Topic: [ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN - page 33. (Read 125752 times)

hmmm...okay...will support only pow coins in future...

 Miners don't provide a service by selling. That is a dis-service.  It's also not important since there will be still sellers without miners.  The less sellers, the better.  Price in free markets is always set by supply and demand.  Less sellers (less supply) will eventually take the price higher unless demand is non-existent.  We don't want sellers, that's the opposite of what is needed.   If there weren't so many people dumping into the bids, and instead, refusing to sell, the price would rise.

Then when the miners all jump in one pool/group or superior hardware such as fpga's concentrates the hash power, then we see unintended or malicious forks.  As these forks keep happening, investors lose faith in the dev's ability to keep the network stable and teh price dumps even more.

None of this would be an issue with POS.

ok.let's say.you have your $10k and i have my $10k.you are buying bwk and i buying hardware 2 month ago.bwk at 5$.now it is at 1.3$...your investment 1|4.are you going to sell it?no.i mined bwk last 2 months at price decreasing.am i going to sell it at 1.3$?no.any way.so who is investor?i mine it?you are buying it=)yes.theoretically with yours efforts price will going up...aaand.lets say that bwk will be at 500$.would you sell it?i don't now...maybe...at least 100x - is a good invesment.and i will sell it for sure.you are right.and i will dump it.yes.BUT.you can buy it with less price and do some X's again...if noone sell it then who will buy it?

Thank you for providing your feedback. I've said this a few times in general chat but I'd like to reiterate in an official capacity that this vote is not a guarantee that any particular choice will be implemented by The Bulwark Team. It was a means to gauge community interest in each option to be taken into consideration while we discuss internally.

Please allow 1-2 days for us to discuss amongst ourselves while weighing the pros and cons of each option. Our goal is to provide the best option for Bulwark to continue in a healthy and successful manner for the long term. Once we've finalized a decision, we will provide another announcement, provide our reasoning for doing so, and commence work immediately.

Thank you for your participation and support!

1.  Free publicity to bring more miners.  Not investors, not buyers. Miners/Sellers don't invest their $$$ in a way that helps the coin.    Their money goes to hardware vendors and electric companies.  Then they sell/dump on the exchanges.  We don't need this kind of publicity.  Compare this to MN owners and Stakers, they are incentivized to first BUY, and take coins off the market and hold them.  They help the community and other investors by stabilizing the price.  The miners just mine and dump.

2.  Far far more risk in buying mining hardware and setting up, than simply buying the coin and staking/MN.

3.  See #1.   What kind of  "community" are you looking to build?  The "community" that only takes?  That switches from coin to coin with lightening speed chasing profits, and then dumping those coins on the market and often straight into the bids?  That's not community.  Those are not loyal holders and buyers.

Sure there are a very very small number of miners that do end up buying and holding bwk and are great to have in the community. No doubt about it.  But they are a small  minority in the greater sea of miners.  Most don't care one bit about the coins they profit from, or the long term future and health of the network.  For example: If they can all pile into one pool to make more money, they do it, regardless of the consequences for the network.

Upsides to continuing PoW, just for the sake of argument-
1. Continued free publicity via WTM/Crypto-coinZ/Crypt0-zone
2. More opportunity for small buyers to get in with less risk
3. Far easier to build a userbase and community via mining than staking.

Thank you. Vote cast on discord. Keep up the good work.

It was between option 1 and 2 for me...was going to vote for 2 but at the end went for option 1. Here is why:
I got into mining last summer. I came across bwk at the beginning of the year on a mining channel. I did not mine it, I bought coins and set up a MN. It has been a rollercoaster ride but I am still around. So the cut the long story short....the BWK roadmap makes sense to me and I am looking forward to pos. I am happy to get to pos sooner rather than later. However with recent developments if BWK does the pow algo switch this can be an opportunity to attract displaced gpu miners to BWK. In most cases gpu miners are enthusiasts who will spread the word, help the coin to gain traction and the community to grow.

I don't believe BCT allows new users to vote on polls. I can't say for certain, but that would be my best guess as to why you're not able to vote.

If you'd like to join our discord at https://discord.gg/2dveH2 , we have the poll up there as well for users to cast their vote on, even if brand new.

lol loud and wrong smh

I must be having a senior moment then as I can figure out how to vote! The voting options at the top of the page do not seem to be active?!

No, it is not over yet.

is voting over now?

Baikal is too lazy and slow to release new Algo's and I think the X10 is done with new algo's they gave 2 extra as advertised and now I'm sure they are working on new hardware.... Poor Baikal, or i should say their customers.  They have taken a beating the last 2 miner's they have released the coins either forked or just not very profitable esp since they got marked up the miner's like 5x..... hope miner's learned their lesson over paying for equipment, they either have nice doorstops now or ROI of like a year unless there are more forks!! Maybe it will slow down the greed in this market and back to the people that mine for the good of the people rather than pure profit!!

market cap is 7 million now...ok...it's not big money to buy all the coins available...decentralized?not sure...

All good points.  Things have certainly changed, and the changes continue to accelerate.  Now there really is no need for POW on the BWK chain, but as you said, miners played a major role just a few short years ago and they still do today for many coins.

I see another unintended fork as highly likely as long as POW remains.  Especially with the superior hardware we see hitting the blockchains today.  People are fooling themselves if they believe that fpga isn't going to adapt to whatever algo the devs choose.  Once this happens, we're back in the same boat with superior hardware concentrating the hash power and forking the coin.

There's really no upside to continuing POW. Only downsides, lower prices, and malicious or unintended forks.

With almost 95% of total supply of coins already in circulation it's almost a moot point.  Hommie you seem so angry, don't worry mining will be done soon enough and the price of will rise.  a 51% attack does not seem like much of a threat since would not be much of a coin grab ($400k).  Xvg was attacked for 4 days until they fixed it,  best guess they got between 80 to 120 million coins at $.08 so $6 to $10 million...Miner's don't always dump, most of the time mining smaller coins is for a long term investment.  I have racks of older miner's that run and run and I only check wallets and markets like once a month.  I know blockchain has evolved to a point where miners are an option now but back it the day without miner's there would not have been any crypto currency.  

The Monero fork went pretty well I'd say, why wouldn't Bulwark follow the same path? Also, if Bulwark is the first coin in the NIST5 family (I don't know any other coin though) to change the algo successfully, then that'll make it more popular. People will talk about it and start researching it and surely some of them investing in it. So that's what I believe would be the best course of action, forking the algo and keeping it ASIC-resistant.

You should care.  It's not going to the moon as long as the miners are still forking it and dumping the price.  Back when there were only 100 masternodes and the ROI was super high, there were plenty of new MN buyers to offset the constant dumping from miners.  Now with over 800 MN's on the wire, and terrible ROI, there aren't enough buyers to counter-balance the dumping.  Then each time the miners fork this coin, the price dumps even more.  It's in the death spiral.  One more un-intended fork and long repair and recovery process, and this coin will be trading for less than 100 Satoshis. 

On the other hand, if they switched to POS things would be different.  People would be encouraged and incentivized to buy more coins on the exchanges and to hold them.  There would be no more miners dumping, and the price would rise. 

It's real simple.  The price is set on the exchanges.  Miner's only interaction with exchanges is to dump.  They pay for their coins through hardware vendors and electric companies.  They don't support the price, they depress the price.  POS and MN owners on the other hand, first BUY coins on the exchange and drive prices up.  There is a big difference between these two.   Then you add in the unintended forks and it's a no-brainer.  One group supports the price, while the other dumps it and forks the chain.

The real supporters have been the long term investors and MN owners.   Miners just mine and dump whatever coin they can make the most profit on at the moment without a care for what damage is done.  It's unfortunate to see the dev's inability to see and understand these factors.

Now is a perfect opportunity to do what is right for the long term success of this coin,  or pander to the miners and ignore the effects.

i don't care re. mining since i don't do that shit.  just buy/trade and run them MN's! so whatever the case, i/we wish to see BWK back on the moon!

Well it looks like you have already decided to pander to the miners and disregard the obvious risk to the stability of the network.  I guess we can just plan on more unintended forks, lost coins, long outages while waiting for sporks/updates or other fixes, and long waits for exchanges to get updates and get on the correct chain.  We obviously think differently.  If it was me, and my coin was becoming a serial forker and there was an obvious and easy solution like POS, then it would have already been done.

If it happens once, people might have some patience.  But now it's happened twice, and you've made it clear that you have no interest in putting a definite stop to it. You are also willfully ignoring how a group with superior hardware can quickly take over the majority of the hash and cause problems.


It's your coin though and you're going to do what you want regardless of what the bigger investors or community wants.  Might as well not even have the vote, it was nothing more than a PR stunt to fool people into believing it was a community project.