Topic: [ANN]BitcoinPlus (XBC) / MANDATORY WALLET UPDATE / BIT-ADOPTION! - page 42. (Read 169673 times)

Dear XBC fans, haters and the curious,
Yesterday I witnessed an interesting chatsession in #XBC with among others our dev seriouscoins, our wallet dev mindfox and Poloniex´ wallet manager honeybadger that I would like to share with as wide a crypto audience as possible. Not specifically XBC related so slightly off/topic but it was interesting to see mindfox argue that cryptocurrency´s principle of decentralisation is in contradiction with making anonimous transactions, however they are implemented. It boils down to the fact that you need a trusted party to anonimize transactions which is against the filosophy of most cryptocurrencies that are clones of BTC and the like. I edited some the transcript to filter out nontopical contributions that were being said.
Have fun reading, it is very informative!

[03:46] +mindfox, can you add anonimity to XBC before the end of next week?
[03:46] just kidding : )
[03:46] <+mindfox_home> lol
[03:46] <+mindfox_home> here goes the anonimity again
[03:47] <+mindfox_home> I'm sorry, I have to express myself open here
[03:47] your efforts and work  are very much appreciated
[03:47] <+mindfox_home> wake up. anonimity is a nice marketing trick
[03:47] btc was marketed for its anonimity before
[03:47] <@seven30> every little bit helps. I take it it's not as easy to implement
[03:47] <+BlackMarketKarma> pseudoanonymity
[03:47] I don't understand what isn't anon already
[03:48] <+mindfox_home> pseudo?
[03:48] you're not going to get total anonimity
[03:48] <+mindfox_home> what makes you say that?
[03:48] do you think good open source anon coins arent truly anonymous?
[03:48] <+mindfox_home> lol, omg
[03:48] <+mindfox_home> I'm sorry, I honestly believe that we all need to read some white papers
[03:48] <+mindfox_home> and understand how coins works
[03:48] <+mindfox_home> let's discuss about anonymous transactions then
[03:49] <+BlackMarketKarma> it’s pseudoanyonymous…the blockchain being a public ledger, makes the transactions and their amounts public while maintingin the anonymity of the sender/receiver as long as their taint analysis proves clean and they’ve been using new addys
[03:49] i think that for some users anonimty is a big advantage
[03:49] <+mindfox_home> define anonimity
[03:49] <@selsonblue> I WANT 100% ANONIMITY
[03:49] <@selsonblue> OR ELSE
[03:50] <+mindfox_home> what is the very principle of cryptocoin currencies?
[03:50] * SeriousCoins is logging this conversation toward future anon arguments
[03:50] <+mindfox_home> can one tell me please?
[03:50] <+BlackMarketKarma> i dont know who’s been acting as proponents of anonymous coins here but it hasn’t been me. im interested in what those crazy college guys are going to do with the zerocoin protocl…but that’s about it
[03:50] <+mindfox_home> the fundamental principle of coins, is decentralization
[03:50] <+BlackMarketKarma> be my own bank goddamnit
[03:51] tehey want anonimity badly so that they can do their shopping or storing money without their wife knowing it
[03:51] <+mindfox_home> that's a by-product
...
[03:54] <+mindfox_home> all "anonymous" coins requires a central hub
[03:54] <+mindfox_home> for the transactions to be processed
[03:54] <+mindfox_home> boom. there you have your de-centralization
[03:54] <+mindfox_home> down the drain
[03:55] so anonimousation = centralisation
[03:55] <+mindfox_home> yes
[03:55] <+mindfox_home> so, whoever wants information
[03:55] <+mindfox_home> instead of trying to find out in several places
[03:55] <+mindfox_home> *trying* to track addresses
[03:55] <+mindfox_home> he just needs to access this central hub
[03:55] i understand that drks centralisatuion lies with masternodes that are at least now closed source
[03:56] not very trustworthy imo
[03:56] <+mindfox_home> well, closed source they may be
[03:56] <+mindfox_home> but what if a court order arrives at them?
[03:56] <+mindfox_home> what will they do? sacrifice their freedom for the sake of "anonimity"?
[03:56] and how does the centralisation/anon issue work for cryptonote?
[03:56] <@Wallenstein> so this entire anonymity thing is really a bunch of BS ... it's just that we're trading distributed storage for centralized ... which actually makes things worse
[03:57] <@Wallenstein> if I understand correctly
[03:57] <+mindfox_home> let's talk on another thing then
[03:57] <+mindfox_home> hiding the origins of a transaction
[03:57] <@tf2honeybadger> guys
[03:57] <@tf2honeybadger> did you already forget?
[03:57] <+mindfox_home> the very basic principle that is used to verify that coins are legit?
[03:57] <@tf2honeybadger> You cannot win an argument with mindfox_home.
[03:57] lol
[03:57] people wont learn
[03:57] novbody is doubting his statements, at least nnot me, as im a noob
[03:58] <+mindfox_home> if all the wallets can't verify the transactions, how can one distinguish real from injected?
[03:58] crypto tunnel vision im going to call it
[03:58] <+mindfox_home> what? using p2p and tor?
[03:59] <+mindfox_home> the whole fuzz about anonimity, is because there is a way of knowing the ip that broadcasted a transaction
[03:59] <+mindfox_home> right?
[03:59] <+mindfox_home> I mean, if someone sends coins, that transaction has to be communicated to other wallets
[03:59] i suppose...
[03:59] <+mindfox_home> well, there's a thing
[04:00] <+mindfox_home> when my wallet is getting your transaction, it pushes it forward to the next available wallet
[04:00] <+mindfox_home> exactly the way it was received
[04:00] <+mindfox_home> there is no way of knowing if I'm the originator or the 5th broadcaster
[04:00] <+mindfox_home> so, what is really traceable?
[04:00] <+mindfox_home> a wallet address
[04:01] <+mindfox_home> that if solo used, it has the transactions in it
[04:01] <+mindfox_home> so, let me ask you something
[04:01] <+mindfox_home> what stops you from creating a unique address for every incoming transaction?
[04:01] <+mindfox_home> current wallets can handle it, no problem
[04:01] <+BlackMarketKarma> nothing. that’s what you shiuld be doing
[04:02] fox, you are right, we should all read whitepapers. only problem is that it is too theoretical for me. otherwise i would maybe have become an it wizard myself
[04:02] <+mindfox_home> exactly BlackMarketKarma. That's the best anonimity for your transaction
[04:02] * Anonymity was slain by mindfox
[04:02] <+mindfox_home> zmeddy, I understand
[04:02] i lack some skills there
[04:02] <+mindfox_home> but, let me put it this way
[04:02] Can't people just get VPNs if they wanted to stay anonymous?
[04:02] <+mindfox_home> if I was selling an elixir of eternal youth
[04:02] <+mindfox_home> would you buy it from me for $100k
[04:02] * tf2honeybadger snatches it out of mindfox_home's hand
[04:02] <+mindfox_home> just because I say it's an elixir?
[04:02] <+BlackMarketKarma> on your word?
[04:02] lol
[04:03] <+BlackMarketKarma> not a chance in hell
[04:03] <+mindfox_home> yes, on my word
[04:03] * SeriousCoins slaps Anonymity around a bit with a large trout
[04:03] <+mindfox_home> well, why do you invest in cryptocoins that you don't completely understand what they're about?
[04:03] <+mindfox_home> that's my question
[04:03] <+BlackMarketKarma> which coins are those
[04:03] <@selsonblue> BOOOM
[04:03] * tf2honeybadger slaps SeriousCoins with a killer whale
[04:03] <@selsonblue> Knowledge dropped
[04:03] <+mindfox_home> I see people jump to those new things
[04:03] <+BlackMarketKarma> that i am lacking a choke hold
[04:03] <@tf2honeybadger> LOL selsonblue
[04:03] * Anonymity slaps tf2honeybadger around a bit with a large trout
[04:03] * tf2honeybadger slaps Anonymity with the NSA
[04:03] <@tf2honeybadger> K.O.
[04:03] LOL
[04:03] <+mindfox_home> and I'm standing in a corner and I usually laugh
[04:04] <+mindfox_home> it's simple logic
[04:04] <+mindfox_home> honestly, information gathering and putting our minds to think logically
[04:04] <@Wallenstein> mindfox: let me ask you something
[04:04] <+mindfox_home> sure
[04:05] <@Wallenstein> since every wallet has to download the blockchain anyways, that means that every wallet has a complete transaction record of the coin in question, right?
[04:06] <+mindfox_home> yes
[[04:06] <+mindfox_home> and this is the way to verify everything for validity
[04:06] <@Wallenstein> exactly
[04:06] <+mindfox_home> that's the base feature of cryptocurrency
[04:06] <+mindfox_home> everyone can validate a transaction
[04:06] <+mindfox_home> which makes it secure
[04:07] <@Wallenstein> so the entire problem with the centralization issue of anonymity is that we replace local full transaction histories with centralized ones
[04:07] <+mindfox_home> not exactly
[04:07] <@Wallenstein> ok
[04:07] <+mindfox_home> you get back altered transaction history
[04:07] <+mindfox_home> the anonimized ones
[04:07] <+mindfox_home> which of course, leads us to the next question
[04:07] <@Wallenstein> ok, but the master records are centralized
[04:07] Guys you should all know by now with all the Computer forensics     there is No REAL 100% anonymity  Unless the programmer is the computer forensics guru   then its always gonna be traced somehow  and for 100 complete anonymity it would probrbably have to be a 100%  brand new programming language no one else had     that s my take on it
[04:07] <+mindfox_home> how can you verify those transactions that were properly "anonimized"?
[04:08] <+mindfox_home> what stops the hub owner of using it for his advantage?
[04:08] <@Wallenstein> if that is so, then such a coin could be essentially killed by removing the centralied nodes???
[04:08] <@Wallenstein> that is another good point
[04:08] <+mindfox_home> well, that could be expected beforehand by the code
[04:08] <+mindfox_home> and switch modes
[04:08] <+mindfox_home> I don't believe that this is a problem
[04:08] <@Wallenstein> ok
[04:08] <+mindfox_home> the problem is not when the hub stops
[04:08] <+mindfox_home> but while it operates
[04:09] <@SeriousCoins> effectively we have centralized banks once again.. and we're putting our trust into a hub that can leak all the information at any given time.. ok
[04:09] <+mindfox_home> is it "honest" enough?
[04:09] <+mindfox_home> not only leak the information
[04:09] <@Wallenstein> either way, the information is still there ... and can be gotten, whether by theaft or court order ...
[04:09] <+mindfox_home> what's to stop the hub owner from creating new coins out of thin air
[04:09] <+mindfox_home> and "excuse" them as anonymous?
[04:09] but but but you can say it is anon and people will buy it
[04:09] <@Wallenstein> very good point
[04:09] <@SeriousCoins> indeed
[04:10] <@Wallenstein> wow, thank you for your insights and explanations
[04:10] <+mindfox_home> especially when the hub is running on closed source?
[04:10] <@selsonblue> Your entire conversation has been recorded !!! HOWS TAHT FOR ANONYMOUS
[04:10] Say and is   are 2 different things    I got a black  2014   lambo in my driveway  thats really a chevette
[04:10] <+mindfox_home> I'm not anonymous
[04:10] <+mindfox_home>
[04:10] <@XBClion> llol
[04:10] <@SeriousCoins> ./pastebin
[04:10] because..... batman
[04:10] <@Wallenstein> well, since you can't tell what the hub is running anyhow, it may as well be ... even if you publish the source, there is no way to verify that the hub is running that very exact same code
[04:11] <@SeriousCoins> Thats what gets me about these dice games actually wallenstein..
[04:11] <@SeriousCoins> provably honest? how?
[04:11] <@SeriousCoins> lol
[04:11] i have another question, if you exchange altcoins for btc or vice versa, and the exchange database is destroyed, will it be possible to track those exchage transactions, lets say between LTC and BTC for example?
[04:12] <@tf2honeybadger> no
[04:12] <@Wallenstein> @serious: exactly ... you have to trust someone at some point ... but when money is involved this is a dicey proposition ... especially in a totally unregulated thing like Bitcon/altcoin
[04:12] ala crappyrush?
[04:13] <+mindfox_home> zmeddy: no
[04:13] <+mindfox_home> all the exchange transactions are virtual
[04:13] <+mindfox_home> not in wallets, just the db backend
[04:14] <@Wallenstein> ok, that's what i figured, otherwise how do they get the performance solved?
[04:14] yes, i understand. and different coins with unrelated blockchains are only vrtually connected through an excahnge
[04:14] <@jiapetz> freejaypee if we put that icon in our wallet, does it count as implementing anon tech?
[04:14] <+mindfox_home> yes
[04:14] Yes
[04:14] <+mindfox_home> exactly as you would do for in-person exchange
[04:15] <+mindfox_home> keep it in an excel or something
[04:15] you should get custom made ones
[04:15] sell them
[04:15] if people want to be anonymous
[04:15] <@Wallenstein> Mr. Fox, thank you for your patience with use clueless folks ... it's highly appreicated
[04:15] <@selsonblue> Anonymity = Cash and a ski mask
[04:15] <@selsonblue> DO so at your own risk
[04:16] <@selsonblue> thats what anonymity does
[04:18] <@SeriousCoins> If you post your bitcoin address right here in this chat and I send you a bitcoin from a brand new address I just made that has no relevant transactions tied to any of my other addresses (a one time address), is there anyway on earth you could possibly prove that coin came from me. Mindfox?
[04:19] <@tf2honeybadger> SeriousCoins: yes
[04:19] <@tf2honeybadger> SeriousCoins: you just told me
[04:19] <+mindfox_home> SeriousCoins, you can't have a new address just to send me coins
[04:19] <+mindfox_home> because you need to put some coins to if first
[04:19] <@SeriousCoins> well I could withdraw the coins from an exchange
[04:19] <@tf2honeybadger> green?
[04:19] * mindfox_home sprays them
[04:20] or buy some serious mining equipment and mine the btc
[04:20] <@SeriousCoins> or have my friend send the coin back to his cousin then to my one time adress which i then send to you
[04:20] <@tf2honeybadger> Oh
[04:20] <@tf2honeybadger> Do /me (message)
[04:20] <@jiapetz> holy crap seriouscoins you've got it. We'll do exchange mixing to anonymize transactions
[04:20] <@SeriousCoins> no
[04:20] <+mindfox_home> ok, I rent cousins for everyone
[04:20] <+mindfox_home> !!!
[04:20] <@SeriousCoins> LOL
[04:20] <@SeriousCoins> ok let me reword
[04:21] == tf2honeybadger changed the topic of #xbc to: [22:02] * Anonymity was slain by mindfox | (10:20:34 PM) mindfox_home: ok, I rent cousins for everyone
[04:21] <+mindfox_home> YAY
[04:21] <+mindfox_home> positive advertisement
[04:21] <+mindfox_home> I'll be reach
[04:21] <+mindfox_home> and out of cousins
[04:23] <@SeriousCoins> mindfox, if i send tf2 a bitcoin, and he sends me back two bitcoins, can you prove that I now have 3 bitcoins?
[04:23] <+mindfox_home> no, because you don't SeriousCoins
[04:23] <+mindfox_home> you have two
[04:23] <@tf2honeybadger> SeriousCoins: once again, YOU DON'T EVERYONE
[04:23] <@selsonblue> Get it!
[04:23] <@tf2honeybadger> WTF did I just say
[04:23] <@tf2honeybadger> YOU TOLD EVERYONE *
...
[04:29] <+mindfox_home> ok, I really have to take a quick nap before work
[04:29] <+mindfox_home> see you all

Where's my Shirts to buy? 

Without giving any time frame or ETA , could we know the remaining steps in the process to be completed before we can get our grubby hands on our new coins?  : We have heard the wallet has gone to Polo for checking and polo happy? What then? 

The community is absolutely brilliant and near Magical !

It's definitely not about spreading memes.
There are many BIG, BIG!!! plans which most are still widely undisclosed and being talked about between developers.

First things first - establishing security and foundation. With the coin of such limited supply, with the current PoS model and the devs, the price will go up to astronomical levels with rather fast cyclic intervals. It means that there MUST be proper and professional development that really hones the foundation damn well.

The time that has taken into this purpose has pissed some impatient people off...
It is unfortunate of course, but the PoS model guarantees that the devs are in for the longest run. It would be extremely foolish to be haphazard about it and just please the fast & the furious at this point.

XBC is one of the brightest little stars there currently is because of precisely mature minded and long term oriented devs who are truly making Bitcoin Plus as one of the best cryptos yet to exist, perhaps even the best when all extra features start to take form. I believe it will end up being very versatile and that it will conquer many markets.

XBC is currently already getting ready to organize community to provide translations to all major languages for just one example.

Buy and hold - you won't regret it.

And hey, if you love the coin as much as pretty much everyone who has been properly introduced to it, you will have a great time participating in the community.

This is not just another coin.
Community is strong behind this one for a myriad of reasons.

Long term development with absolutely enthusiastic and professional & mature crowd.
Most devs are in their 30's-50's. So it's not a bunch of kids fooling around 

People are serious on this one.

You clearly don't know much about this development team 

For a start, the lead developer destroyed $100,000 worth of coins because it was what the community of investors asked for..

Secondly, the lead dev Seriouscoins - has worked countless days with just a couple of hours sleep, never have I met someone as hard working and dedicated as him.

what does this coin do besides a community that come up with memes and funny posters?

[22:58] so next time xbc goes frozen.....we can all go crazy?
[22:59] <@SeriousCoins> I wish I could answer that with a yes
[22:59] <@SeriousCoins> but with my luck something will cause it to freeze before hand lol



omg seriouscoins is a prophet. he can predict the future as evidenced by this temp freeze lolol

Next time......

It's already unfrozen (with old wallet).

XBC frozen on Poloniex.
What could this mean? Installing new wallet perhaps? 

friendly reminder to

A) Vote on MintPal

B) Go buy more XBC over at Polo!!!

Thanks qi! That would be great. Completely forgot that your hubby did the ANN translation

Thanks for the wonderful updates. XBC - XTRA classy coin!! I will visit the IRC tomorrow and we can help with translation of wallet  info into Chinese.

  First time I came accross Dark I immediately thought of someone doing something illicit. Unfortunate choice of name. Also, it attracts attention from NSA types. Would have preferred "privacy coin". Besides which, it does seem to be a fad and I don't believe the tech can provide annonimity. I hope XBC will not get obsessed with "anon". Just quality, quality, quality. Looking forward to it. 

No problem at all and thanks for encouraging words from all of you When we say that we will do something, we really do try to follow through. Just working on our timing and "+/- 24hrs"

Also, please do provide people who are wrongly informed, with the correct information, or direct them to a place where they can get the right info (here, IRC, website, contacting a dev, etc).

We really are trying to build a community here, not a just a coin. IMHO, every aspect of a coin is simply to appease the community and reach a bigger audience, hence why so many coins jump on the "new fads"...one of which seems to be anon tech.

Also the reason why I'm personally pushing for coins to start with foundational ideals and build upon them, rather than starting with some coin specs and going forward from there. In this sense, XBC truly is setting new standards for cryptos. For example, I see our cornerstones being a strong, growing community, constant progress, and dedication to transparency. I'm sure the other team members will also agree with me on this.


*There's also a little something on the new site for those of you averse to using IRC. Everyone's gonna wanna test it and in doing so will have to try out IRC at least once mwahaha (jk, you don't have to, but it will be a cool feature I assure you)

Thanks for the update, and yeah, that's the sort of info we'd like to see more of here. Besides just informing people, it serves an additional purpose of possibly getting more people interested in the coin for the first time.

Sometimes people just assume the worst, or are confused completely (like those who think xlc dev is currently this coin's dev) and figure nothing is going on with the coin. Any info at all helps. Thanks again.

Another thing, we did get the results of the slogan and here are the winners:

3rd Place: The People's Digital Reserve – CryptoYoda/Crytobey – 2 xbc

2nd Place: P.L.U.S: Practical. Longterm. Universal. Secure. - Jammer – 2 xbc
 
And now, the official BitcoinPlus Slogan:

1st Place: The New Standard of Digital Currency – DalexMiner/Lexminer – 5 xbc
 
We also had a great graphic and slogan submission that the development
team felt deserved an honorable mention because of its creativity and overall
message.

Honorable Mention: Lead, follow or get out of the way. - Fightingfire – 1 xbc
http://imgur.com/mPmMt3q

We've tried to include the winners in our ad banners both to promote XBC and give our slogan creators public credit for a job well done

*note: The dev team made some slight tweaks to the slogan(s) to make them better reflect our vision, but all credit goes to the original creators.

Hi all,

Same here, I bought more at cheap price, this so long way to have a new wallet and new blockchain will definitively give a new live date to XBC

This is really good

Thanks to the ssupport Team and new Dev !

 

That's more like it.
Hey, I thought you guys were good but if I'd known you had so much good stuff in the pipeline, I'd have bought MORE. Thanks for taking the time to post. really appreciate it. Please keep it up.