Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 22. (Read 9723768 times)

https://skr.sh/sBOI5wrgq3S?a
https://skr.sh/sBPkVaHdjtO?a
https://skr.sh/sBPAoBIIbUC?a

I wrote to you half a month ago and you haven't fixed anything.
The installation files contain VIRUSES!

Go back and have a look at this post. Halfway down it I cite two distinct analytical models (perspectives) on the business model of mining. If you're seeing miners as passing a "cost" onto investors then you've got the wrong one of those two models in your head. You're thinking of things from the perspective of the "widget production model" which is why you'll keep making misplaced valuations and judgement calls about what's good for the asset.

We're not trying to produce coins as cheaply as possibly, avoiding passing "costs" onto the customer as you would do if you were making and selling gearboxes or something. Rather we're trying to store as much value in a coin as possible. If you look at this with a "widget production model" economics head on, it will look like the coins are 'too expensive' and we need to make them 'cheaper'.

That's the defective analysis that informed the "we don't need all this hashrate" insanity. Also, we're not trying to "sell less coins". Since when did low volume become a priority ? If mined coins "hit the market" it's because it was viable to mine. If it was viable to mine it's because there was demand for it in the secondary market. We WANT those coins to be supplied and get into circulation, and it doesn't hurt the price AS LONG as there is a primary market buy side to balance the secondary market sell side.

 • this IS the case with a mined coin
 • it ISN'T the case with a masternode coin

If you want to look at it from a double-entry bookkeeping perspective, then a distinction there is made between A: a cost and B: an investment. The difference, in accounting terms, is that:

A: reduces profits on sales
B: moves value around the balance sheet

So you have to be very sure which model you're dealing with because of you're not utterly clear about it and get it wrong you'll have the OPPOSITE effect to the desired outcome on every performance metric. For example, when a Dash investor at the exchange spends $1000 dollars on Dash, they want to know that the Dash COST their counterparty as near as dammit what they're paying for it. Otherwise their "investment" is simply going towards the profit being made by the trader.

This is what happens with masternode coins. The investor IS having a cost passed onto them but it's the cost of the masternode's profit margin, not the cost of extracting the coin from the chain. It's the latter that collateralises the investor's capital remember. Therefore masternode margins beyond the measurable added value (cost of running a node) do not benefit the investor AT ALL in book-value terms. Whereas with a mined coin, that cost is collateralised by a financially quantifiable increase in scarcity.

============================
P.S. Just remember this in case the message still isn't getting through.

Masternode rewards are NOTHING unless the marketcap increases. They're paid out of coin supply growth, not external revenue, so if the marketcap doesn't increase then all you're doing is slicing up a carrot and telling the holder they've got "more carrots now" just because you sliced it into smaller peices. Note that this is not the case with a mined coin because the miner adds value to the coin by being forced to bid for it. That value DOES come from an external source and that's the role of hashrate - to mediate that value FROM the external source INTO the blockchain.

Who do think those costs get passed onto?  The point you make is valid, the MNOs get paid well in excess of their immediate costs, however, this is an advantage because it means they are not forced to sell, they can HODL if they choose and sell later for more.  Miners, OTOH are a constant source of sell pressure because their business is more competitive and thus marginal, they do not have the luxury of holding back coins.

Dash would do well improving the game theory of its network to incentivise holding the coins for longer, if we can delay gratification (selling) we can create a supply void in the short term and help price improve.

That's not selling, it's "brokering". Miners acquire their coin at a cost.

But you never did seem to get that distinction (and neither did many of your co-voters) which is why we're now in this position, having hobbled our most competitive protocol feature of all.

A wise sage once said:

"There is no greater cancer to the marketcap of a digital asset than the asymmetric profitability of its first coin holders"

In the same way that an efficient microchip manufacturer can collapse prices by being more profitable at a lower price, so the masternodes can tank the market by being more profitable than miners at a lower coin price. Then difficulty adjustments make that change permanent and the cycle starts again, leading to a long term ranking collapse such as the one we've seen go on for a couple of years now.

This helps no-one because in the long term, masternodes are simply digging their own grave by devaluing their collateral. It doesn't encourage investment in masternodes either because outside investors look at this and are at least as concerned with capital gain on their collateral as they are with potential rewards. If the reward level is beyond optimal such that it results in a capital loss rather than a gain (when compared against competing, fully mined options) then we will see no net reduction in "circulating supply", even in the limited context of the flawed economic definition currently governing Dash's protocol.

The solution is to target a balanced profitability strategy that sustains a high coin price rather than a high stream of zero-value coins that simply get dumped on markets with no compensating investment in the primary supply (as is required of the pure mining business model).

It's not about what is fair, I just don't see any better use of those coins, other than paying people to hold them. :shrug:

You suggest that miners hold coins, but all the on chain evidence is such that miners sell the coins as they arrive.  In Dash we have one trick and that is to incentivise the accumulation of coins by paying the inflation to the buyers, seems like a great idea to me.  Heck, if we look at the 2017 bull run, we can see just how well that trick worked, we took Dash all the way to $1600.  By paying more to the holders, particularly those that make a commitment to Dash, we can once again see steady price improvements.

Sure. If the ranking plunge isn't going fast enough for you then be my guest.

It's only fair that masternodes should be gifted ever more of the new supply to compensate for their devaluing collateral "network contributions".

That's a good point, do you think we should allocate more of the block reward to the masternode owners to improve the ROI?

Descending smoothly.

It'll only take 2 years of masternode rewards to get back to an ROI of zero if you invested $USD 24 hours ago

No worries - just measure your ROI in Dash and you'll get 6% always !

Dash hasn't been able to exploit its comparative advantage for a long time.

Other currencies with hardly any funding, and with a similar idea, have positioned themselves and achieved a critical mass of users and holders.

Meanwhile Dash did not know at first how to manage the funds in his first big run bull.

Imagine what can be done with a market price of more than $ 1000 per Dash, if the master nodes vote consistently.

I proposed years ago on these same pages, when there were dozens of daily users and this forum was very followed, create a reserve fund in gold, or stable currency, or even burn Dash when no round of financing is worth it, nobody listened, and It was spent financing a platform for the purchase of cannabis that was a waste of time and money.

Then, I proposed that there was an option in the wallet to convert Dash into a stable coin directly with the wallet without going to any exchange and leaving the commissions there.

People laughed and said that Dash was better than a stable coin.

Finally I said more than a year ago, that Dash would lose the top 100 when we were in the 30th position ... and nobody believed me.


In this life there are two ways to learn.

1-of the errors of others

2-of the own errors.


We have always chosen point 2. I hope that when we are "gone" and the DCG has drained the entire budget over and over again, the nodes that still survive will understand what is truly a priority.

these days a new record downward for many years.

Less than 10K Dash transactions per day.

Neither black friday, nor Christmas, nor direct dash manage to wake up the "beast"

All the best.

That is my view too and it hurts to see Dash dying more and more.
I really liked the simplicity of the wallet and hosting a full node is no issue with some HD/SDD space and startup speed etc and transaction are done fast and easy with low fee. What could be better?

Have you ever tryed to host a full ETH node? I did and I learned not to do that ever anymore.
Same but a bit better is BTC. You can still host a full node but you will see that it is unusable for short and sweet payments.

In fact a few years ago I have abandoned both BTC and ETH and have hoped I can do all transaction with DASH in the future.
Turns out that was a mistake.

Had to go back to BTC and ETH because it became obvious that this will gain in values and DASH is on the way down. So I did when I found a solution other than hosting a node by myself.

The only way out for DASH is to make it to be needed for something.

There seems to be no other incentive anymore to have DASH than hopeing for value gain and MN interests. The first is questionable and the later is fine as long as DASH can hold values which is questionable since there are no other incentives to have DASH.

Not a good base for giveing something value.

In order to give it value you have to have a market you can buy things with DASH only. That's a bit my view.

I don't know if I'm an idiot or I'm not. I can't judge myself. What I do know is that I have quite a bit of Dash. And what I repeat, is that simply with 1 Dash anyone can get a 6.5% return thanks to a private company, and not DCG, what do you not understand?

There are poor people in Venezuela, and tell me how it has served to finance thousands of dollars, if nobody wants to sustain dash, and everyone runs to exchange it for dollars.

Check out direct dash, they sell it like the revolution, and we barely manage 13K Dash transactions per day. If it was really a revolution, it would be used 100 times more. Even comparing today with a year ago, the Dash network moves almost half of daily transactions.

I don't buy his prescription, poor people won't make Dash great. How poor people have not made Tesla great, or Microsoft, or BTC.

Poor people always go after rich people, in Russia, in the Congo, or in Venezuela. So look for the big strong hands you hold Dash, and the rest comes by itself.

I am telling you this from 30 years of experience in international markets.

losing 250 nodes in 90 days and being so far from our ATH, it should show us the way

He has a leech extracting $ 400,000 a month. How many programmers in Russia would work full time for that money?

Well, DCG spends it in a month but we hardly see great progress in this project for years.

Dash Core Group November 26th Funding Proposals
DCG is submitting 3 funding proposals for the budget cycle that pays out November 26th:
1) DCG Compensation: 2,324 Dash per month (currently in month 1/3)
2) DCG Business Development: 321 Dash (currently in month 1/3)
3) DCG Marketing: 321 Dash (currently in month 1/3)


All the best

You are a maddened idiot, full of money and luxury!
I see poor people in Russia every day, there are millions of them!
But everyone asks about cryptocurrency and is ready to buy little by little, get acquainted, try and learn.
You cannot find buyers for 1000 coins! FULL FAILURE !!! And no action!
And you don't want to look for buyers for 10 or 100 coins. They seem poor to you and not interesting.
And you absolutely do not understand that there are millions of them, the poor !!!
1,000,000 x 10 = 10,000,000 DASH
We have an expression: The chicken pecks by the grain, but ate the whole bag of grain.

Get many people from all over the world to buy 1 DASH and people will tell each other. They will want to buy 10 more coins, and some even 100.

Change the way people feel.
Constantly cheaper shit in the wallet, the magical feeling of owning valuable gold, of which there are only 18,900,000 and each has not much, but it is steadily becoming more expensive.
People will be happy and will talk to friends and write about it on the Internet.

But unfortunately, so far, people speak the worst words about DASH and dream of getting rid of it.

looking to fork Dash and create Nvisible aka "Nvisible Cash". Who wants to help me?

What you propose has had to come a private company to offer it as crowdnode has been. DCG has had years to offer a stacking portfolio and has focused on spending hundreds of thousands of dollars each cycle, to have practically the same as years ago.

I think DCG should disappear from the scene as a representative of this project. The master nodes should stop financing their excesses and focus on financing projects of valid people that demonstrate growth and value for the Dash network.

As for Dash being used by poor people ... don't be delusional. Poor people won't buy 10 Dash if they don't see it used everywhere by the rich.

Why don't people use rubles at the global level, however they do use dollars. Well, because it is the currency of power.

BTC and ETH are the crypto currencies of power, not of poor people. However poor people want to have BTC and ETH not Dash.

Real global advertising, not car rental ads.

All the best

Your imperial majesty is in 75th place. I spit.
Be simpler and people will be drawn to you.

If 1,000,000 poor people buy 10 DASH each, the price will be much higher.
Communicate to 1,000,000 people that they need and desperately need a DASH coin. Not any other! Only the best DASH coin !!!

In the world, the virus is a pandemic, money is saved.
But you want a lot at once. MN 1000 are leaving you !!!
Reduce greed! Greed is the path to poverty.
SO CHANGE ADD masternode 500 and 250.
for 500 - 3%, for 250 - 1.5% Create curiosity, interest! Let it be such a game and people learn and try.
But instead, you let other services earn.

You don't have to convince me of anything.

I've been in the crypto markets since 2012 and have tried almost everything.

Today I had to make a transaction with ETH and I finally canceled it, because it cost me a $ 25 commission for moving $ 300.

I know perfectly well that Dash is the best there is for payments, and its main quality, which others boast but do not offer, is security, speed, and decentralization.

There will be faster currencies possibly, with more TPS, with very beautiful wallets, with smart contracts, with online chats ...

I am not looking for any of that, I am looking for the safest and cheapest and most decentralized network.

Simple.

Anyway, I reiterate that you do not expect DCG to remain holding their Dash if for example the price drops to $ 20 for years ... they will walk away, and the holders will eat your bad decisions.

As for marketing ... it is not about putting posters on cars, nobody looks at that. It was done years ago with the advertising of the airlines and it was worth nothing.

What is worth, is for example seeing Matt Damon or Lady Gaga, using their Dash wallet to buy a hamburger or buy a pair of sneakers.

understands?

Car marketing is fine for advertising a locksmith, but not a global project like Dash,

Are we kidding or what's wrong?

Greetings and I appreciate the response.

There is a lot to unpack here and I don't want to miss the opportunity to talk about DASH clearly one of my favourite assets at the moment. 


Alexey45, Yes!  I am glad you mentioned this.  I wonder, are you aware of the Dash Marketing Hub (DMH)  It is a way that community members with ideas and actions can get involved with marketing Dash!  This is in addition to DCG's marketing which has so far put toppers on ride sharing cars in Miami.  The DMH is a great way for people with ideas on marketing Dash to get paid for doing some work for us!  Please visit https://trello.com/b/kk4LcqJY/dash-marketing-hub to learn more.  In essence you can post a concept to the board, eg Develop a Russian speaking social group which creates youtube videos in Russian and hosts meetups and the like!  This if approved can win you some Dash and if you go ahead and create and grow that group you could claim the bounty too!  Did you know that Dash has several Russian devs?  Dash seems to be generally liked in Russia and I think we can grow awareness there too, can you help?





Pang, we had some large elderly whales sell everything recently, it has given price resistance from moving up.  Now for the good news, those old coins which were bought for less than $15 have now got a new price tag on them - $200. The people that bought them value them far more than the sellers did and likely won't sell until profit is reached.  Also, did you know that when nodes sell the ROI in Dash increases?  This means, those masternodes that remain get paid more and this makes buying a Dash Masternode more alluring to people looking to invest in the space.  In other words, Dash is a self rectifying system, this some of the hidden genius of Evan Duffield!


Actually, this is quite false!  DCG have advised us that they have 12 months of reserve to pay for ALL developers in case of catastrophe.  That means, if price fell to zero and stayed there for 12 months they can pay everyone.  Their current break even price is $140.  Thus, if price falls to $70 and stays there for 2 years, they will be broke.  Now you understand, DCG cannot go broke again, because they have the reserves to see the bear market through.  Good question though !

It is clear that incorrect decisions are being made in some respects.

Masternodes have dropped by more than 200 in three months.

Daily transactions, even promoting dash direct, have dropped during 2020 from an average of 25,000 to around 13,000

The capitalization with respect to BTC has been greatly affected compared to similar currencies such as LTC, Doge, even Zcash or even BCH

The market is clearly telling us that it is not interested in things as they are being done.

It is evident that either there is a change of course or this will be a project that in the long term will be reduced to use among a few friends.

When the crypto winter begins and BTC retreats 50% from its new ATHs, it is very possible that Dash will do it 80%, and that would destroy its budget, and possibly not a handful of programmers will be able to pay. is that what we want?


Greetings and good luck.

Raise the difficulty.
Create a scarcity.
Make a PR action, hype.
Make Russian content on youtube.
Show love for dogs and cats.
(dogs sell well, and DASH it will be a good blue-dog)
Rebrand or do something.
Show that the project is alive!

---

SEO-promotion and contextual advertising "Yandex Direct" and "Google Adwords",
Targeted advertising "INSTAGRAM", "FACEBOOK", "VKontakte" and "TikTok".

Make DASH shine everywhere, on all open spaces of the Internet!

Hard? Can't handle it? Just tired of it?
Sell the project to decent smart people ...

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Some of this happens to be true and some of it is just clinging to any port in a storm instead of (what you could be doing) advocating for Dash's powerful governance mechanism to be deployed to adapt the protocol for maximum competitiveness.

Dash is capable of attacking competitors to an extent that few if any "coins" are. But it can't do that while its hands are tied behind its back by a masternode community who's priority is to leech as much of the marketcap into their own pockets as they possibly can.

The irony of the masternodes' flawed priority is that they ignore the opportunity cost of growth in purchasing power of their collateral which is required to be pledged in order to receive mining rewards that would otherwise be directed to raising the price in the primary (mining) market. That price advantage alone can move the value of their collateral far more than the incremental coin-count of their Dash holdings can. We've seen that already.

Let us look at the OBV (On Balance Volume) in the longer term charts of Dash vs Bitcoin. We can see that there is some accumulation going on. OBV is lazily moving contrary to the price trace on the longest range charts. But it's barely detectable and this is in the middle of one of the greatest bull markets ever for crypto. So we'd expect that. But the problem is, this is also happening with fully mined coins and it isn't reflected in rankings.

(It might be for a brief few weeks when the "pumpers" get hold of us but that will only serve as an exit door for shills rather than people who actually want to stay in Dash and believe in it on the basis of fundamentals).



The reason for that (and the difference from the last time) is one and one only: we are at masternode equilibrium

Dash's marketcap growth dynamics are completely different at masternode equilibrium from what they are when we are moving from 400 masternodes to 4000. That's because it doesn't really matter how much of the supply is in or out of circulation, it's the rate at which it's taken out or put in to circulation that matters. At masternode equilibrium, the collateralising supply no longer has any effect on that rate. The dynamics shift so that the masternode rewards now become the dominant factor and those are all on the sell side only. (Miners have to buy the supply that they subsequently sell).

This explains why Dash is now at the bottom of the marketcap rankings for all mined coins in the top 80 digital assets. If it was true that we "didn't need all this hashrate", we'd be at the top because only half of our supply has to be competed for with hashrate whereas all of their's does. We are twice as competitive as them in terms of "not needing hashrate" yet we're at the bottom of the heap. The masternodes got something wrong there.

However Dash could turn this around and use its powerfull governance mechanism to its advantage. It's a simple step process:

1. understand the "mining" business model and its role in transferring fiat capital into a blockchain token

2. recognise that the reason we've lost so much competitivity corresponds to our lack of performance in store of value

3. masternodes need to appreciate growth in the value of their collateral (capital gain) at least as much as the Dash denominated rewards they received (because, having so much at stake, it can also manifest as a capital loss which will simply wipe out those Dash denominated rewards in an instant)

4. anyone who gets past points 1-3 will immediately realise how cheap service performance can be for Dash alone (exclusive, not available to Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero et al) and how much masternode rewards can be increased by shifting a component towards capital gain and away from a Dash-denominated income level that results in overall capital loss

The key to this is understanding the difference between a risk asset and a stable coin. In a stable coin we wouldn't have this problem. Masternode income would be masternode income, end of story. You would not have to calculate your aggregate reward by offsetting that income against the capital loss of your collateral. But Dash is not a stable coin. So you do have to calculate your reward by taking capital loss (or gain) of collateral into account and IMO masternodes should therefore be interested in Dash's protocol features which can maximise their capital gain, not just their Dash-denominated rewards.

The technical reason for that is that Dash inherits bitcoin's innate monetary properties but also (at a technology level) managed to decouple the mining protocol to liberate a new service layer protocol. But this advantage is lost if the project is co-opted by people (masternode operators) who simply don't even value the mining protocol. We end up with the worst of all worlds - not a de-fi token and not a highly mined scarcity token either.

One final point. When I say "capital loss" I'm talking mainly about opportunity cost. The cost of remaining invested in Dash while Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero et al hammer us on ranking. Ranking means marketcap loss and marketcap loss means opportunity cost and opportunity cost ultimately means "staying in fiat". Ok you didn't lose any fiat-vauled Dash but you sure lost out by not being invested in Bitcoin.

Dash has and has always had an immensely powerful offering which was as good in store-of-value terms as it was in usability "what a nice wallet" terms. But we will not be able to deploy this advantage without being thinking, competitive and addressing elephants in the room.

Otherwise page 2 awaits us.