[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 6518.

TanteStefana

full member

Activity: 280

Merit: 100

The Future Of Work

Quote from: eduffield on March 21, 2014, 12:25:40 PM

Here's the spreadsheet used to calculate that graph, everyone can play with the numbers and suggest different values.

We could have all sorts of values, like :

Adjustment Cycle (yr) Percentage Max Coins
1 .8 12M - 50M
.5 .9 12M - 54M
.25 .95 25M - 102M
.25 .9 12M - 54M

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap3NZiAq07QUdFlIZEZpTXU2MHNrckduVnR0bzVzOVE&usp=sharing

If you make the minimums so small, nobody would care about the coin. They'd say, oh only the people who got in early will ever have any coin, why should I make them rich?

You'll kill this coin with greed.

The exact reason why true democracy will never work, the people will keep voting themselves money until here isn't any anymore...

Bio Teckna

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: chaeplin on March 21, 2014, 12:03:22 PM

Quote from: chaeplin on March 21, 2014, 10:56:03 AM

Quote from: Bio Teckna on March 21, 2014, 09:07:47 AM

Hi everyone,

I've created a new P2Pool for DarkCoin mining
Here is the URL : http://poulpe.nirnroot.com:7903
Server :

100Mbps
DDOS Protection
Hosted in Gravelines, France : https://www.google.com/maps/search/ovh+gravelines/@51.0028375,2.142824,10z/data=!3m1!4b1
Rented for a year
1% fee

Remember that it can take up to 24-72 hours for your payments to ramp up.
Use a wallet address as your username

Join the decentralised p2p mining network and protect DRK from the 51% attack!
MPOS: Trust the administrator...
P2Pool: Only trust yourself Cheesy

I have found your node not listed in http://darckcoin.mine.nu/.
I correct the code, soon will be listed.

done.

Thanks

coastermonger

sr. member

Activity: 367

Merit: 250

Find me at Bitrated

Quote

As it stands, DarkCoin can live forever, if the artificial 84million cap were removed. It is still rare, it takes a century to get to 100 million. Look at the United States Deficit! It's in the Trillions! And people think 100 million coins for the world population is too much?

I'm going to respectfully disagree. Darkcoin needs a cap, it doesn't have to be quick or sharp, or anytime soon, but there needs to be an expectation that it's a limited commodity like gold. Why? Because it's directly competing with other limited commodity cryptocurrencies.

If darkcoin is inflationary, there is no advantage to keeping your money in it long term. This is a problem, because trying to trade in and out of the currency would reduce the privacy that it affords. I could hold another limited commodity cryptocurrency instead and very likely watch its value gain with time.

Gradually reducing the rewards over time is an excellent solution. Miners will still make money off of transaction fees, the price will adjust upwards as inflation diminishes, and there will be real incentive to keeping your money in darkcoin long term. These are the characteristics you would want in an ideal currency.

ErrorId

full member

Activity: 133

Merit: 100

Has anyone done the math for figuring out at what hash rate we will hit the minimum 5 coins per block?

AlexGR

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1049

Quote from: TanteStefana on March 21, 2014, 12:18:15 PM

As it stands, DarkCoin can live forever, if the artificial 84million cap were removed. It is still rare, it takes a century to get to 100 million. Look at the United States Deficit! It's in the Trillions! And people think 100 million coins for the world population is too much?

Bitcoin won't die just because it'll stop producing coins at some point - otherwise no-one would buy it thinking it's dead and buried already. There's still transaction fees to be mined after the coin generation phase and if the coin has endured for so long, that means it will have transactions.

Finite and scarce coins are always better than infinite crapcoins. The elite-hoarding argument is true for every single coin in circulation. If the elite have the money and want to buy in, they can buy anything they like and hoard it.

LimLims

sr. member

Activity: 1204

Merit: 272

1xbit.com

I suspect you're all busy talking through the reward structure, but I'm about to hit the hay so I'm going to leave this idea here for discussion:

I propose redirecting a portion of bounty funds towards crowdsourcing a professional logo & wordpress template.

The timeline I'd be aiming for:

Put logo design brief on DesignCrowd this weekend
Release interim site with expanded content within a week
Logo designs trickle in and winner is voted on by community (which could mean sticking with what we have)
Submit design brief for professionally branded WordPress theme to DesignCrowd, matched to logo
Vote on the WP theme entries
Generate final Darkcoin branding guide based on the above.

We could also raise more funds specifically for this, e.g. if we want to shoot for higher quality WP templates. Open to feedback.

eduffield

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1036

Dash Developer

Here's the spreadsheet used to calculate that graph, everyone can play with the numbers and suggest different values.

We could have all sorts of values, like :

Adjustment Cycle (yr) Percentage Max Coins
1 .8 12M - 50M
.5 .9 12M - 54M
.25 .95 25M - 102M
.25 .9 12M - 54M

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap3NZiAq07QUdFlIZEZpTXU2MHNrckduVnR0bzVzOVE&usp=sharing

watuba

full member

Activity: 211

Merit: 100

Quote from: LimLims on March 21, 2014, 01:14:15 AM

Quote from: watuba on March 21, 2014, 01:00:16 AM

How do you know we don't have the budget for this? For $10k, you can get one of the top branders in the world to come up with a world-class logo and extended color pallete. We came up with 2200 DRK when you issued a bounty address with no specific direction. Give it a specific direction and you'll get much more funding. One thing that is hard for most developer/techy people to understand is that logos and design are not done best when crowdsourced and voted on. Most people don't actually know what is appealing design and how their subconscious filters images. The work is often much much better when the control is given to a master artist with a vision for how the company should appear visually. The payoff is also orders of magnitude better, as our eyes and subconscious are extremely critical and selective, considering we are bombarded with 100's of garbage logos and the bland design we run accross everyday, where most companies didn't allow enough for a marketing budget.

What people are trying to say is, the logo and design quality MATTER, like BIG TIME. Don't settle for anything less than the absolute best we can get. And we can find a way to get the best.

I couldn't agree more with your points about branding being best left to the experts. If we had the budget, I'd happily give the whole branding & market effort over to a marketing group. My point was simply that we don't at this moment have a budget for this. You're right that we could do a fundraising drive specifically for this purpose. I was hoping to see where our existing budget gets us, and go from there. The main pressure I perceive is to get content up, and significantly less pressure to get branding perfect right at the moment. Having said that, if you or someone else volunteered to coordinate a fundraiser specifically for hiring someone to do our branding & art, then I wouldn't be opposed. I do this in my spare time on a volunteer basis and I'm stretched pretty thin as it is.

Right on. I think you're doing a great job, and certainly the best you can. I just want to help out where I have some input. I may help coordinate this in the future. At the very moment, I only have the time to tell other people what to do Wink

Thanks for listening.

TanteStefana

full member

Activity: 280

Merit: 100

The Future Of Work

Quote from: godzirra on March 21, 2014, 12:07:50 PM

Quote from: eduffield on March 21, 2014, 11:04:49 AM

Hello everyone and happy Friday!

Anyone who's been around long enough knows nothing in Darkcoin is ever set in stone and we listen to the community. Last time we removed the block halving we received a lot of crap, here's the problems with yearly halving.

- It's too fast and could destroy the coin
- It's way too much (50% per year)
- We already have formula for controlling the supply

Problems with not having a fixed supply:

- We'll have a constant amount of inflation forever. Most of us are in the austrian camp of economics, so I'd like to fix this.

In true Darkcoin fashion, I'd like to propose a solution that no other crypto has and fixes all of the issues. A yearly reduction of supply of 20%. With this we'll hit the cap of coins near 2056. I'm guessing we'll have somewhere near 25M coins (12M minimum, 49M maximum. Depends on how many miners we attract).

Let's have a vote!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/darkcoin-reward-schedule-vote-525093

This is a pretty big deal. Once this change is made is it final? We seem to revisit this from time to time. Also in the graph what is the middle black line?

That's just the average, and as it is going, we seem right on track to hug that blue line, so the red line is really an unlikely max that I'm afraid people think could be real. It's not, and I would like to see the formula continue as it is. I think it's unwise to shorten the lifespan of this coin. You have to remember, there will exponentially more and more people joining the crypto coin community over the next few years, and more after that. It will become an acceptable form of currency, there is no stopping it now. So the mild inflation will be quickly absorbed by demand, and allowing for meaningful rewards in the long term will keep this coin viable in our lifetime!

This coin should be the exception to the rule of, "lets get all the profit we can out of it asap to heck with the future!"

As it stands, DarkCoin can live forever, if the artificial 84million cap were removed. It is still rare, it takes a century to get to 100 million. Look at the United States Deficit! It's in the Trillions! And people think 100 million coins for the world population is too much?

chompyZ

sr. member

Activity: 291

Merit: 250

1. I'm happy that a debate is emerging here and not just "go and vote".
2. I would be happier if people postpone their voting for, say 24h, buy which time they read all the views and establish their views.
3. I'm not a brit. I'm Israeli. We normally do, then ask...Obviously, i'd rather we do not go the 'Israeli way'

4. As far as to my personal view of the matter - I think decision at hand has CONSIDERABLE IMPLICATIONS on the coin, and should be thought out very carefully.
5. I myself have economic and financial background... yet I admit I am still indecisive as to my view of the matter...

cshlock

newbie

Activity: 31

Merit: 0

So I messaged Cryptsy about the price manipulation on Darkcoin. This is what they sent me today.

"Unfortunately, we do not have any rules against the use of bots. Many people use them and they are a part of trading crypto. Some exchanges even have bot counters right on main page. Bots are only as good as the person who programmed them, and I know many people who learn the bot and outsmart them, I figure it is a matter of time until someone kills that bot off. I know they can be a pain, sorry for the inconvenience,

Horus
Cryptsy Security"

AD_Infinitum

member

Activity: 74

Merit: 10

I think reduction of 5-10% would be better!

godzirra

full member

Activity: 219

Merit: 100

Quote from: eduffield on March 21, 2014, 11:04:49 AM

Hello everyone and happy Friday!

Anyone who's been around long enough knows nothing in Darkcoin is ever set in stone and we listen to the community. Last time we removed the block halving we received a lot of crap, here's the problems with yearly halving.

- It's too fast and could destroy the coin
- It's way too much (50% per year)
- We already have formula for controlling the supply

Problems with not having a fixed supply:

- We'll have a constant amount of inflation forever. Most of us are in the austrian camp of economics, so I'd like to fix this.

In true Darkcoin fashion, I'd like to propose a solution that no other crypto has and fixes all of the issues. A yearly reduction of supply of 20%. With this we'll hit the cap of coins near 2056. I'm guessing we'll have somewhere near 25M coins (12M minimum, 49M maximum. Depends on how many miners we attract).

Let's have a vote!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/darkcoin-reward-schedule-vote-525093

This is a pretty big deal. Once this change is made is it final? We seem to revisit this from time to time. Also in the graph what is the middle black line?

Standhaft

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I think it's a good idea to influence the rigid inflation but we should have more options rather than just yes or no.

A few more version e.g. 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30% along with graphs espeically for the first 10 years

chaeplin

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: chaeplin on March 21, 2014, 10:56:03 AM

Quote from: Bio Teckna on March 21, 2014, 09:07:47 AM

Hi everyone,

I've created a new P2Pool for DarkCoin mining
Here is the URL : http://poulpe.nirnroot.com:7903
Server :

100Mbps
DDOS Protection
Hosted in Gravelines, France : https://www.google.com/maps/search/ovh+gravelines/@51.0028375,2.142824,10z/data=!3m1!4b1
Rented for a year
1% fee

Remember that it can take up to 24-72 hours for your payments to ramp up.
Use a wallet address as your username

Join the decentralised p2p mining network and protect DRK from the 51% attack!
MPOS: Trust the administrator...
P2Pool: Only trust yourself Cheesy

I have found your node not listed in http://darckcoin.mine.nu/.
I correct the code, soon will be listed.

done.

godzirra

full member

Activity: 219

Merit: 100

Quote from: coins101 on March 21, 2014, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: Jungian on March 21, 2014, 10:26:51 AM

Quote from: Xdragon on March 21, 2014, 10:22:09 AM

looks like some roto coin will use DGW too https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-rt2-rotocoinnow-on-cryptsybet-with-your-rotos-android-trader-app-516138

Another scamcoin, who would have guessed?

should have called it Darkcoin Gravity Wave.

I really like that it's like a high five every time a clone copies it. Can't we make that happen? It's still early.

Darkcoin Gravity Wave!!!

camosoul

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

www.OroCoin.co

Quote from: patrolman on March 21, 2014, 11:50:18 AM

Quote from: camosoul on March 21, 2014, 11:45:20 AM

Quote from: chompyZ on March 21, 2014, 11:30:40 AM

Hi Evan,

I'm sorry - but I come from the 'British School' of politics, where any idea gets to be discussed in public first, with views heard from both sides, and only then- after the people with voting rights heard varying views and have established their beliefs and views on the matter - ONLY THEN they vote.

With no disrespect (and this has nothing to do with my economic thought), I think community members should write here what they think, have others read, digest and form an opinion first. After several pages of views, we can proceed to vote.

My 2 cents.

Brits... Suggesting the very idea that stands in front of you... ;-)

I think he posted it here for that very reason... Duh.

I think if discussion had taken place beforehand there might be more than two options available. If you don't agree with either of the available options, what can you vote for?

You can suggest that the option be added. Here. Now. During the said debate. That is happening.

TanteStefana

full member

Activity: 280

Merit: 100

The Future Of Work

Quote from: eduffield on March 21, 2014, 11:49:20 AM

Quote from: Standhaft on March 21, 2014, 11:47:55 AM

If I understand it correctly, you want to decrease DRK joining the market by 20% every year.

So it goes like this for the DRK being mined:
2015 - 800,000 DRK
2016 - 640,000 DRK
2017 - 512,000 DRK

Or am I not getting something?

That's correct

Is that taking into consideration the formula for payout?

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

chompyZ

I think you have a very valid point. However, notwithstanding the vote page and discussion under the vote, I am of a different view (which I suppose meets your point about discussing this).

This project needs leadership. Litecoin doesn't have any and it is drifting. This is Evan's project and, while we all make mistakes and he needs support, I think he should lead but seek advice. This sounds like what is happening here.

That is the British School of boardroom politics, which serves pretty well too.

TanteStefana

full member

Activity: 280

Merit: 100

The Future Of Work

Making the coin scarce is only for the short-sighted. It will make the coin quickly become one for only the elite to have. Look at Bitcoin! Besides, it doesn't even change anything in the short term anyway!

Look, a mild inflation which this coin would have (and it wouldn't look like that crazy chart!) is healthy! As more of the public become involved with cryptos, they will take up much more of the inflationary slack than is created. This allows the coin to be accessible way into the future! There will be plenty of demand still. You can hard cap it at 84 million, and let the formula do the rest and I bet it will still take until 2084 to get to that cap.

This is rewards over hash rate, and you already can see how fast our hash rate has been increasing. I really think changing the setup would be unwise and short sighted!

Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 6518. (Read 9723858 times)