feisty... i like that