[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 1430.

BusterNutBag

member

Activity: 96

Merit: 10

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 03:09:58 PM

Quote from: BusterNutBag on January 06, 2016, 03:03:58 PM

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 02:57:55 PM

I am a skeptical person, and if I don't know a person, I assume they are a scammer, trying to take my money...

I assume every proposal is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to give them time to prove their innocence before I vote to give them my money.

ugh - your NOT giving away YOUR money - ugh

You sure you know how this works?

I view it as my money in the same way as I view how the federal government spends my taxes as my money... the 10% budget is essentially a tax, right?

TAX - defined

a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.

If it was a TAX - Evan would get all the monies and then would have to distribute those funds

This is BY NO MEANS a TAX

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Solarminer on January 06, 2016, 03:29:27 PM

Incorrect! We spent hours and hours to get a budget that didn't just tax the system.

#1. A proposal needs to be voted on by at least 10% of the votes to get accepted.
#2. If there are no proposals or less than what would fill the 10% allocated block rewards that amount of dash are not created. Not burned. Just not created. (This is a genius Evan idea!)

So if there are are a bunch of 0 value proposals. They will get low votes/no votes and will not get accepted. Only valuable proposals get accepted and funded.

Contrast this with a taxing system. A certain % is taken out, even if not needed. Then it is allocated in some way, usually to use all of it up even if not on useful things. This is where the wasteful spending comes in.

Now your next comment you are about to make is that this "wastes" dash and will cause the dash creation rate to change. When less coins are created the value of existing dash goes up. So it is not "wasting" dash funds by not creating them, just not diluting the value of current dash holders.

Regardless of whether the entire 10% is spent, it is still a tax. If its not all spent, then the system is only being taxed 5% or 8% instead of 10%, but its still a tax

Solarminer

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 502

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 03:09:58 PM

Quote from: BusterNutBag on January 06, 2016, 03:03:58 PM

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 02:57:55 PM

I am a skeptical person, and if I don't know a person, I assume they are a scammer, trying to take my money...

I assume every proposal is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to give them time to prove their innocence before I vote to give them my money.

ugh - your NOT giving away YOUR money - ugh

You sure you know how this works?

I view it as my money in the same way as I view how the federal government spends my taxes as my money... the 10% budget is essentially a tax, right?

Incorrect! We spent hours and hours to get a budget that didn't just tax the system.

#1. A proposal needs to be voted on by at least 10% of the votes to get accepted.
#2. If there are no proposals or less than what would fill the 10% allocated block rewards that amount of dash are not created. Not burned. Just not created. (This is a genius Evan idea!)

So if there are are a bunch of 0 value proposals. They will get low votes/no votes and will not get accepted. Only valuable proposals get accepted and funded.

Contrast this with a taxing system. A certain % is taken out, even if not needed. Then it is allocated in some way, usually to use all of it up even if not on useful things. This is where the wasteful spending comes in.

Now your next comment you are about to make is that this "wastes" dash and will cause the dash creation rate to change. When less coins are created the value of existing dash goes up. So it is not "wasting" dash funds by not creating them, just not diluting the value of current dash holders.

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

What happened to that fine beverage Duff? Wink

Interesting idea... I wonder if you could add an ID scanner to verify age, and only sell the Duff to 21 and older? Replace a bartender with a vending machine? (probably not legal)

Solarminer

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 502

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 03:12:45 PM

Quote from: MasterMined710 on January 06, 2016, 03:08:16 PM

Quote from: Solarminer on January 06, 2016, 12:37:08 PM

Instantx Vending Machine Vote Results - Day 1

Coke 0.006 DASH
Cherry Coke 0.021 DASH
Dr Pepper 4.001 DASH
Pepsi 0 DASH
7up 0.002 DASH
Sprite 0.001 DASH
Mt Drew 4.001 DASH
Mello Yellow 0 DASH
Diet Cola 0.002 DASH
Rootbeer 0.011 DASH
Mineral Water 0.64117432 DASH

I am surprised mineral water is in the top 3.

Keep the votes coming by sending your .001 Dash for your 3 choices here:

Coke: XcoKEbG1jeHKitW4HAnrNKgrofWQe9x26a
Cherry Coke: XcCoKeARJarL8VPRrwmnvNeF1nWxWBCoKK
Dr Pepper: XdrPEPRnsDXSMxWdXs3oK7PAC8Mj5HtXwg
Pepsi: XpEPSiWWjQjKZ3kGaMxjE7uc3BJDH26UMk
7up: XsEvuPpw6o4JiRApE3THBEcuCqjqES2Aho
Sprite: XsPrite2xPLbYGnLarcRa75FC3pYrKZrwQ
Mt Dew: XmTdEW1HAaWqDdoWHpo9tyehgmHt3AcF5y
MelloYello: XmYELq3ozZism9DgzHP3kNoyjtFjT7hqXX
Diet Cola: XdiEtmWyuEAaEKaD9wtfwvfPidLmQrTkh1
Rootbeer: Xroot4dLh7s8UeGsXjpLVd5K7WZU8GD7Qj
Mineral Water: XminwjYtcBwEGTohxZKLZkyooRyEWuQKPQ

i voted for water because not everyone drinks cola. we need a coke or Pepsi to be in there because they are popular with most people. i would love to see the real sugar Pepsi and others if available.

How about something non-soda, like Hawaiian Punch, or orange juice?

There are probably over 100 beverages available and it isn't possible to put them all in a vote. If there are any unique requests, feel free to post your three in the dashtalk thread and I will count manually.

https://dashtalk.org/threads/soda-vote-for-instantx-soda-machine-in-miami.7567/#post-78069

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: MasterMined710 on January 06, 2016, 03:08:16 PM

Quote from: Solarminer on January 06, 2016, 12:37:08 PM

Instantx Vending Machine Vote Results - Day 1

Coke 0.006 DASH
Cherry Coke 0.021 DASH
Dr Pepper 4.001 DASH
Pepsi 0 DASH
7up 0.002 DASH
Sprite 0.001 DASH
Mt Drew 4.001 DASH
Mello Yellow 0 DASH
Diet Cola 0.002 DASH
Rootbeer 0.011 DASH
Mineral Water 0.64117432 DASH

I am surprised mineral water is in the top 3.

Keep the votes coming by sending your .001 Dash for your 3 choices here:

Coke: XcoKEbG1jeHKitW4HAnrNKgrofWQe9x26a
Cherry Coke: XcCoKeARJarL8VPRrwmnvNeF1nWxWBCoKK
Dr Pepper: XdrPEPRnsDXSMxWdXs3oK7PAC8Mj5HtXwg
Pepsi: XpEPSiWWjQjKZ3kGaMxjE7uc3BJDH26UMk
7up: XsEvuPpw6o4JiRApE3THBEcuCqjqES2Aho
Sprite: XsPrite2xPLbYGnLarcRa75FC3pYrKZrwQ
Mt Dew: XmTdEW1HAaWqDdoWHpo9tyehgmHt3AcF5y
MelloYello: XmYELq3ozZism9DgzHP3kNoyjtFjT7hqXX
Diet Cola: XdiEtmWyuEAaEKaD9wtfwvfPidLmQrTkh1
Rootbeer: Xroot4dLh7s8UeGsXjpLVd5K7WZU8GD7Qj
Mineral Water: XminwjYtcBwEGTohxZKLZkyooRyEWuQKPQ

i voted for water because not everyone drinks cola. we need a coke or Pepsi to be in there because they are popular with most people. i would love to see the real sugar Pepsi and others if available.

How about something else non-soda, like Hawaiian Punch, or orange juice?

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: BusterNutBag on January 06, 2016, 03:03:58 PM

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 02:57:55 PM

I am a skeptical person, and if I don't know a person, I assume they are a scammer, trying to take my money...

I assume every proposal is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to give them time to prove their innocence before I vote to give them my money.

ugh - your NOT giving away YOUR money - ugh

You sure you know how this works?

I view it as my money in the same way as I view how the federal government spends my taxes as my money... the 10% budget is essentially a tax, right?

MasterMined710

legendary

Activity: 1182

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Solarminer on January 06, 2016, 12:37:08 PM

Instantx Vending Machine Vote Results - Day 1

Coke 0.006 DASH
Cherry Coke 0.021 DASH
Dr Pepper 4.001 DASH
Pepsi 0 DASH
7up 0.002 DASH
Sprite 0.001 DASH
Mt Drew 4.001 DASH
Mello Yellow 0 DASH
Diet Cola 0.002 DASH
Rootbeer 0.011 DASH
Mineral Water 0.64117432 DASH

I am surprised mineral water is in the top 3.

Keep the votes coming by sending your .001 Dash for your 3 choices here:

Coke: XcoKEbG1jeHKitW4HAnrNKgrofWQe9x26a
Cherry Coke: XcCoKeARJarL8VPRrwmnvNeF1nWxWBCoKK
Dr Pepper: XdrPEPRnsDXSMxWdXs3oK7PAC8Mj5HtXwg
Pepsi: XpEPSiWWjQjKZ3kGaMxjE7uc3BJDH26UMk
7up: XsEvuPpw6o4JiRApE3THBEcuCqjqES2Aho
Sprite: XsPrite2xPLbYGnLarcRa75FC3pYrKZrwQ
Mt Dew: XmTdEW1HAaWqDdoWHpo9tyehgmHt3AcF5y
MelloYello: XmYELq3ozZism9DgzHP3kNoyjtFjT7hqXX
Diet Cola: XdiEtmWyuEAaEKaD9wtfwvfPidLmQrTkh1
Rootbeer: Xroot4dLh7s8UeGsXjpLVd5K7WZU8GD7Qj
Mineral Water: XminwjYtcBwEGTohxZKLZkyooRyEWuQKPQ

i voted for water because not everyone drinks cola. we need a coke or Pepsi to be in there because they are popular with most people. i would love to see the real sugar Pepsi and others if available.

BusterNutBag

member

Activity: 96

Merit: 10

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 02:57:55 PM

I am a skeptical person, and if I don't know a person, I assume they are a scammer, trying to take my money...

I assume every proposal is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to give them time to prove their innocence before I vote to give them my money.

ugh - your NOT giving away YOUR money - ugh

You sure you know how this works?

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

I am a skeptical person, and if I don't know a person, I assume they are a scammer, trying to take my money...

I assume every proposal is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to give them time to prove their innocence before I vote to give them my money.

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: oaxaca on January 06, 2016, 02:39:54 PM

Being a Masternode owner is a responsibility, not a right. If you shirk your responsibilities and just want to sit back and watch the odd payment come in, you forfeit your right to complain. Masternode owners are an integral part of a healthy ecosystem. It is their job to maintain the health and well being of the network. This involves paying attention.

I'm talking about wanting to participate in the discussion, not sit back, thanks... Wink

I don't want it to be a 24/7 burden, and I would like to participate before the voting ends... that's all I'm asking

oaxaca

hero member

Activity: 671

Merit: 500

Being a Masternode owner is a responsibility, not a right. If you shirk your responsibilities and just want to sit back and watch the odd payment come in, you forfeit your right to complain. Masternode owners are an integral part of a healthy ecosystem. It is their job to maintain the health and well being of the network. This involves paying attention.

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: oaxaca on January 06, 2016, 02:33:55 PM

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 02:27:14 PM

I just want to limit the possibility of fishy proposals getting passed in the dark of the night...

Or, a proposal being misrepresented, and without discussion about it, nobody will know...

Welcome to the fascinating world of Democracy.

Exactly my point... I've seen what a travesty the US gov makes of 'democracy' (read: oligarchy in republic clothing)... I'd like to avoid that

I don't see why anyone would be in such a rush to get funded they can't wait 30 days... seems like that should never happen

oaxaca

hero member

Activity: 671

Merit: 500

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 02:27:14 PM

I just want to limit the possibility of fishy proposals getting passed in the dark of the night...

Or, a proposal being misrepresented, and without discussion about it, nobody will know...

Welcome to the fascinating world of Democracy.

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: oaxaca on January 06, 2016, 02:15:59 PM

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 11:29:58 AM

A prime example is the soda machine... I would like to know who ends up owning this machine that the community is paying for... How much they plan to charge, and what they play to do with any proceeds from soda sales... this is important stuff if you want me to buy you a soda machine... I want to know what you are planning to do with my money...

The costs of building and transporting the machine are what was covered by the proposal. It is what is known as a loss leader. You aren't going to make any money giving away 1 DASH paper wallets and then charging 0.4 DASH for a soda.

This is about publicly demonstrating several important features of DASH that Bitcoin cannot begin to implement:
Instant secured transactions,
Community funding of community approved projects,
Being ready for retail adoption, etc.

The code will be available for anybody who wants to start a business in the future using this approach.

Just wait for a flood of youtube, twitter, blogs, and other social media talking about this in a couple of weeks. You can't buy that kind of publicity for 590 DASH.

I didn't mean to call out that proposal, just using it as an example.

I like the soda machine proposal, the coding involved, etc. I think its great for publicity, and getting a codebase on github for real-world usage, that's all great.

I just want to limit the possibility of fishy proposals getting passed in the dark of the night...

Or, a proposal being misrepresented, and without discussion about it, nobody will know...

oaxaca

hero member

Activity: 671

Merit: 500

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 11:29:58 AM

A prime example is the soda machine... I would like to know who ends up owning this machine that the community is paying for... How much they plan to charge, and what they play to do with any proceeds from soda sales... this is important stuff if you want me to buy you a soda machine... I want to know what you are planning to do with my money...

The costs of building and transporting the machine are what was covered by the proposal. It is what is known as a loss leader. You aren't going to make any money giving away 1 DASH paper wallets and then charging 0.4 DASH for a soda.

This is about publicly demonstrating several important features of DASH that Bitcoin cannot begin to implement:
Instant secured transactions,
Community funding of community approved projects,
Being ready for retail adoption, etc.

The code will be available for anybody who wants to start a business in the future using this approach.

Just wait for a flood of youtube, twitter, blogs, and other social media talking about this in a couple of weeks. You can't buy that kind of publicity for 590 DASH.

Melech

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: eduffield on January 06, 2016, 01:23:13 PM

...imagine we have 50 proposals in the system up for voting and all of the ones getting paid have more than 20-30% of the networks support. As the network grows it should get much harder to get funded.

Which is another reason the voting period should be extended...

If I have 50 proposals to choose from, I am going to have 500 questions...

As for the 10% rule, I don't want to see something get pushed through in only a day unless it has unanimous support

valentino008

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: Solarminer on January 06, 2016, 01:04:14 PM

Quote from: valentino008 on January 06, 2016, 12:58:03 PM

Hi,

I need some advice from you members,my wallet does not sync and i want to send some coins to someone,can i do this without lossing my coins because my wallet is not fully synced? Huh

I need urgent help,many thanks in advance!

Yep, standard should be no problem. An IX you may need the masternodes to sync.

Thx!it worked.

Solarminer

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 502

Quote from: eduffield on January 06, 2016, 01:23:13 PM

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 01:19:03 PM

Quote from: eduffield on January 06, 2016, 12:06:46 PM

No, I mean, that seems like it should belong in our proposal system bylaws. The protocol is a place for stopping exploits. It should remain as flexible as possible.

The bylaws would say something to the effect of "Proposal submission deadline for the budget is 7 days before the next payout date, to allow a reasonable amount of time to discuss and debate new entries. " In the case where a person goes against the bylaws, the network would vote them down automatically.

Fair enough, but I feel like something needs to be tweaked a bit. I have already seen a few votes come and go without a chance to vote on them. I feel like it is over too quickly.

For something like a soda machine, which will remain someone's personal property, I feel like discussion is required.

I am also skeptical about who is on the receiving end of these expenses... I assume whoever put up that proposal is doing the graphics design, and keep the $400 +$500 travel expenses. How much more of the $2000 are they keeping?

These are the types of things I would like time to discuss before voting... but, I also don't want to troll forum(s) 24/7 to make sure I don't miss my chance...

Quote from: Solarminer on January 06, 2016, 12:27:26 PM

I think instead of requiring a waiting period we just get the amount of votes needed right. 10% seems too low to me and I would suggest 20% for low budget projects and 30% for higher budget projects. Either way the system is fair. A bad proposal will not get in if has more no votes than 10% of the yes votes(20% yes/11% no).

Perhaps this will help extend the voting period?

I'm not sure of the best solution, but I would appreciate it being looked into, thanks.

I would also say the 10% rule is fair, eventually there just simply won't be enough money to go around. The amount of support you need to get paid is actually more than the weakest proposal in the system. This is on purpose, imagine we have 50 proposals in the system up for voting and all of the ones getting paid have more than 20-30% of the networks support. As the network grows it should get much harder to get funded.

You make a good point here with 50 proposals. You will also have a thinning out of votes per proposal as there are more proposals and more competition.

Is this the first round of budgets with 3rd party proposals going through like the DailyDecrypt? I think that is a big step for Dash!

eduffield

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1036

Dash Developer

Quote from: Melech on January 06, 2016, 01:19:03 PM

Quote from: eduffield on January 06, 2016, 12:06:46 PM

No, I mean, that seems like it should belong in our proposal system bylaws. The protocol is a place for stopping exploits. It should remain as flexible as possible.

The bylaws would say something to the effect of "Proposal submission deadline for the budget is 7 days before the next payout date, to allow a reasonable amount of time to discuss and debate new entries. " In the case where a person goes against the bylaws, the network would vote them down automatically.

Fair enough, but I feel like something needs to be tweaked a bit. I have already seen a few votes come and go without a chance to vote on them. I feel like it is over too quickly.

For something like a soda machine, which will remain someone's personal property, I feel like discussion is required.

I am also skeptical about who is on the receiving end of these expenses... I assume whoever put up that proposal is doing the graphics design, and keep the $400 +$500 travel expenses. How much more of the $2000 are they keeping?

These are the types of things I would like time to discuss before voting... but, I also don't want to troll forum(s) 24/7 to make sure I don't miss my chance...

Quote from: Solarminer on January 06, 2016, 12:27:26 PM

I think instead of requiring a waiting period we just get the amount of votes needed right. 10% seems too low to me and I would suggest 20% for low budget projects and 30% for higher budget projects. Either way the system is fair. A bad proposal will not get in if has more no votes than 10% of the yes votes(20% yes/11% no).

Perhaps this will help extend the voting period?

I'm not sure of the best solution, but I would appreciate it being looked into, thanks.

I would also say the 10% rule is fair, eventually there just simply won't be enough money to go around. The amount of support you need to get paid is actually more than the weakest proposal in the system. This is on purpose, imagine we have 50 proposals in the system up for voting and all of the ones getting paid have more than 20-30% of the networks support. As the network grows it should get much harder to get funded.

Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 1430. (Read 9723768 times)