Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 1414. (Read 9723748 times)

Have you guys been following all the drama in r/bitcoin from Peter Todd double spending Coinbase to show how zero conf are really insecure. It is a must read for anyone interested in InstantX and how important this Dash feature really is.

Check it out here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/40ejy8/peter_todd_with_my_doublespendpy_tool_with/cytlhh0

There is an interesting conversation with Charlie Lee, as Peter seems to have used the most basic double spending technique against them and kind of exposed coblee.

Ready for Miami ?
Dash will be present (Booth + Keynote Speech) at the TNABC late next week !
(Handout Material is printed, Speech prepared, Meetings arranged, Booth organised and 'decoration' in the works,....)
See you there ?
http://btcmiami.com/speakers

When designing systems, you work to priorities. If you have a good monetary design with the right objectives, it's possible to improve performance and security over time as they are technological dimensions which can be revised without impacting on the primary commercial function of the currency.

On the other hand, if you have a sub-optimal design that compromises monetary priorities for technical ones, it's almost impossible to revise later on. Thats why Dash has got "the right problems" at the moment because it has done the difficult monetary stuff first - the things you just cannot revise later.

You make some great points, to be honest I was super happy with my experience, a smaller amount of around 250 DASH was ready really quick like after 2 hours. I think that was the system mixing the smaller inputs 0.1, 1, 10. The 100 DASH inputs took longer, I guess there is less availability of  100 DASH inputs on the mixing network than of smaller ones.  For this coins their history is now erased forever up to this point and as other people do the same thing from time to time, the supply remains fungible over time. While at the same time we retain the public blockchain and the ability for anyone to audit the system with no counterparties participating in any point of the process. If you think about it in terms of FIAT value I mixed more than 3K USD in one day without having to ask permission or trust anyone with my money. Now I can spend it whenever I want at any point in time.

 I know things can always be improved and they will be improved to make them faster and more efficient, but I like our model a lot I think is better balanced and more compatible with the general crypto ecosystem.

We must also look at this from the perspective of the cryptocurrency as a whole. Note the difference in impact on the coin supply fungibility between what you did and what "the tester" did:

[1] - his actions had no impact whatsoever on bitcoin's fungibility
[2] - your actions had a direct impact whereby in only 24 hours you cycled 1/6000th of the entire Dash supply

You see the thing is - and this goes to the heart of the difference between a peer to peer, decentralised asset and regular money - you didn't really mix "your" coins. You mixed a portion of the supply over which you have temporary control. That portion of the supply happened to be passing through your hands and you were incentivised to mix them, thereby improving the quality of the currency for everyone else, whereas the bitcoin guy wasn't. He was incentivised to sell  

Do you see the difference ?

His actions didn't work out for bitcoin (no fungibility improvement) and didn't work out for monero (he didn't invest for any monetary reason - he just needed a washing machine), but your actions worked out for both you and the Dash supply. That right there is a direct measure of success in terms of monetary design.

It's transparency, fungibility, accountability and value all working in a virtuous cycle. Bitcoin does not have these properties all so precision balanced, monero does not and even ethereum does not.

P.S. Consider what would a sidechain (confidential transactions) user be incentivised to do ? = Take their coins out of circulation and recast them with a different identity - adversely impacting fungibility (by definition) and liquidity (from the bitcoin economy's perspective). Thats because technological priorities were brought to bear on that design instead of monetary ones = fail, again.

thanks for fixing.
monitoring 'dashd'  also run well.

 I just want to report my experience as a user, I mixed around 1100 DASH last week that I wanted to keep for future spending. It took me 24 hours to mix the coins with 4 rounds.  Now they just sit on my wallet for me to spend instantly whenever I want in the future, I had no particular need at the moment I decided to mix them I just wanted to have them ready for later.

 I don't know how people use to send their BTC to tumblers I would never send my private keys to someone else for something like that.  Dash mixing was safe and trust-less, I think it works as designed and I had a good user experience. It is designed for the user to mix ahead of time and keep a private balance on their wallet for future spending, for that, it works great.

I think there may be specific use cases in which a different solution might be a better fit, although I can't think of anything at the moment. So be it this is just one of our features and I find it to be really convenient for any general user needs.

Time will tell what coins bring more overall value and are able to grow their user bases by having the right combination of added value features and ease of use.

well that's what the guy said on his test "monero ~ 2 – 24 hours". either way the test has so many different variables (centralized web wallets vs official GUI wallets, syncing from scratch, ahead of time mixing, instant transactions etc etc etc) that it's like comparing apples to oranges.

i would say if you want to laundry/mix a "small amount" of btc the fastest "on the fly" way to do it would be using shapeshift with bytecoin. not sure how much shapeshift lets you send but with the low market cap of bytecoin (the highest marketcap cryptonote coin) it could cost you a lot and move the market too much to be useful except for very small amounts.

i forgot to change my setting from 4 rounds to 2 rounds so i will start fresh and do it again tomorrow when i have more time.

Yes, IMO you got JR's "lesson" exactly right.

I didn't write the tweet, JR did.  I didn't even write a single word of commentary on it, yet somehow my alleged biographical details are far more (to the point of exclusion) important than the content of the tweet?   

Am I the only one reminded of Fundamentalist Young Earth Creationists calling evolution experts Godless Devil Worshipers, in order to avoid an inconveniently factual debate about biology and objective reality?

How do you feel about the Dash community's propensity to attack the messenger and speculate about motivations, in order to deflect from (particularly in this case) overwhelmingly valid criticism/advice?

Justus even pointed out those who resent the requirement to continually demonstrate other-than-Karpeles potential are those most likely to Gox.

Would you agree this observation is a spot-on critique of the incredibly resentful, cult enforcement analogue behaviour we've seen here?

Monero doesn't take 24 hours to sync from scratch. There have been several reports of syncing from scratch within the hour with an SSD on a decent pc with decend bandwith. HDD takes a bit longer, most reports were around 4-6 hours to sync from scratch.

The centralized web wallet only takes a few minutes to sync.

Don't waste your time. Read this instead.

That kind of petty race is a war Dash does not have to win right now. It competes on monetary properties, not technological ones. The guy wasn't investing to hold, buy goods, earn interest or trade. He was using it as a laundry.

A more apt comparison (monetarily) is how long it takes to make the entire bitcoin supply untraceable with no loss of transparency as far as the protocol is concerned.

The global fungibility of the supply is far more important than the traceability of any particular wallet because that characteristic then matures into an inherent property of the monetary medium. i.e. even at the point someone takes ownership of a holding they know it has a fungible (low traceability) pedigree. The fact that they can additionally target the particular part of the supply that they control is just icing on the cake. (i.e. it's a bonus feature over and above what you usually get with regular, anonymous 'cash'    ).

Dash will win that war (the "real one") hands down.

ok i just got full confirmation at a fresh address and clicked start darksend mixing at 4:04

it shows you your "darksend balance" available to be sent before the total balance is 100% complete.
plus, once it's mixed you don't have to wait 10 min like with monero. you can send it instantly with instantX. so like i said it's like comparing apples to oranges.

for on the fly mixing monero may be faster we'll see. but i think he was using a centralized monero web wallet right?

i'm gonna do 2 rounds since on the fly speed is what he is measuring. although if he had to sync both wallets from the start it looks like he said monero takes 24 hours and DASH takes 1-2 hours. he says 2-24 hours but i think that is with a centralized web wallet. once again apples to oranges.

The entire rest of the blog is plastered with Monero entries. And lately "Slow DarkSend" has been the trolls main talking point. What a coincidence. Not.

Staged hit piece combined with fundamental ignorance on how DarkSend actually works.

Queue "Smoothie - Has It Sent Yet"

i sent my coins to a fresh address so i will need to wait for it to confirm.
as soon as i get 6 confirmations i will start the test.

edit: still waiting, i should have sent it instantX 

I think it's a fair assessment given what the guy was trying to do (unless you think he's lying about the times). If the wallet interface reports a fractional mixing progress then users are justified in considering their holdings "unmixed" if that indicator is not at 100%.

just started mixing at 3:33pm

what a joke. that's like comparing apples to oranges.
somebody should tell that guy you don't have to wait for it to complete 100% before  having a usable darksend balance.
i did not know that it took ~ 10 minutes to send a monero transaction though.

i'm going to do my own test right now and see how long it takes me to mix 4 rounds and send it.

One mistake there in the deposit address and how it actually works.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but the deposit addresses are hot wallets for the exchange.  Even though a deposit address is unique to an individual, the funds are transferred off into other wallets from that address.  So if you deposit 5 btc to address x, and then proceed to send 2 btc to another address, the source of the transfer most likely won't be address x, but another hot wallet.  I believe most exchanges operate this way.  When someone else from the exchange sends 5 btc, it may actually come from your deposit address. 

Someone please double check I'm posting the correct information.  Please expand also if needed.

fixed.  https://github.com/moocowmoo/masternode_conf_check/commit/397606746125dfafb15b3ff70d8811264de12411