Pages:
Author

Topic: [ANN][GAP] Gapcoin - Prime Gap Search - New Math Algo - CPU / GPU - Zero Premine - page 18. (Read 287755 times)

legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1290
It would be really fantastic to see the upper bound limits removed someday, perhaps.

We simply need moar primespersec (network has power) i.e. more folks mining and/or better miners / ASICs etc.,

I don't believe that the upper bound on shift value is a blocking issue. Back in Dec 2017, YomKi articulated why:

There are a few different methods being used for current gap finding efforts:

  • Exhaustive search.  This is looking for true record gaps, which means it started at 2 and went up from there.  It's intensely computationally expensive.  Tomás Oliveira e Silva ran a distributed project from 2005 to 2012 that got to 4e18 using years of work on hundreds of cores.  Interestingly, the computational result was used in Helfgott's 2013 proof of the Odd Goldbach Conjecture.  Recently the PGS team at mersenneforum have used a different method to extend this and after about 9 months have brought this to 10e18.  The number of records per computational effort is very small, however these are true Minimal Gaps -- once found the record is permanent, as no earlier gaps of that size exist.

  • Gapcoin.  For relatively small P1 values (84-347 digits), choose a random small range, sieve out small multiples, then run Fermat tests to find gaps.  While each step is efficient and fast, it's rather inefficient at finding record gaps.  It's basically rapidly throwing darts while blindfolded and being spun around -- the only way to get more darts in the target is to throw faster.

  • Primorial methods.  Gaps are far more common at multiples of primorials without some small divisors, e.g. numbers of the form N * p# / k with k a small square free number.  So if one looks at increasing values of N * 191#/30, for instance, using efficient methods for finding the previous and next primes around that point, one can find record gaps many times times faster than the gapcoin method.  That is the method used by most other searchers and is what holds all but 3 of the highest merits (those three being from the exhaustive search).  There are some minor variations -- Hans Rosenthal in 2017 did searches with a fixed large N and instead varied k.  Using the dart analogy from before, this is throwing darts while aiming at the target.  The darts are thrown a lot slower, but since they're all thrown in the direction of the target rather than randomly around the room, more of them result in high results.

I find it worth bearing in mind that the Gapcoin code is performing not one but two functions - the discovery of prime gaps with record merit is a designed side-effect of using prime gap search as as a proof-of-work mechanism for a cryptocurrency and that dual functioning requirement necessarily restricts the range of P1 values that can be selected. As I noted, the higher the shift, the larger the primes being sieved and so the lower the hash rate. More efficient primorial-based methods for finding gaps are an ill fit with the requirement to act as a proof-of-work mechanism. The Prime Gap Search group of the mersenne forum has an open source primorial-based gap search implementation but, given its functional focus is on searching gaps, it's not a good solution for a proof-of-work implementation.

The fact that the Gapcoin prime gap record search implementation isn't as efficient as a dedicated approach is an inevitable trade-off arising from its use as a proof-of-work mechanism. Baisically, it's a balance and emphasising one aspect of this dual-functioning comes at the expense of the other.

Also, PM'd to BitcoinFX ...
Quote
I hope to finish this upgrade of Gapcoin to 0.16.3 in time to coincide with your announcement schedule:



Although most of the work is done and it syncs with both mainnet and testnet, it's unreleased because I have yet to get all the tests passing and it's unmentioned publicly because of its capacity to create bech32 txs which 0.9 clients can't handle and which might result in blockchain seizure. Also, I haven't ported the miner - which uses the old and no-longer-supported getwork RPC call - nor have I had time even to test my back-ported implementation of getwork (a potential but unlikely-to-succeed fallback attempt).

You see, 0.16.3 is a bit old as a target for an upgrade, 0.20 would be better, 0.19.1 a minimum. I'm working on it.

Cheers

Graham
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
...snip...

2886
3087
 <<<<<  Gapcoin is currently here in terms of primespersec network hash power vs prime gaps of highest merit found
3187
3287
 <<<<<  Gapcoin is currently here in terms of primespersec network hash power vs prime gaps of highest merit found
3488

...snip...

Great work Graham!

Your efforts reminded me of a quote by Bruce Schneier in regards to Tor project Metrics ...

"... "Finally, Tor metrics are the ammunition that lets Tor and other security advocates argue for a more private and secure Internet from a position of data, rather than just dogma or perspective. It's where the real world influences Tor.” ... "
- Bruce Schneier (June 1, 2016)
- https://metrics.torproject.org/about.html


This all helps to demonstrate that from a mathematical standpoint Gapcoin can already do what it claims to do.

It would be really fantastic to see the upper bound limits removed someday, perhaps.

We simply need moar primespersec (network has power) i.e. more folks mining and/or better miners / ASICs etc.,

Empirical evidence and results are already on the blockchain by Gapcoin's own design.

...

I've said this before, but Gapcoin is the Cryptocurrency / Mathematical (Prime Gaps research) equivalent of building a working Large Hadron Collider to search for "The God Particle" and instead of switching it on, just leaving it buried in the sand ...

Large Hadron Collider
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

Stargate (1/12) Movie CLIP - The Stargate Is Discovered (1994) HD
- https://youtu.be/HCLQRZmD1EE

HINT: Need moar pulley ropes!
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley

Stargate (2/12) Movie CLIP - Activation of the Stargate (1994) HD
- https://youtu.be/3Ds0DRCNXN4

Coffee!, anyone?

Onward.
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1290
... and it's worth noting that the current record for the largest prime gap with best merit is still held by Gapcoin with a (n inferred, from "87-digit prime") shift of 30

For the record, two gaps with highest merits on GapCoin blockchain so far have been found with a shift of 32, but there is nothing magical or clandestine about 32 here!
I stand corrected (I did acknowledge that it was a rough-and-ready relationship). Dunno why I didn't check before I posted ...

fwiw, this is how to use sqlitebrowser to obtain the figures from the "data" table (in the sqlite3 database to which I posted a link above).



The "gaps" table is the same one used by Seth Troisi in his post to the prime gap search group of the mersenneforum, he used select year, max(merit) from gaps group by year; to get the table he posted to the group: https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=536596&postcount=115

Cheers

Graham
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 2
... and it's worth noting that the current record for the largest prime gap with best merit is still held by Gapcoin with a (n inferred, from "87-digit prime") shift of 30

For the record, two gaps with highest merits on GapCoin blockchain so far have been found with a shift of 32, but there is nothing magical or clandestine about 32 here!

http://gapcoin.org/primegaps-merits.php
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/gap/block.dws?646118.htm#raw
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/gap/block.dws?655591.htm#raw
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1290
FYI: a table showing a rough-and-ready relationship between the shift setting and the number of digits in the primes tested (data taken from the publicly-accessible gapdata.sqlite3.zip SQLite3 database file here on mega.nz).

ShiftPrimedigits
1682
1783
1883
1983
2084
2184
2284
2384
2485
2585
2685
2786
2886
3087
3187
3287
3488
3588
3688
3788
3789
3989
4090
4190
4290
4390
4591
4691
4792
4892
4992
5093
5092
5594
5795
5794
5895
6095
6096
6396
6397
6497
6998
7299
74100
75100
88104
90105
95106
96106
100107
100108
105109
110111
112111
115112
120114
120114
121114
122114
123114
123115
125115
126115
127116
128116
130116
132117
144121
150122
150123
156124
180132
187134
188134
189134
190135
191135
192135
200138
225145
250153
255154
256154
256155
286164
300168
301168
308170
328176
330177
348182
350183
351183
356185
360186
380192
381192
382192
383193
391195
392195
392196
404199
409200
409201
412201
412202
414202
415202
416203
437209
440210
441210
442210
442211
443211
444211
445212
446212
447212
448212
449213
450213
451213
468218
472219
472220
473220
474220
476221
477221
478221
479222
480222
481222
482223
483223
502229
504229
506230
508230
509231
510231
511231
512232
540240
541240
542241
543241
544241
546242
547242
574250
576251
602259
607260
608260
608261
630267
634268
640270
698287
699288
700288
702289
720294
732298
760306
762307
764307
764308
765308
767308
790315
794316
794317
797317
798318
799318
828327
829327
830327
831327
831328
832328
860336
888345
896347
920354
920355
986374
987375
988375
991376
992376
1010381
1011382
1012382
1014383
1017383
1019384
1020384
1020385
1021385
1022385
1023385
1023386
1024386

(I've found that the higher the shift setting, the lower the hashrate, unsurprising).

Gapcoin maxes out (nominally) at a shift of 1024 (as set by Jonny Frey, to avoid DoS) with a max prime digit length of 386, around number 10000 of 95000 in a sorted list of primedigit lengths taken from the prime gaps list (where the extreme upper regions see prime digit lengths of 100,000-200,000).

However, the criterion is maximum known merit and gap size, not the number of digits in the prime and it's worth noting that the current record for the largest prime gap with best merit is still held by Gapcoin with a(n inferred, from "87-digit prime") shift of 30:

Quote
NEW PRIME GAP OF MAXIMUM KNOWN MERIT
The Gapcoin network (Jonnie Frey, developer), a Bitcoin derivative which employs a hashing algorithm to search for prime gaps of high merit, has discovered a new prime gap of maximum known merit, a gap of G=8350 following the 87-digit prime P1=293703234068022590158723766104419463425709075574811762098588798217895728858676728143227. The merit M=G/ln(P1) of this gap is M=41.93878373153988, the largest merit of any known prime gap, and the first prime gap to be discovered with a merit exceeding 40. The endpoints of the gap have been certified as primes deterministically, using the Akiyama-Kida-O'Hara UBASIC implementation (1988-1992) of the APRCL2 test, due to Adleman, Pomerance, Rumely, Cohen, H. W. Lenstra, and A. K. Lenstra (1984-1987).

Cheers

Graham
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
I'm the boss bitch.  
You can be whatever kind of bitch you want. Just keep reading Dale Carnegie. You can do it.

Thanks for your support.  Kiss

Come trade some Gapcoins someday... I'm sure you're loaded with opinions about trading, I'd love to see you put your money where your opinion is!   https://freebitcoins.com/xchange/market/BTC_GAP
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
That is why the new coin has to be bot resistant fucktard.

You claimed HUC was bot resistant.  Which isn't even remotely true, fucktard!

You claimed HUC was easy to sync rurally.  Which isn't even remotely true either!  

~~~~


The first coin to rocket past bitcoin will probably be the first coin which figures out how to create a simple human mining mechanism like Huntercoin or Motocoin which is bot resistant, and can be run on a slow rural connection with a cheap mobile that only has a primitive browser. My opinion.

Ah ok, I got you.  You're still wrong though fucktard.  Kiss Grin

You should go throw your life savings in something like that and see how it works out!  

You'd be better off learning how to build and design a mastermind of people that can do things you don't know how to do yourself. *hugs*

It's ironic your screen name has Guthrie in it... you remind me of some pole smoker I knew in school named Grant Guthrie.  Same arrogant "I know everything" attitude and an opinion about everything, but they couldn't actually do anything and had no experience.

You are waiting for a rich person to tell you what do do. Keep waiting.

You got life fucked up kid.  Again, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

I'm the boss bitch.   Kiss

legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
That is why the new coin has to be bot resistant fucktard.

You claimed HUC was bot resistant.  Which isn't even remotely true, fucktard!

You claimed HUC was easy to sync rurally.  Which isn't even remotely true either!  

~~~~


The first coin to rocket past bitcoin will probably be the first coin which figures out how to create a simple human mining mechanism like Huntercoin or Motocoin which is bot resistant, and can be run on a slow rural connection with a cheap mobile that only has a primitive browser. My opinion.

Ah ok, I got you.  You're still wrong though fucktard.  Kiss Grin

You should go throw your life savings in something like that and see how it works out!  

You'd be better off learning how to build and design a mastermind of people that can do things you don't know how to do yourself. *hugs*

It's ironic your screen name has Guthrie in it... you remind me of some pole smoker I knew in school named Grant Guthrie.  Same arrogant "I know everything" attitude and an opinion about everything, but they couldn't actually do anything and had no experience.
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
That is why the new coin has to be bot resistant fucktard.

You claimed HUC was bot resistant.  Which isn't even remotely true, fucktard!

You claimed HUC was easy to sync rurally.  Which isn't even remotely true either! 
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
You are trying to use idiot tools to pump up a science coin.

No ones pumping anything, fucktard.  Giving free GAP actually does the exact opposite of pump.  Roll Eyes

Maybe you should try to learn how to sync a wallet or mine before you start voicing your opinion publicly and expect us to take you even remotely seriously.

Faucets are fine, I used them a lot when I needed money, but it is ridiculous to use a faucet which will stop paying once traffic reaches a certain point to promote a coin that is unavailable to most people. You are trying to use a stupid solution to an old problem that isn’t even appropriate for gapcoin.

~

The first coin to rocket past bitcoin will probably be the first coin which figures out how to create a simple human mining mechanism like Huntercoin or Motocoin which is bot resistant, and can be run on a slow rural connection with a cheap mobile that only has a primitive browser. My opinion.

I was a HUGE holder in Huntercoin.  It is absolutely not bot resistant.  I firmly believe Snailbrain had a bot previous to launch.

I lost 60 BTC or more on HUC.  Huntercoin had HUGE sync problems... biggest problems I've seen of any coin.  Not an opinion, fact
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
Somebody asked if there was another way to get gapcoin aside from mining or buying.

Simple answer, yes, freebitcoins.com/faucet... it doesn't matter how rich or poor their country is either.   Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 1249
Merit: 297
Most people in most countries are not able to set aside a computer to secure the network. Last time I ran the gapcoin wallet, a few years ago, it was far more intensive than most wallets, running 99% cpu and still taking a vast amount of time to download if I recall. So when a person asks how to get some gapcoin, first ask them if they are in a poor country or a rich country.

A simple Atom based netbook consumes next to nothing. Gapcoin sync is slow because prime gap verification is much slower than PoW hash verification of most algos.


#SinBad, absolutely no idea where you are coming from.
Yes, like a lot of coins, initial sync is quite slow, but once done, you can "secure" the network on a very low powered device. Or using just1 thread of a multicore PC.
As for mining, there is a standalone cpu miner, AMD gpu miner, a pool, or you can simple "setgenerate true 1" using just 1 core...so i think that should cover most senarios.

I bought an all in one mb with cpu/gpu, consumes 14 watt and mines a small amount of gapcoin (https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-E350N-WIN8-rev-10#ov (2cores), or https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-E3800N-rev-1x#kf(2cores 4 threads)) just don't expect to make many coins per day...

To be fair, you could have the wallet / mine on a RaspberryPi, or PiZero...
hero member
Activity: 591
Merit: 501
Scavenger of Crypto Sorrow
Most people in most countries are not able to set aside a computer to secure the network. Last time I ran the gapcoin wallet, a few years ago, it was far more intensive than most wallets, running 99% cpu and still taking a vast amount of time to download if I recall. So when a person asks how to get some gapcoin, first ask them if they are in a poor country or a rich country.

A simple Atom based netbook consumes next to nothing. Gapcoin sync is slow because prime gap verification is much slower than PoW hash verification of most algos.
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
Genuine cryptocurrencies circa 2014 didn't do airdrops or ICO's etc.,

A bit off-topic, but Clamcoin.  (Just-Dice.com uses CLAM since Bitcoin got huge and FreeBitcoins.com CTO,Xploited (AKA Scott), created CLAM (Xploited))

It was the first airdrop using private keys that wasn't a fork of Bitcoin.

All Bitcoin, Litecoin and Dogecoin users were gifted 4.6xxxxxxx CLAMS per address that held over "dust".

So when a person asks how to get some gapcoin, first ask them if they are in a poor country or a rich country.

I think you'd be better off asking them if they pack their lunch or take the bus.  Grin Tongue

legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
Bro tell me is there a way to get this GAP coin? Maybe participation in some bounty or airdrop? Or just mining or buying?

I guess we might get some new translation 'bounties' on the go for the upcoming Gapcoin thread re-[ANN]ouncment ... soon ™.

Genuine cryptocurrencies circa 2014 didn't do airdrops or ICO's etc.,

Best option to get some Gapcoin, in the first instance, is to get the wallet and participate in securing the network via CPU/GPU mining (or in the pool).

Exchanges exist where you can buy Gapcoin. However, this is not investment advice.  Smiley

- https://gapcoin.club

...



...

Beastie Boys - Intergalactic
- https://youtu.be/qORYO0atB6g

 Cheesy
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
Bro tell me is there a way to get this GAP coin? Maybe participation in some bounty or airdrop? Or just mining or buying?
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com

I’ve never mined any coin. I tried to figure out coin mining early on but never quite got anything to do anything that produces coins.


Seriously ... This entire industry has gone backwards.  Roll Eyes

" How to start mining for Gapcoin in the QT Wallet.

To start mining for Gapcoin in your wallet go to:

Help > Debug window > Console and type in the following command at the prompt:

setgenerate true "

- https://gapcoin.club/windows-gui-setup.php
- https://gapcoin.club/linux-gapcoind-setup.php

Just like original Bitcoin, which had a CPU "Generate Coins" Tab ...

The more people mining Gapcoin, the bigger the Prime Gaps found.

Increasing P2P participation in the Gapcoin network is still the first step.

Remember the Bitcoin whitepaper? Nodes (wallets) do Proof-of-Work mining. Gapcoin nodes can still be effective CPU miners currently!

Ed. Don't give up, they will figure it out eventually ... N+1

I am usually past the data limit on my internet connection. During the covid stuff I got some free extra gigabytes, but I have to be sparse with things that use a lot of data.

My opinion of ‘mining’ is that it should involve human input, as I’ve said.

The current coin environment was created by developers for developers. The initial payoff goes to developers, then the second string picks up mining etc.

It isn’t really directed to either consumers nor to productivity.

If a person is going to mine, they should mine on productive networks like gapcoin, but I will wait for human mining to start so I don’t have to setgenerate true or delete conf file.

Idk why, but reading Sinbad's posts just annoy the hell out of me.

Fucking noobs that haven't mined a single coin that think their opinion matters.... *gag*
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF

I’ve never mined any coin. I tried to figure out coin mining early on but never quite got anything to do anything that produces coins.


Seriously ... This entire industry has gone backwards.  Roll Eyes

" How to start mining for Gapcoin in the QT Wallet.

To start mining for Gapcoin in your wallet go to:

Help > Debug window > Console and type in the following command at the prompt:

setgenerate true "

- https://gapcoin.club/windows-gui-setup.php
- https://gapcoin.club/linux-gapcoind-setup.php

Just like original Bitcoin, which had a CPU "Generate Coins" Tab ...

The more people mining Gapcoin, the bigger the Prime Gaps found.

Increasing P2P participation in the Gapcoin network is still the first step.

Remember the Bitcoin whitepaper? Nodes (wallets) do Proof-of-Work mining. Gapcoin nodes can still be effective CPU miners currently!

Ed. Don't give up, they will figure it out eventually ... N+1
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
An interesting discussion ...  Cheesy

@SinbadGuthrie - Are you still mining Gapcoin and/or running a full node? If not, why not?  Smiley

Like Atlantis, Gapcoin wasn't built in a day.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richat_Structure

...

Gapcoin currently has more nodes than you might imagine. The block explorer at https://chainz.cryptoid.info/gap/ only publishes the nodes it sees i.e actually has had connectivity with over the past 24 hour period ... "Network Clients seen in the last 24 hours"

The explorer is not listing our known Tor nodes for example, not even the front facing nodes.

I'm working on launching a new 2nd block explorer at https://gapcoin.club and upgrading the current club network infrastructure.

Tor shielded GPU farm on standby ... [citation needed]

...

I don't know when C-Patex is actually listing Gapcoin either, but I'm awaiting 3 stable exchanges and 2 live block explorers before I push this project some more to the crypto industry 'numb nuts'.
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1290
I remember Freicoin, and I remember spending quite a while trying to figure out the logic of some long word he used to explain something about interest rates and a fair distribution of money based on something confusing about the working class or something. I respect somebody who has political beliefs but it seemed to be a well intentioned shitcoin. The rest of your first paragraph says what I said while claiming to refute it.
tbh, I don't find this kind of btc convo at all rewarding. You say you struggled with the concept of demurrage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_%28currency%29) and how it pertains to Freicoin (http://freico.in/), I can't really help you there other than to suggest that perhaps you might refrain from ungrounded opining (either disparagingly or encouragingly) on things that you don't understand..

Quote
Freiexchange was created to unload or create liquidity for bags.
Your negative attitude epitomises the point I made about operating a cryptocurrency exchange being a thankless effort. The technical aspects of operating a cryptocurrency exchange are  most unlikely to interest someone with technical skills, rather the opposite. It'd basically be a labour of love, maintained in the face of countless kneejerk disparagements from people with very little skin in the game.

Quote
As far as definition of good coin vs shitcoin.

A very high quality coin will have a very slow emission with no premine, ico etc, it should be a productive algorithm that does something with its hashing power, etc.
Your rephrasing of my challenge casually elided the key aspect - a practical definition. Unfortunately, "productive" and "does something with its hashing power" are dismally vague failures in that respect.

Quote
Some few coins attract a completely different type of person. A lot of people mine gap coin because they feel like it is accomplishing something. Lots of people lent their computers to BOINC and similar projects before Gridcoin, and getting that coin to sell isn’t their main motive.
Those are confident statements but unfortunately are either based on zero evidence or fly in the face of any existing evidence (Gapcoin has 17 known nodes according to chainz, out of that slight population, where'd you get the idea that "a lot of people mine gap coin"? I'm disinclined to devote effort to disabusing you of your misperceptions and ungrounded opinions because you don't seem to have put in any significant effort in forming them.

Quote
As for your being sorry you have to tell me my notions about ai are fanciful, are you able to articulate something specific? I get that you are trying to minimize or counter my statements about ai, but if you actually do have a better knowledge on the subject then try to put into words what it is you disagree with.
Your ungrounded opinion is too unformed to merit or facilitate any more specific rebuttal. There isn't much one can sensibly respond to such hand-waviness as "Once ai science coins developed which produced a valuable commodity i.e., math or science discovery,"  Your statements clearly advertise that you have little or no knowledge of the underpinning "ai" technology being touted so you are unfortunately in the position of basically shilling for the next generation of shitcoins, ironic as that may seem.

Quote
I have no idea what all the options are but I’m sure a lot of technical people could figure it out.
Nor do you have any idea of how much work is involved in that figuring out, yet that doesn't seem to inhibit you from pontificating on how it'd be a good thing. Take the hint - it's not quite the no-brainer that it might seem.

Quote
One last point about ‘decent coins’ vs ‘shit coins’, then I’ll drop this as there doesn’t seem to be interest.
Promises, promises Smiley But yes, let's call it a day, it's not exactly a productive discussion.

Cheers

Graham

Pages:
Jump to: