I believe swarmpath will put together a writeup as to why he thought it was better not to issue the dividend as originally planned.
Looking forward to a professional, clear and transparent write up and next steps.
Topic: [ANN] Swarm Fund 1.0 - [OFFLINE THREAD] - page 18. (Read 139876 times)
Looking forward to a professional, clear and transparent write up and next steps.
Correct. We haven't made any specific promises with respect to our giveback model since, among other things, it is legally problematic. Generally speaking we encourage people to think of the first iteration of Swarm as a crypto-kickstarter with some cool perks of not particularly clear monetary value rather than an investment.
Isn't the whole point of Swarm to solve the problem of unfairness that occurs with the kickstarter model of fundraising?
You might want to rethink this statement..
I think 24 Million swarm should be proportionally distributed to the early backers. Isn't this voted and discussed already in the Vote No. 1 
-The YES or NO vote done few weeks before
-The YES or NO vote done few weeks before
of course also the Swarm Reserve should be destroyed in a proportional ratio.
Quote
The 8% figure is only applicable if they raise 21500 Bitcoins realistically it's going to be a much higher %age depending on how much they raise.
Actually it's the opposite. If we don't hit our targets our percentages will be less. 
I sense another VOTE is coming 
Looks like we sold about 9,587,746 SWARMPRE, so that's how many SWARM will be distributed. The remainder of 14,412,254 will be burned. As for future rounds, there is no immediate plan to do one and we will only consider doing so once we have a prototype platform that has some initial traction and needs more funding to scale.
Ok, but don't forget
How much SWARM will be in limbo for "future rounds of funding" ?
68,000,000
How much SWARM will "Swarm Reserve" be ?
8,000,000
So I guess
9,587,746 SWARM distributed
8,000,000 SWARM in Swarm Reserve
68,000,000 SWARM in limbo ?
or the 68,000,000 will be destroyed too ?
also, you stated that
IIRC, 24,000,000 SWARM will be divided proportionally between the SWARMPRE holders at the end of the fundraise (20th July)
If 4500 SWARMPRE are sold, every SWARMPRE will yield 1 SWARM. Currently (33% raised) 1 SWARMPRE will yield 3 SWARM
Correct. We haven't made any specific promises with respect to our giveback model since, among other things, it is legally problematic. Generally speaking we encourage people to think of the first iteration of Swarm as a crypto-kickstarter with some cool perks of not particularly clear monetary value rather than an investment.
So basically, the SWARM are not divided proportionally, you get 8,000,000 for the reserves (which is proportionally three times what it should have been) and there are 68,000,000 SWARM in limbo (more than 7 times the SWARM that will be distributed while it should have been a bit less than 3 times)
This is confusing to say the least, the rules are everchanging... I would be nice to state what will happen in the future and commit to the plan
In General:
If coins that are on the side (14 mill?) of the "investors" will be destroyed then the same should happen the "other" side in a proportional ratio. (And even then it should be openly discussed as the whole idea about Swarm, in part at least, is sharing, just as the example of the Facebook purchase of Oculus.) No unfair advantage, or disadvantage, should be given to either side.
Basically if the fundraiser didn't raise the planned on amount, then the fundraisers themselves should not get an amount that now dillutes those "investors".
Hope that made sense.
Its about sharing
I believe swarmpath will put together a writeup as to why he thought it was better not to issue the dividend as originally planned.
Sharing the unsold Swarm was part of the crowdfunding right?
You cannot simply burn them now.
You cannot simply burn them now.
I agree this burn needs to be discussed as I believe those coins should be distributed.
Logically:
The 24 million was allotted to be shared proportionally among participants in the crowd sale. I don't see any reason to burn the unsold 14,412,254. Why not distribute them as planned to the benefit of all crowd sale supporters?
Mathematically:
Crowd sale supporters were originally promised 24% (24M out of 100M) of all Swarm coins, regardless of amount raised. If you burn those unsold coins, crowd sale supporters will be devalued down to 11.2% of all Swarm (9,587,746 out of 85,587,746).
Logically:
The 24 million was allotted to be shared proportionally among participants in the crowd sale. I don't see any reason to burn the unsold 14,412,254. Why not distribute them as planned to the benefit of all crowd sale supporters?
Mathematically:
Crowd sale supporters were originally promised 24% (24M out of 100M) of all Swarm coins, regardless of amount raised. If you burn those unsold coins, crowd sale supporters will be devalued down to 11.2% of all Swarm (9,587,746 out of 85,587,746).
Good points. I can see we'll need to have a larger discussion about this.
Keep in mind that as stated in the last adopted proposal any future round would need to be approved by current coin holders, and it's unlikely that any proposal would be adopted that is clearly against the early participants.
Keep in mind that as stated in the last adopted proposal any future round would need to be approved by current coin holders, and it's unlikely that any proposal would be adopted that is clearly against the early participants.
This is confusing to say the least, the rules are everchanging... I would be nice to state what will happen in the future and commit to the plan
Good point, but the asset burning feature didn't exist until recently so we couldn't include it in the plan. With any rapidly evolving technology set it's a bit difficult to have a single plan that we stick to. Among other things that's why we have open discussion and voting mechanisms for anything that isn't clear cut. In this case, it might make sense to lock (or even burn) part of the Swarm reserves as well until the future fundraiser. I'll discuss that with the team, but it makes sense to me to have some kind of locking mechanism.
Ok, glad to hear you're open to discuss it.
Keep in mind that for the early backers (those who takes the biggest risk) being diluted by almost 10 times is a bit scary when compared to be diluted by 4 (what was initially planned)
If you destroy 60.000.000 coins
keep 3,500,000 as reserve
distribute 9,587,746 SWARMPRE
"lock" the rest (approx 26,500,000) for future rounds of funding
you would keep the same proportion
Actually, I don't see a big difference between the reserve and the locked SWARM, since a future round of successful operation would be like selling "owned" stocks of a company. I think if you distribute on 1st of August 24% of the total SWARM, early back will have what they've been promised and you will be beyond reproach
This is confusing to say the least, the rules are everchanging... I would be nice to state what will happen in the future and commit to the plan
Good point, but the asset burning feature didn't exist until recently so we couldn't include it in the plan. With any rapidly evolving technology set it's a bit difficult to have a single plan that we stick to. Among other things that's why we have open discussion and voting mechanisms for anything that isn't clear cut. In this case, it might make sense to lock (or even burn) part of the Swarm reserves as well until the future fundraiser. I'll discuss that with the team, but it makes sense to me to have some kind of locking mechanism.
$642000, impressive fundraiser!
that a lot of money for fund raiser so it looks like lot of people will support this coin.
Looks like we sold about 9,587,746 SWARMPRE, so that's how many SWARM will be distributed. The remainder of 14,412,254 will be burned. As for future rounds, there is no immediate plan to do one and we will only consider doing so once we have a prototype platform that has some initial traction and needs more funding to scale.
Ok, but don't forget
How much SWARM will be in limbo for "future rounds of funding" ?
68,000,000
How much SWARM will "Swarm Reserve" be ?
8,000,000
So I guess
9,587,746 SWARM distributed
8,000,000 SWARM in Swarm Reserve
68,000,000 SWARM in limbo ?
or the 68,000,000 will be destroyed too ?
also, you stated that
IIRC, 24,000,000 SWARM will be divided proportionally between the SWARMPRE holders at the end of the fundraise (20th July)
If 4500 SWARMPRE are sold, every SWARMPRE will yield 1 SWARM. Currently (33% raised) 1 SWARMPRE will yield 3 SWARM
Correct. We haven't made any specific promises with respect to our giveback model since, among other things, it is legally problematic. Generally speaking we encourage people to think of the first iteration of Swarm as a crypto-kickstarter with some cool perks of not particularly clear monetary value rather than an investment.
So basically, the SWARM are not divided proportionally, you get 8,000,000 for the reserves (which is proportionally three times what it should have been) and there are 68,000,000 SWARM in limbo (more than 7 times the SWARM that will be distributed while it should have been a bit less than 3 times)
This is confusing to say the least, the rules are everchanging... I would be nice to state what will happen in the future and commit to the plan
+1 .
You are already after devaluing the investors stakes by giving your company 8 million and investors 9,587,746 instead of 24 million AND 68 million in limbo. If these 68 million go on sale at some time in the future, the early investors stakes value will drop by a factor of 8.
Looks like we sold about 9,587,746 SWARMPRE, so that's how many SWARM will be distributed. The remainder of 14,412,254 will be burned. As for future rounds, there is no immediate plan to do one and we will only consider doing so once we have a prototype platform that has some initial traction and needs more funding to scale.
Ok, but don't forget
How much SWARM will be in limbo for "future rounds of funding" ?
68,000,000
How much SWARM will "Swarm Reserve" be ?
8,000,000
So I guess
9,587,746 SWARM distributed
8,000,000 SWARM in Swarm Reserve
68,000,000 SWARM in limbo ?
or the 68,000,000 will be destroyed too ?
also, you stated that
IIRC, 24,000,000 SWARM will be divided proportionally between the SWARMPRE holders at the end of the fundraise (20th July)
If 4500 SWARMPRE are sold, every SWARMPRE will yield 1 SWARM. Currently (33% raised) 1 SWARMPRE will yield 3 SWARM
Correct. We haven't made any specific promises with respect to our giveback model since, among other things, it is legally problematic. Generally speaking we encourage people to think of the first iteration of Swarm as a crypto-kickstarter with some cool perks of not particularly clear monetary value rather than an investment.
So basically, the SWARM are not divided proportionally, you get 8,000,000 for the reserves (which is proportionally three times what it should have been) and there are 68,000,000 SWARM in limbo (more than 7 times the SWARM that will be distributed while it should have been a bit less than 3 times)
This is confusing to say the least, the rules are everchanging... I would be nice to state what will happen in the future and commit to the plan
We are burning the remaining unsold coins, since this is a a new feature of Counterparty that protects the value of all sold SWARM.
Although this^^^ is music to my ears... please clarify the numbers in regard to how many SWARM will be distributed in this phase as well as how many SWARM will be available in a potential second phase of fundraising.
Looks like we sold about 9,587,746 SWARMPRE, so that's how many SWARM will be distributed. The remainder of 14,412,254 will be burned. As for future rounds, there is no immediate plan to do one and we will only consider doing so once we have a prototype platform that has some initial traction and needs more funding to scale.
There are also numerous options for doing so, including a single timeboxed round like our first one, a single open rolling round which constantly vends out SWARM, or multiple small future rounds. At this moment we don't have a plan, although the various options are discussed frequently in our Skype group (which I invite all of you to join).
Do you have an ETA for
- first platform prototype (already in beta?)
-SWARM distribution to SWARMPRE holders
- first platform prototype (already in beta?)
-SWARM distribution to SWARMPRE holders
Answer please?
We are expecting to launch something next weekend, probably by Monday the 4th something will be visible (but I don't want to make any promises until we have our full roadmap documented, which I expect will be finalized on Monday).
SWARM distribution will go out August 1st. We are burning the remaining unsold coins, since this is a a new feature of Counterparty that protects the value of all sold SWARM.
Also, why move the money before the end of the IPO, what the hell are you doing?
12GZL7shupvmHapCmhw81GDa5GmaTqaZdk is already drained...
and, a trivial question probably (sorry if it's too simple): why there are a lot of unconfirmed transactions exiting from that address?
We largely use Xapo to store the funds because of their insured storage and they automatically do this for security reasons.
That's absolutely not a good way to do an IPO. Now it's quite impossible for you to demonstrate that you haven't bought swarmpre with the funds of stakeholders (I'm not saying that you have done so.)... maybe a proof of possession would be nice.
It's possible for us to demonstrate it since all our outgoing transactions from the Xapo account are logged and annotated and can be shown to someone. Our goal is to have a trusted auditor/advisor who reviews our expenses and shows that there has been nothing outlandish or inappropriate.
$642000, impressive fundraiser!
Do you have an ETA for
- first platform prototype (already in beta?)
-SWARM distribution to SWARMPRE holders
- first platform prototype (already in beta?)
-SWARM distribution to SWARMPRE holders
Answer please?
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