Topic: [ANN] Whirlwind.money | ⚡No Fee⚡ | Ultimate Privacy | Anonymity Mining 12% APR🔥 - page 5. (Read 12718 times)

BenCodie, please review your last few posts (including the ones where you have insulted respected members of the forum) and ask yourself if you have achieved anything constructive by using profanities and insults. I doubt it will help you when you put forward any argument to debate any matter in any walk of life therefore it should not help you here.

Also, would you like to re-think your post about you saying in your opinion you knew Whirlwind was a scam but you did two very interesting things. First, you did not post warnings about it (because you said you were not obliged to) and second, even though in your opinion it was a scam from the very beginning you did not hesitate to apply to join their signature campaign and you would have no problem with participating if you were selected.

That sort of conduct is shocking to say the least if you are stating you believed it was a scam but had no problem wanting to be part of their signature campaign.

The person I referred to wasn’t you.. but if the shoe fits …

Alright, since this has gone personal, listen up, and listen good.

I'm very much aware of the shit coming from the cryptocurrency space. Nonetheless, there exist legit services which require you to forfeit custody, and you'll have to grasp that part.

Now as for my checks and moral standards, what the actual fuck? Yes, I want to advertise privacy enhancing services, I believe it's a fundamental right, which we fall short in a protocol level. Yes, whirlwind seemed fine to me, they were new to the community, but how the actual fuck do you think the rest of the mixers began their journey? Take a walk into the Services board for me real quick. ChipMixer, CryptoMixer, Sinbad, Yomix. Anonymous newbies setup these, not DT1. Then, they hire a manager to spread the word and build trust. Their ANN threads are like a few weeks older than their sig. campaigns.

Now, let's debunk some real shit.

Okay, two things.

• Mixers (or at least, mixers I have advertised) don't take custody for an extended period of time. It's all down to you. Do you want to withdraw at the same time you deposit? Good. At this point, they fall into the third category of your moral pyramid.
• Why the fuck are casinos less legit? I didn't get that part. They're obviously in favor of your loss, just as users are in favor of casinos' loss. If the user is somehow having the impression he can take money out of their business, then so does he pray for their loss. The ethical balance is equal.

And neither is the front-end of any mixer we've advertised in this place so far, open-source. (And it needn't to be). Nonetheless, whirlwind had told they would if blinded certificates were implemented.

Lol. Just lol. They're a service.

Until the newbie deposits an escrow that can cover the damages, in case they disappear. (As it happened)

No, money is. The guy may have scammed, but they didn't just appeared out nowhere without a buck, attempting to convince us they've designed the best mixer there is. Escrow talks itself, I won't repeat it.

Which, as said by themselves, was done on purpose because there wasn't enough demand. (they had also clarified they weren't on rush)

---

P.S. Watch your manners. 

I had reasons to believe that it was a scam however I, nor anyone who is not an "elite" would have been paid attention to if we were to talk about the red flags, due to how many people (like BlackHatCoiner) would have irrationally defended it and irrationally discussed it due to how much was being paid to members and, maybe even their involvement... That's another consequence of not vetting campaigns, people who get paid will defend it and shadow the ones behind it. Even if I was getting paid, I'd have not defended it. I'd have just enjoyed the opportunity while it lasted while having my reservations.

I made my opinion on the mixing protocol itself because that was factual and provable, it got half-assed rebutted by whirlwin and no one else continued the conversation or paid attention to my post, or I would have contributed more if other users wanted to talk about it - no one did.

I'm not a genius for seeing red flags. I'm sure many others did but, for similar reasons to mine, kept their mouths shut....and, for the sake of not doing what I have to do right now - are continuing to keep their mouth shut.

I didn't wear the signature at any stage...yet I'm a villain for knowing and not pointing out red flags for you all? Despite most probably being ignored because the red flags aren't provable til after the fact? Shame on you for that preposterous jab.

Whether or not I said something, BlackHatCoiner would still be saying the same shit he said in his original post, and everyone who currently has their dick in their hand would still have their dick in their hand, most likely.

Tldr: You should GTFO for calling me worse than the guy who wore the signature, didn't do his due diligence, and endorsed the service as well as getting paid to advertise is. You should rethink your comment tryhardninja and you should also get off BlackHatCoiner's dick.

As for you BlackHatCoiner, you not having anything valid to say except quoting a signature campaign application says enough.

So you knew it was a scam but still was willing to advertise it and didn’t even care enough to warn us? Jesus, that’s even worse.

Handsight 20/20, huh? Turns out everybody is suddenly a genius.

It's not my responsibility to keep this forum safe. Just like it's not yours, or anyone's. It's clearly optional. if whirlwind are going to pay good money for me to post, then I will. If they pay me to post a review, I will. Innocent until proven guilty...I wouldn't advertise them now.

As for the checks I need to do - the only checks I need to do are for me if I am using the service. Is that selfish? Yes. But how constructive would it have really been if I raised red flags in WW thread or anywhere else? I think it would have caused more drama, or would have taken a lot of effort. Under what basis am I saying this? I called out Boxxob for promoting a multi million dollar casino scam and yet he's still here getting paid to advertise l0tt0, another casino.

Conclusion, and point?

It's not my responsibility to take care of people here...and I definitely won't act as if I am surprised when they run away.

Hence, I'll apply to the campaign - and any other campaign. If people more powerful than me want to make a change, I'll definitely follow. I'm trying to help with the security & privacy board. Otherwise, why should I forego an opportunity that allows me to be rewarded for being a part of a great forum, ultimately supporting an even greater cause?

If you really care or if you're going to be shocked when something happens, or if yo got scammed, then you need to do better checks.

This isn't the right topic to discuss that.

Well... where do we go from here? I'm seeing a lot of signatures of the OGs who I kind of look up to change to EXCH.ch... and I say this respectfully, but really? I see they've been around for 10 years but didn't we just talk about how there's some responsibility on us to vet what we promote? I know we're all looking for the reputable place to go right now, I mean that's how a lot of us got here after Chipmixer, and isn't it dangerous to be promoting EXCH.ch when they are just so underutilized? I'm open to being convinced otherwise — anyone who knows me knows I'm openminded and all, I guess I'm just at a loss right now on where we go from here. I was super excited about Whirlwind.

My checks are shit. Lmao. 

Because it's a scam tactic?

Everything else you mentioned is bait to get people into the service and probably stems from previous scams.

They didn't have the money to run the most profitable campaign in the long run - this just built instant trust and lured people in to advertise the scam.
$40k collateral? If it yields even 10℅ in net profits (net scam profits) then that's no problem for a previous scammer/group.
Charging zero for mixing? Red flag. lol.
8BTC to begin with ... Great, but that would have just come from the last scam.

"Legitimacy score/level" starts with the nature of the business, then it's operations.
- Services which do not take custody of peoples coins for extended periods of time (as centralized exchanges, mixers, casinos commonly do) and that are more transactional = higher legitimacy score
- Services which do not pray on the demise of the end user (casinos) = more ethical, and thus likely to be more legitimate toward users
- Services/businesses which provide an instant good/service = more legitimate (more transactional, you buy, you receive, end of transaction)

Obviously you've been so lost in the mixer & casino sauce that you've lost touch of the aspects of a truly legitimate business lol

As for you being apparently tricked - if they're your checks - your checks are SHIT.
- Code is not open source
- Protocol is not decentralized
- Custody is kept (who gives a shit about a newbie's promises?)
- Creator was a newbie who could talk somewhat technically (is that really a legitimacy indicator?)
- On-chain traces showed the mixing was not anymore advanced than any other solution (I pointed this out early on, BTW)

These are 5 red flags I could spit out about WW without even mentioning the "anonymity mining" scam campaign.

Yeah I heard about that, I think he was one of developers who worked on code.
Governments don't like when someone is doing things they don't like, only they can hire hackers to work for them and wash money all the time  

They obviously knew that end days of Tornado is coming soon, so maybe they tried to transition to something new.
It's not only similarities in design, some of you may remember that one of the last messages from man behind WW was plans for introducing of ETH and XMR, and working more on decentralization.
I could be totally wrong about this, and I don't have any insider information

The same thought crossed my mind when I saw that news since I also read about similarities between ww and Tornado, but would those who are on the run or are connected to those who are on the run start another mixer service instead of laying low for some time until things cool off?

That seems like a common sense to me, then again common sense is not so common.

Interesting theory. There was also a third person, Alexey Pertsev, who isn't mentioned in the indictment. If I'm not mistaken, he was arrested last year in the Netherlands where he spent some time in prison, got released early this year, and now he's waiting for his trial.

Maybe because it was eerily similar to Celsius' APR rates: https://bitcompare.net/platforms/celsius-network .

10+% APR is very unstable and that means you are doing some high-risk, liquidity-wise, financial activity to sustain that rate. It obviously must be paid from profit because if you just take that money off of reserves, eventually there will be no more money to do this.

That set off alarm bells inside me that gave me the suspicion that this program would not be profitable (and I did tell them that), but I never thought they would pull an exit scam on the whole mixer like this, especially after they were discussing on the forum about how to best implement privacy for their service, avatar design contest etc.

They certainly attracted several people in forum to leave coins received from signature campaign so they could earn a bit more.
It was suspicious to me when they first released 12% APR and I wrote about that publicly, but this is not huge percentages like we saw in regular scams.

Let me enter Speculation Station now,
I don't want to vindicate whirlwind or to justify what happened with them, but I noticed several people mentioned about similarities with Tornado cash service, and we know that escrow funds was deposited in DAI tokens on ethereum blockchain.
Now I saw one interesting news posted few days ago about recently arrested Tornado Cash co-founder Roman Storm, while fellow co-founder Roman Semenov remains at large, and he is added to the list of US sanctioned individuals.
It's not impossible to think there was some connection with whirlwind, and this could be one of the reasons for their/his absence and for service not working anymore.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/tornado-cash-founders-charged-money-laundering-and-sanctions-violations

We may never know if there was any connection or nor, but I would like to know the truth, one way or another.

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with the 12% APR. If they had the money to run the most profitable signature campaign, leave $40k as collateral, charged absolutely zero for mixing, and carried a shitload amount of money to begin with as we saw, then it doesn't preclude the possibility that they wanted to attract users via APR.

I'm yet to understand how is this legitimacy measured. Presenting yourself as the superior custodial mixer, about to introduce blinded bearer certificates, backed by significant collateral, and employing one of the most reliable campaign managers, had successfully and convincingly passed my test of legitimacy.

That's a bit extreme. More like you'd just get paid less to advertise more legitimate campaigns.

Economics say to me that the rate would reduce, advertising would be more affordable, thus more legitimate businesses would opt to advertise here instead of scams and exploitative/basically-scam casinos like current.


If the business generated more than 12% in earnings per year, then it's not a ponzi. The difference between an obvious ponzi and whirlwind is that the mixer was clearly working, the unknown wasn't if the business was real but rather that no one could known whether or not it was turning a profit after advertising expenses. That's why I didn't speak up when I saw it. I'm sure others didn't speak up also for this reason.


There's nothing to tell...and definitely no evidence to tie with the nothing that is to be told. Very much not interested in giving my idea of what's reading between the lines, only to be bashed and for the problem to remain unchanged.

Regarding the two points you stated, if that is what any member thinks it is their opinion and there will always be a difference of opinion. If there are members who have the principle that Whirlwind was an obvious scam that is there opinion but in my opinion it does not have merit because it was not obvious to most of us.

Also, if there are any members alluding that those who participated in the signature campaign knowingly promoted a scam (for the sake of $125-$150 per week), that too is an opinion they are entitled to. I think that opinion will be shared by a tiny minority.

Because you are reading out of context, I am not discussing CM per se, I was simply implying that if someone thinks that those who participated in WW are remotely responsible for users' loss -- they should think the same in regard to any other service including CM, I used CM as an example since the person I was discussing with was advertising CM.

You may come up with all kinds of differences between the two services, but the end result is the same, a large failure which resulted in lost funds and possibly a lot of data leaked.

So, if advertising for WW was wrong -- then advertising for CM was also wrong, it's also wrong to advertise any other services now since all services without exception could fail or exit scam and thus result in lost funds.


I understand that coming from someone who never advertised any service before, but as soon as you start advertising something it automatically puts you on the same boat as everyone else who promotes a service that isn't an obvious scam like Ponzi, so it makes no sense to say "I am better than you because I am advertising this service which I so happen not to guarantee".

I have nothing against n0nce, but the main takeaway of his post was

1- WW was as obvious a scam as Bitconnect.
2- Everyone who participated in WW did it for the $/post despite knowing it was a scam

I respect his decision for not feeling comfortable advertising WW or any other service he doesn't like, but those claims make it seem like every one of us was advertising an obvious scam just for money, maybe he didn't mean it that way, but his post implies exactly that.

That's the tricky part: even though I agree, many people don't think that way. Just like they think Merit is an endorsement.