[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 448.

Collider

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Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 01:46:34 PM

They are in the business of maximizing profit, what makes you think any saving would be passed to the consumer?

They are still one of the best companies out there, in terms of product aswell as customer service.

The problem is that spondoolies is still very small compared to bitmain or Bitfury, which is hopefully going to change.

I am sure nobody wants a market with only two big players, one of them not selling to consumers.

TKeenan

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Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 01:46:34 PM

Quote from: Collider on August 11, 2014, 12:31:21 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 11:53:28 AM

supposedly their chips are made in China , and we are also talking about BitMain who are pumping out S3s at a crazy rate right now
already up to batch 6 or 7 since it was launched 30 days ago

Chips are fabbed all over the world (and there is no big profit in fabbing chips for the fab).

While Bitmain pumps out a lot of Ants, they are only ~0.5TH each. Bitfury is deploying 3.5TH units in their DCs, at 0.775W/GH.

Spondoolies produces 4.5TH units with a very small space requirement, and 5.5TH units hopefully soon.

The best thing you can do right now is to order with spondoolies and enable them to increase their batch sizes and therefore lower prices.

They are in the business of maximizing profit, what makes you think any saving would be passed to the consumer?

Same thing that made me believe they'd meet the specification. I am an idiot.

wpgdeez

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Quote from: Collider on August 11, 2014, 12:31:21 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 11:53:28 AM

supposedly their chips are made in China , and we are also talking about BitMain who are pumping out S3s at a crazy rate right now
already up to batch 6 or 7 since it was launched 30 days ago

Chips are fabbed all over the world (and there is no big profit in fabbing chips for the fab).

While Bitmain pumps out a lot of Ants, they are only ~0.5TH each. Bitfury is deploying 3.5TH units in their DCs, at 0.775W/GH.

Spondoolies produces 4.5TH units with a very small space requirement, and 5.5TH units hopefully soon.

The best thing you can do right now is to order with spondoolies and enable them to increase their batch sizes and therefore lower prices.

They are in the business of maximizing profit, what makes you think any saving would be passed to the consumer?

dropt

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Quote from: tempestb on August 11, 2014, 01:39:50 PM

The margins are just too tight for them to run all these miners and pay themselves salaries to buy hookers and blow. There may be some master plan to devour all of bitcoin mining by spending now and earning later, but I doubt they'll be able to keep up with it. They are just increasing the difficulty on themselves while the Bitcoin price is languishing.

I get a bit giddy thinking about the next halving. That's going to suck for the corporate guys.

tempestb

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Their electricity costs aren't that big of a deal. The expense is LABOR. The people in charge are likely drawing six figure salaries. They have engineers making chips, and who knows how many people in these data centers doing installing, fixing, wiring, updating, etc. People say it's turn-key but anyone that runs miners knows these things are anything but set and forget. When you're at the scale they are, they have people likely working around the clock to investigate update and repair these things.

That's the overhead that will ultimately bankrupt them unless the Bitcoin price jumps up. If it falls, it'll be that much faster. Of course, they make some cash from CEX.IO (They own that right?) and hardware sales, but I think they also have investors and vc funding, and so they have to also pay out a percentage of profits to those people and to pay back whatever credit they've run on.

The margins are just too tight for them to run all these miners and pay themselves salaries to buy hookers and blow. There may be some master plan to devour all of bitcoin mining by spending now and earning later, but I doubt they'll be able to keep up with it. They are just increasing the difficulty on themselves while the Bitcoin price is languishing.

tarmi

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Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity?

eastern europe - ex USSR, I guess.

2112

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Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity?

It isn't electricity cost that differentiates them. They are amongst the few that understand that Bitcoin mining doesn't require data centers, it is more like industrial/agricultural drying facilities. They save capital by not using esoteric cooling and precision power supplies.

Most of the competition still can't get out of their "DC" mental/verbal box they put themselves in. They still put their equipment in 19" racks and derate their power circuits to 80% like if they were to be used long term.

Collider

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Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 11:53:28 AM

supposedly their chips are made in China , and we are also talking about BitMain who are pumping out S3s at a crazy rate right now
already up to batch 6 or 7 since it was launched 30 days ago

Chips are fabbed all over the world (and there is no big profit in fabbing chips for the fab).

While Bitmain pumps out a lot of Ants, they are only ~0.5TH each. Bitfury is deploying 3.5TH units in their DCs, at 0.775W/GH.

Spondoolies produces 4.5TH units with a very small space requirement, and 5.5TH units hopefully soon.

The best thing you can do right now is to order with spondoolies and enable them to increase their batch sizes and therefore lower prices.

Marvell1

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Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 12:23:54 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

Any insight into why ? I don't see any other hardware out here on the horizon better than what SP-TECH has right now even with the slow corner sp30s at 4.5 TH, the only reason to postpone hardware purchases i can see are :

1) you are already invested in New Antminers or have existing KNC hardware you need to ROI on first and are waiting for the KNC compensation package
2) you anticipate huge increase in difficulty that make any hardware purchase after September a waste of $$
3) you are expecting some new hardware right around the corner to the tune of 10 or more TH per unit that makes SP-30's quickly obsolete.

thanks in advance

1. yes I am (antminers, which is a totally different type of machine, as you know), but it is not the reason. I want to use hosting for SP-30, but hosting is either expensive or still building.
2. I have no idea, but I already have one Sp-30 on order, so seeing how it would work out might be beneficial. Nobody wanted to sell me their GB Sad

3. it is possible, but unlikely, and even if there will be one, it would be quite expensive or with unreliable delivery (KnC)

Ahh thanks I am pretty much in the same boat, the only difference is i am in the process of unloading my GPU farm and will have about 5-6k worth of BTC
from that and would probably look to buy either a bunch of S3's or an additionally discounted s30 based on the proposed compensation.

And I agree with your last point. Right now I think the only vendors that are actually delivering products worth considering seem to be SP-TECH and Bitmain.

Biodom

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Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 11:51:00 AM

Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:31:06 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 11:25:29 AM

Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:05:19 AM

Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

So the dilemma compensation wise so far :

1) to order the current 4.5 TH sp 30s at a reduced rate in Sept for your compensation (15% off?)
2)receive cash or btc compensation for your current unit(s) since we paid 4500-5000 and current price is 3900 or so which averages to 15% off say $800
3)wait for the details on compensation for October batches (I would assume maybe 15% -20% off?)

its a tough call another 4.5TH Sept unit at around $3100 is a good deal, but a 5.5 TH unit at the same price even though its a month later is a better deal right ?

what do you all think.

It's only an ok deal if they meet their specs.

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity? This only works if they are getting electricity at a rate less than the rest of us, where that rate is the same or greater percentage than the efficiency difference of SP30 v. Bitfury. Can they really have such an advantage in free juice?

This sucks. Why didn't we predict this? Hindsight is 20-20, we should have imagined that a low end semiconductor Chinese factory with 200 people could easily set up to beat 15 Swedes or 15 Israelis no matter how clever they were. Looking back, I don't know why nobody predicted this end to the mining race.

I don't think its a surprise the Chinese are know for flooding other markets with cheap plentiful hardware so I saw this coming , the thing that threw most of us for a loop is that when china was banning BTC you would think that would affect bitfury and other Chinese manufacturers like bitmain right ? but no they just pump out more hardware than ever.

I still can't see how they can keep pumping out 20PH each month though with their inferior hardware, at some point they will have to improve their DC hardware and what will they do with all those existing 55Nm chips ?

my existing question stands though,

i postponed for now, but your situation might be different.

Any insight into why ? I don't see any other hardware out here on the horizon better than what SP-TECH has right now even with the slow corner sp30s at 4.5 TH, the only reason to postpone hardware purchases i can see are :

1) you are already invested in New Antminers or have existing KNC hardware you need to ROI on first and are waiting for the KNC compensation package
2) you anticipate huge increase in difficulty that make any hardware purchase after September a waste of $$
3) you are expecting some new hardware right around the corner to the tune of 10 or more TH per unit that makes SP-30's quickly obsolete.

thanks in advance

1. yes I am (antminers, which is a totally different type of machine, as you know), but it is not the reason. I want to use hosting for SP-30, but hosting is either expensive or still building.
2. I have no idea, but I already have one Sp-30 on order, so seeing how it would work out might be beneficial. Nobody wanted to sell me their GB Sad

3. it is possible, but unlikely, and even if there will be one, it would be quite expensive or with unreliable delivery (KnC)

Marvell1

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Quote from: Collider on August 11, 2014, 11:47:18 AM

How did this turn into a "the Chinese" thread?

Bitfury is neither Chinese nor a Chinese company.

supposedly their chips are made in China , and we are also talking about BitMain who are pumping out S3s at a crazy rate right now
already up to batch 6 or 7 since it was launched 30 days ago

wh00per

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Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity? This only works if they are getting electricity at a rate less than the rest of us, where that rate is the same or greater percentage than the efficiency difference of SP30 v. Bitfury. Can they really have such an advantage in free juice?

This sucks. Why didn't we predict this? Hindsight is 20-20, we should have imagined that a low end semiconductor Chinese factory with 200 people could easily set up to beat 15 Swedes or 15 Israelis no matter how clever they were. Looking back, I don't know why nobody predicted this end to the mining race.

Looking back, IBM built the PC ... now all of them are made in China, Jobs, made Apple .. all of them are made in China .. same applies for clothes, TVs, everything you can think of. The only stuff "built" locally, you practically find at "farmers' market" or is sponsored by the government (cutting import taxes, giving subsidies, taxing the crap out of the competition etc).

Why should crypto-mining be different? The only way to stay ahead of the wave is to train your people and build intellectual property. Let the manufacturers compete between them in the east. The most successful guys invent ways to collect payments from the western world while most of the services / manufactured goods are provided by the eastern part, where they're cheaper, or still subsidized by their governments.

Marvell1

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Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:31:06 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 11:25:29 AM

Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:05:19 AM

Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

So the dilemma compensation wise so far :

1) to order the current 4.5 TH sp 30s at a reduced rate in Sept for your compensation (15% off?)
2)receive cash or btc compensation for your current unit(s) since we paid 4500-5000 and current price is 3900 or so which averages to 15% off say $800
3)wait for the details on compensation for October batches (I would assume maybe 15% -20% off?)

its a tough call another 4.5TH Sept unit at around $3100 is a good deal, but a 5.5 TH unit at the same price even though its a month later is a better deal right ?

what do you all think.

It's only an ok deal if they meet their specs.

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity? This only works if they are getting electricity at a rate less than the rest of us, where that rate is the same or greater percentage than the efficiency difference of SP30 v. Bitfury. Can they really have such an advantage in free juice?

This sucks. Why didn't we predict this? Hindsight is 20-20, we should have imagined that a low end semiconductor Chinese factory with 200 people could easily set up to beat 15 Swedes or 15 Israelis no matter how clever they were. Looking back, I don't know why nobody predicted this end to the mining race.

I don't think its a surprise the Chinese are know for flooding other markets with cheap plentiful hardware so I saw this coming , the thing that threw most of us for a loop is that when china was banning BTC you would think that would affect bitfury and other Chinese manufacturers like bitmain right ? but no they just pump out more hardware than ever.

I still can't see how they can keep pumping out 20PH each month though with their inferior hardware, at some point they will have to improve their DC hardware and what will they do with all those existing 55Nm chips ?

my existing question stands though,

i postponed for now, but your situation might be different.

Any insight into why ? I don't see any other hardware out here on the horizon better than what SP-TECH has right now even with the slow corner sp30s at 4.5 TH, the only reason to postpone hardware purchases i can see are :

1) you are already invested in New Antminers or have existing KNC hardware you need to ROI on first and are waiting for the KNC compensation package
2) you anticipate huge increase in difficulty that make any hardware purchase after September a waste of $$
3) you are expecting some new hardware right around the corner to the tune of 10 or more TH per unit that makes SP-30's quickly obsolete.

thanks in advance

Collider

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Activity: 714

Merit: 500

How did this turn into a "the Chinese" thread?

Bitfury is neither Chinese nor a Chinese company.

Biodom

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Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 11:25:29 AM

Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:05:19 AM

Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

So the dilemma compensation wise so far :

1) to order the current 4.5 TH sp 30s at a reduced rate in Sept for your compensation (15% off?)
2)receive cash or btc compensation for your current unit(s) since we paid 4500-5000 and current price is 3900 or so which averages to 15% off say $800
3)wait for the details on compensation for October batches (I would assume maybe 15% -20% off?)

its a tough call another 4.5TH Sept unit at around $3100 is a good deal, but a 5.5 TH unit at the same price even though its a month later is a better deal right ?

what do you all think.

It's only an ok deal if they meet their specs.

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity? This only works if they are getting electricity at a rate less than the rest of us, where that rate is the same or greater percentage than the efficiency difference of SP30 v. Bitfury. Can they really have such an advantage in free juice?

This sucks. Why didn't we predict this? Hindsight is 20-20, we should have imagined that a low end semiconductor Chinese factory with 200 people could easily set up to beat 15 Swedes or 15 Israelis no matter how clever they were. Looking back, I don't know why nobody predicted this end to the mining race.

I don't think its a surprise the Chinese are know for flooding other markets with cheap plentiful hardware so I saw this coming , the thing that threw most of us for a loop is that when china was banning BTC you would think that would affect bitfury and other Chinese manufacturers like bitmain right ? but no they just pump out more hardware than ever.

I still can't see how they can keep pumping out 20PH each month though with their inferior hardware, at some point they will have to improve their DC hardware and what will they do with all those existing 55Nm chips ?

my existing question stands though,

i postponed for now, but your situation might be different.

Marvell1

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Activity: 2408

Merit: 1102

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Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:05:19 AM

Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

So the dilemma compensation wise so far :

1) to order the current 4.5 TH sp 30s at a reduced rate in Sept for your compensation (15% off?)
2)receive cash or btc compensation for your current unit(s) since we paid 4500-5000 and current price is 3900 or so which averages to 15% off say $800
3)wait for the details on compensation for October batches (I would assume maybe 15% -20% off?)

its a tough call another 4.5TH Sept unit at around $3100 is a good deal, but a 5.5 TH unit at the same price even though its a month later is a better deal right ?

what do you all think.

It's only an ok deal if they meet their specs.

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity? This only works if they are getting electricity at a rate less than the rest of us, where that rate is the same or greater percentage than the efficiency difference of SP30 v. Bitfury. Can they really have such an advantage in free juice?

This sucks. Why didn't we predict this? Hindsight is 20-20, we should have imagined that a low end semiconductor Chinese factory with 200 people could easily set up to beat 15 Swedes or 15 Israelis no matter how clever they were. Looking back, I don't know why nobody predicted this end to the mining race.

I don't think its a surprise the Chinese are know for flooding other markets with cheap plentiful hardware so I saw this coming , the thing that threw most of us for a loop is that when china was banning BTC you would think that would affect bitfury and other Chinese manufacturers like bitmain right ? but no they just pump out more hardware than ever.

I still can't see how they can keep pumping out 20PH each month though with their inferior hardware, at some point they will have to improve their DC hardware and what will they do with all those existing 55Nm chips ?

my existing question stands though,

JPage

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Activity: 399

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Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:05:19 AM

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

The GHash 51% attack question was completely stupid and not worth a second thought. However, the same can't be said about Bitfury. If Bitfury did 20 PH / mo for a short time, they could get up to a serious level of the entire network. They are in a totally different position than GHash with regard to control. This could get a little dicey.

Bicknellski

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Quote from: JPage on August 11, 2014, 11:15:43 AM

Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:05:19 AM

Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

So the dilemma compensation wise so far :

1) to order the current 4.5 TH sp 30s at a reduced rate in Sept for your compensation (15% off?)
2)receive cash or btc compensation for your current unit(s) since we paid 4500-5000 and current price is 3900 or so which averages to 15% off say $800
3)wait for the details on compensation for October batches (I would assume maybe 15% -20% off?)

its a tough call another 4.5TH Sept unit at around $3100 is a good deal, but a 5.5 TH unit at the same price even though its a month later is a better deal right ?

what do you all think.

It's only an ok deal if they meet their specs.

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity? This only works if they are getting electricity at a rate less than the rest of us, where that rate is the same or greater percentage than the efficiency of SP30 v. Bitfury. Can they really have such an advantage in free juice?

If the boxes and chips are cheap then the electricity can be a bit more expensive. The other thing is the BULK nature of this would mean very good savings. As pointed out... dirt cheap DC's thrown up fast. Race to the bottom hasn't stopped even though people are now playing with Petahash sized DC's. Who are buying these DCs? Are they betting on BTC going through the roof and using the farm as tax write off so even if it fails they are not too bothered?

JPage

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Activity: 399

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Quote from: Biodom on August 11, 2014, 11:05:19 AM

Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

So the dilemma compensation wise so far :

1) to order the current 4.5 TH sp 30s at a reduced rate in Sept for your compensation (15% off?)
2)receive cash or btc compensation for your current unit(s) since we paid 4500-5000 and current price is 3900 or so which averages to 15% off say $800
3)wait for the details on compensation for October batches (I would assume maybe 15% -20% off?)

its a tough call another 4.5TH Sept unit at around $3100 is a good deal, but a 5.5 TH unit at the same price even though its a month later is a better deal right ?

what do you all think.

It's only an ok deal if they meet their specs.

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

Where does Bitfury get their cheap electricity? This only works if they are getting electricity at a rate less than the rest of us, where that rate is the same or greater percentage than the efficiency difference of SP30 v. Bitfury. Can they really have such an advantage in free juice?

This sucks. Why didn't we predict this? Hindsight is 20-20, we should have imagined that a low end semiconductor Chinese factory with 200 people could easily set up to beat 15 Swedes or 15 Israelis no matter how clever they were. Looking back, I don't know why nobody predicted this end to the mining race.

Biodom

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Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Quote from: wpgdeez on August 11, 2014, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 11, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

So the dilemma compensation wise so far :

1) to order the current 4.5 TH sp 30s at a reduced rate in Sept for your compensation (15% off?)
2)receive cash or btc compensation for your current unit(s) since we paid 4500-5000 and current price is 3900 or so which averages to 15% off say $800
3)wait for the details on compensation for October batches (I would assume maybe 15% -20% off?)

its a tough call another 4.5TH Sept unit at around $3100 is a good deal, but a 5.5 TH unit at the same price even though its a month later is a better deal right ?

what do you all think.

It's only an ok deal if they meet their specs.

or not, if Bitfury will continue bringing 20-30PH to market every two months (the equivalent of 4000-5000 SP-30).

Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 448. (Read 1260350 times)