Topic: [ANN] TorBroker - Fund your account in Bitcoin, trade >1000 real stocks and ETFs - page 4. (Read 58427 times)
September 24, 2013, 11:09:07 AM
We've set up www.torbroker.info to promote the service to people not yet familiar with Tor. Let us know what you think!
August 28, 2013, 01:25:31 AM
Dividends are currently added to your balance when you sell the security. Unlike capital gains, some US dividends are taxable no matter the jurisdiction you're trading from, and we will subtract the taxes we pay before paying out to you. Stay tuned for the details about this.
A 15% dividend tax applies to US stocks. ADRs representing companies in other countries may be subject to dividend taxes of their local jurisdictions as well - we recommend you investigate the rate for the jurisdiction of the specific company you want to buy. Dividend taxes are subtracted before we receive the dividends in our accounts. Whatever amount we receive we simply add to your TorBroker USD balance. August 27, 2013, 09:42:14 PM
Problem #1: impossible to prove this is not a scam, besides actual service testing and observing the results.
Yes, we've been thinking hard about how to overcome this. Our first approach was to contact high profile Bitcoin community members and ask them to hold a bond, but unfortunately no one were willing to hold it.We're working to introduce leveraged trading soon. If we offer you X times leverage, then you can essentially trust us with an amount of funds equal to 1/X and still get the same exposure in the markets as now.
I was also curious about dividends.
Dividends are currently added to your balance when you sell the security. Unlike capital gains, some US dividends are taxable no matter the jurisdiction you're trading from, and we will subtract the taxes we pay before paying out to you. Stay tuned for the details about this.Quote
I'm sure it would be trivial to discover the owner by making signature investments on certain scales and identifying the pattern on an exchange.
We are aware of this potential pattern recognition problem and think we have it solved. We can't go into details, but essentially there is a lot you can do to add randomness across multiple accounts.Also, we're primarily staying under the radar to avoid political pressure to pass new regulation. To the best of our knowledge, passing on gains from securities trading with no legal ownership of securities given to our customers does currently not require a license in our jurisdictions.
August 27, 2013, 01:56:24 PM
Yeah. But then you need to assume that they are stupid and so when you say them "buy 1264 shares of ABC and 1734 of DEF" (where ABC and DEF are a rarely traded assets), they are actually buying the exact amount of both of them... which they should not, if they are smart and don't want to get busted.
It is tough to do real-time trading and avoid that problem.
And the more the service gets popular, the more the volumes add up, the harder it is for anyone to match them with a single account requests.
But that is also why I don't think they will ever switch to an actual real-time trading - it must always be somehow delayed, in order to combine requests from different accounts.
Another trick you could use is to spread the requests among different brokerage accounts.
These are just ideas from the top of my head, but I'm sure if I had built such a service, I'd probably have more security related countermeasures in my head.
August 27, 2013, 01:48:34 PM
Yeah. But then you need to assume that they are stupid and so when you say them "buy 1264 shares of ABC and 1734 of DEF" (where ABC and DEF are a rarely traded assets), they are actually buying the exact amount of both of them... which they should not, if they are smart and don't want to get busted.
It is tough to do real-time trading and avoid that problem.
August 27, 2013, 01:42:30 PM
I'm sure it would be trivial to discover the owner by making signature investments on certain scales and identifying the pattern on an exchange.
Yeah. But then you need to assume that they are stupid and so when you say them "buy 1264 shares of ABC and 1734 of DEF" (where ABC and DEF are a rarely traded assets), they are actually buying the exact amount of both of them... which they should not, if they are smart and don't want to get busted. August 27, 2013, 01:36:07 PM
I'm sure it would be trivial to discover the owner by making signature investments on certain scales and identifying the pattern on an exchange.
+1
I was also curious about dividends.
That would be ideal: a [non-anonymous, sorry TorBroker] service that allowed me to
- deposit bitcoins
- trade US securities
- receive dividend payments, instantly converted to bitcoins, and credited to a bitcoin balance
- withdraw bitcoins
August 27, 2013, 01:33:41 PM
Problem #2: US capital gains tax liability, which the operators presumably must pay
I asked this question before, but it stayed unanswered.Maybe they are just located in one of the countries that does not have capital gain taxes - in such case they would not say and I can understand it somehow.
But as for the service itself, assuming it isn't a scam, IMHO it is the second best bitcoin-only service in the existence.
Just don't ask me to mention the first one
August 27, 2013, 01:32:55 PM
I'm sure it would be trivial to discover the owner by making signature investments on certain scales and identifying the pattern on an exchange.
August 27, 2013, 01:28:47 PM
Definitely an ambitious and exciting service. Glad to see it. This sort of investing is key to growing bitcoin, and creating "100,000 little links" with the legacy financial world.
Problem #1: impossible to prove this is not a scam, besides actual service testing and observing the results.
Problem #2: US capital gains tax liability, which the operators presumably must pay
Problem #3: Bitcoin income/exchange tax liability, and other regulatory risk. Move any significant amount of money into TorBroker, and it is noticable that you are suddenly appearing at your brokerage's doorstep with USD cash from already-watched bitcoin exchange sources.
Even assuming 100% honest site operators, a more realistic fee seems like it would be closer to 33% to cover all taxes, since operators seem unlikely to be able to prove to the IRS that receiving thousands/millions of dollars in bitcoins is not income.
Disclaimer: Of course, for legal and risk related reasons, I do not plan to actually connect to the website.
Problem #1: impossible to prove this is not a scam, besides actual service testing and observing the results.
Problem #2: US capital gains tax liability, which the operators presumably must pay
Problem #3: Bitcoin income/exchange tax liability, and other regulatory risk. Move any significant amount of money into TorBroker, and it is noticable that you are suddenly appearing at your brokerage's doorstep with USD cash from already-watched bitcoin exchange sources.
Even assuming 100% honest site operators, a more realistic fee seems like it would be closer to 33% to cover all taxes, since operators seem unlikely to be able to prove to the IRS that receiving thousands/millions of dollars in bitcoins is not income.
Disclaimer: Of course, for legal and risk related reasons, I do not plan to actually connect to the website.
August 27, 2013, 11:43:33 AM
I knew this service was very ambitious to be running from the start. Glad to see you're still up!
August 27, 2013, 10:25:10 AM
New securities added & commission lowered during the rest of 2013
TorBroker is happy to announce the following platform updates:
* +350 ADRs (American Depositary Receipts) added enabling exposure to international stocks such as Rio Tinto (RIO), Sony Corporation (SNE) and Royal Dutch Shell plc (RDS-A)
* Minimum commission lowered to 5$ during the rest of 2013
* Extended order window meaning orders are now executed at the following market opening if placed before 9:00 EST am
Furthermore, we are working hard to bring live trading, automated transactions, margin trading and a better and more informative interface to TorBroker in the following months!
TorBroker is happy to announce the following platform updates:
* +350 ADRs (American Depositary Receipts) added enabling exposure to international stocks such as Rio Tinto (RIO), Sony Corporation (SNE) and Royal Dutch Shell plc (RDS-A)
* Minimum commission lowered to 5$ during the rest of 2013
* Extended order window meaning orders are now executed at the following market opening if placed before 9:00 EST am
Furthermore, we are working hard to bring live trading, automated transactions, margin trading and a better and more informative interface to TorBroker in the following months!
August 10, 2013, 03:36:44 AM
This seems risky located on TOR and all.
Maybe that's why it's in the Gambling section. 
This service is definitely useful and the business model seems solid, so they can have a nice steady profit, if it kicks in - unfortunately that is the only thing we have to relay on, as a trust measure.
I'm careful myself, but I just love this idea and could not resist...
Anyway, so far so good - that's all we know.
August 09, 2013, 04:04:24 PM
This seems risky located on TOR and all. Do they have BTC held by someone trusted as was suggested in earlier post or decided not to?
August 09, 2013, 02:52:01 PM
Question: Where is the withdraw funds button?
Deposits seem to be working fine... but I can't seem to find the withdrawal option...
Update Found it. Apparently it takes time for funds to be confirmed and the withdrawal button doesn't appear until your BTC are turned into $ balance.
Deposits seem to be working fine... but I can't seem to find the withdrawal option...
Update Found it. Apparently it takes time for funds to be confirmed and the withdrawal button doesn't appear until your BTC are turned into $ balance.
July 11, 2013, 03:51:37 AM
Quote
By offering leverage we can lower the amount that people will need to deposit with us in order to make significant trades, thus also lowering the amount of trust that people need to have in us. As you mention, people are naturally reluctant to deposit significant amounts with an anonymous service, so offering leverage is a top priority for us.
Quote
When are real time trades going to be enabled? (Not next-day trades)
This is also on our to do list, but you should expect this to take longer for us to implement than leveraged trading.Quote
Is there some kind of demo account to test the system with?
At the moment no. But you can of course create an account for free and take a look around the interface.Quote
Will bonds, FX and commodities be available at some point?
This is also planned. But note that to some degree you can already get exposure in these areas through ETFs. July 10, 2013, 12:16:11 PM
Thnks what are your thoughts on functionality?
what are your thoughts on functionality? July 10, 2013, 07:16:53 AM
A few questions..
Is there a minimum deposit?
Is leverage available?
When are real time trades going to be enabled? (Not next-day trades)
Is there some kind of demo account to test the system with?
Will bonds, FX and commodities be available at some point?
When are real time trades going to be enabled? (Not next-day trades)
Is there some kind of demo account to test the system with?
Will bonds, FX and commodities be available at some point?
July 10, 2013, 07:14:29 AM
Anyone using this still?
I'm starting to test it. I share the concerns of many here regarding the possibility of it being a scam... however I would very much like to see TorBroker succeed. There's nothing more annoying and intrusive of privacy than opening a brokerage account, especially internationally.
July 09, 2013, 11:08:05 AM
Anyone using this still?
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