Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 168. (Read 583120 times)

I am not saying that this is a case of insider trading .. nor am I saying that Kosmost leaked any information. Just simply saying that insider trading is still one of the possibilities here.

typically there are two forms of insider trading..

1) people who are on the "insiders" i.e. people involved directly with either party who are trading an asset. in a traditional stock market.. this kind of insider trading is legal but all trades have to be publicly declared and insiders are not allowed to trade on information which is not publicly available.

2) people who have inside information and are using that information to trade and make a profit.  these people do not have to be "insiders" (ie working directly with Karmashares OR the VC fund) to be found guilty of insider trading.. they just have to have access to information before it is released to market.


your comments about someone selling because they know that mintpal will drop the LTC market is an example of insider trading because this information is not publicly available yet.
another example of insider trading would be a VC fund knowing that their deal was unsuccessful dumping their own Karma before they make any public announcement or telling their friends who then dump karma before the information is public.

so as you can see Insider trading carries a very broad definition but the actual crime of insider trading is very specific to the act of profiting from the use of inside information and is applied differently in each country.

Since Karma is not a stock and since Karmashares is not a publicly traded company. insider trading rules may or may not apply in this case, but that doesn't mean that the accusations of insider trading are invalid just because Kosmost didn't tell anyone.

I'll repeat again what I have said about 3-4 times already, we simply do not have enough information to rule anything in or out and we probably never will so lets try not to get too emotional about accusations whether they are being made or received.


just an FYI


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insider_trading#Definition_of_.22insider.22

AGREED.

1) the removal of ltc was something i said that would make more sense then thinking inside trading. Just want to point out again that selling all the way down to 14 litoshi is .. well madness. what trader would make such decisions. karma was stable enough before the lill.com deal to see that the 30 litchi sell level is huge losses. ignoring the ltc market removal , an hacked account makes more sense. again this sell is mysterious for sure. not denying it. being so close to to the news deal. but that huge amount makes it just...  so confusing. who would sell . why? at what gains. nothing else has changed, the team will keep pushing. whats the point selling that low. crypts still has some "okey" volume. ....

2) i dissagree! kosmost has shown nothing but positive action regarding karma involvments. he doesn't like to kiss and tell but he has put a lot of $$ into it. all the things that sprung since he and us took over is mostly picked up by him. He should be the last person to point at. again that huge dump is just so freakish that it happened. but i can't possible allow others to think its inside trading. its just bad trading to sell so many coins to a coin that was maintaining the same volume before the sell and during the ongoing sell... if inside trading they could have easily sell 100 mills between each day for the many weeks this "fake deal" went on.

3) again this can not be considered pump n dump because there had to be a pump... i am not on my main comp so i can not chaise data and charts but if i recall correctly there was like..3-4 btw volume at first announcement. then price stabilized to 1 satoshi fast. by the time the news of the second deal came out (which was more mpayout money) there was no buy orders. i remember people making post of the lack of the "hype" and buy volume. the market did not react at all.. im am sure the charts will show flat line of 1 satoshi level. This only leaves us back to this mysterious "dump" that just does make economical sense. even if some one pumped 3-4 btcs.. that still would make them to have 400 mills (if one person) max. all the sells were x5 more... i just can not begging to explain the dumping. the only thing i can see is how close to the PND dumps it was which they also experienced massive hundreds of ltc sells.

i can firmly discharge pump and dump as it has no real volume to back it up and i can vouch that inside trading between the team never happened. i had to F5 this page just like everyone else here




+1

I wouldn't worry too much about what these people are saying to Kosmost. Most of them are newcomers who, familiar with the altcoin world, want their quick return and then dump.  Those of us who have been around Karma since the beginning realize where Karma was and the tremendous work done by Kosmost and other team members to resuscitate it from the dead.  Some of us are disappointed because we thought the money from this sale could have funded future Karma infrastructure as well as financially reward some of us who have been around for a while.  

The reality, however, is that we still have excellent devs with an excellent vision and the current price is mostly irrelevant to the future of Karma.  I've long since realized that I wouldn't be able to get a quick profit off Karma but I could be part of something much bigger and powerful than another cloned altcoin.  

I wish I had more skill of value to offer to the community but I don't....I am thankful for all of those who are contributing.  This notion that there is any scamming going on is absurd and could have been done long ago in a much simpler way for much more profit.  The current price is irrelevant.  What we have is a valuable idea with many potentially valuable implementations.  

If you think this coin and development can be done differently or better then let's hear your ideas or let's see your implementations.  I realize that many of these people may have been burned in other scams and therefore are more edgy about it than they otherwise might be but it's frustrating to see these absurd accusations flying around directed at the person who has given the most of his time and money to make YOU money.  

We have to add value to the Karma network in order for the coin to gain in value.  This is what Kosmost has always been saying all along while working to build value.  Build value, make profit.  This is not a pump and dump.  The current price is irrelevant unless you intended on selling right now.  Build the future instead of whining about the present.  I, for one, will rack my brain to think of ways that I can help the network and contribute to building value.  

1) your point about other information such as Karm/LTC delisting is possible.. however Moolah recently released a list of all the coins they will support in V2 and Karma along with all the other LTC traded coins are on that list. this means that it would be very unlikely.

2) unfortunately kosmost will have to wear accusations of scam from people who have not been with Karma for along time because of the lack of proof RE the VC offer. this goes with the territory of unregulated crypto investing.

3) the dumping that occurred directly before the announcement and lack of dumping after the announcement suggests that someone knew ahead of time that the deal wouldn't work out. This does not mean that info leaked on the Karmashares LLC side. it takes 2 parties to negotiate.. who is to say that the VC themselves didn't dump their own Karma or tell a "friend" that owned a substantial amount of Karma. who is to say that the VC offer itself wasn't an elaborate hoax designed to pump and dump.. since we have no first hand information RE the offer itself. we cannot confirm whether it was legitimate or not. This is why the price didn't rise dramatically on the news of a buyout offer, because most people were waiting for confirmation of a deal.

So even if Kosmost acted entirely in good faith and did not leak any information, that does not mean that this whole lil.com offer thing was not a scam or a pump and dump. Those people who have been with Karma since the beginning know that Kosmost has a good track record helping to stabilise the price from 18 litoshi up to the several hundreds. We also know not to expect him to do everything for Karma while others do nothing.

at the moment I don't think there is enough information to point fingers and I don't think there ever will be, so lets all try not to get too overly emotional.

The best thing any Karma holders can do right now is to take a deep breath and reflect on how this affects you personally.

If you lost some money then you should look at your own investment decisions and your own greed and learn from the experience.
If you bought some cheap Karma on the dumps just think about what you can do with that karma and how you can use it to help others.

This coin has room for more than one leader, more than one company, more than one buyout deal and more than one whale.

+1000

Maybe we should focus on being a solid next gen crypto currency rather than trying to be a crowdsourcing incubator?

KARMA WAS AND IS NOTHING WITHOUT KOSMOST AND THE TEAM. NOBODY WITH BRAIN BIGGER THAN WORM DOESN`T WANT KARMA WITHOUT KOSMOST EVEN FOR A DAY. FOR YEAR IS OUT OF A QUESTION. STOP WHINING, DUMP YOUR BAGS, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND CONTINUE TO FOLLOW OTHER MEANINGLESS COINS. NOBODY OWES YOU ANY KIND OF EXPLANATIONS OR TIME TO READ YOUR BUL$H17. GTFOOH. ABOUT NOW!

How do you like this?

Now I expect the coin to be dumped hard down to 10 litoshi, because so many people are pissed they could not get quick profits doing nothing  

i guess the coin is still worth just as much as it was yesterday. i wish i had money to buy more at this price. remember the jump over 140?  that was before the lill deal announcement

I guess I fourth that then!  Thanks Kosmost for taking the time out of YOUR life and money from YOUR pocket to pursue this deal.  People wanted the quick earnings and many would likely never be seen again nor offer to help Karma in any way.  The exception here is Socoban, who actually has provided a service to Karma by developing the block explorer.  Also, many people do not realize what the impact to Karma would be by taking you away for 6 months.  That is valuable time for the advancement of Karma not to mention you being an indentured servant and your brilliance and vision going to someone else.  I would have liked to have made some BTC short term on the sale, but Karma is here for the long-term and hopefully you will be too.  Please ignore the criticisms.  You made the best decision for Karma.  Some of the team have spoken already, but I am sure I can speak for all of us in saying we are behind you 100%.

Please please! If you support Karma let us hear from you!
Im not a dev im not a team member, im just someone from the community but please bring out the positive vibes about karma!!! Do you like kosmost? Or the team? Or karma itself? Shout it out!!! 

Here! Here!

Kos, please don't even respond to those who are ill.  It will only create more venom in them.  

Let's refocus the team right now!!!!  

Look forward to what's coming up next!

I have a question of my own: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8630797

Since you are one of the persons that believes this (judging by your posts) you may be able to answer the question ( I hope).

Have you no questions of your own, or would you prefer to just ride on others' queries and coat-tails for now?

Regardless, I am not a psychic so cannot answer question #1. #2 has already been answered by someone else.

#3 is a rhetorical question. But since this "question" is the only real question I will answer it with a quasi-answer and say, "Welcome to cryptocurrency!" However, I cannot think of anyone that "everyone" trusts, especially in crypto.

#4 is not a question.

#5 is not a question.

Do you have any good questions? And where are the important questions?

a good collection of questions from socoban with much better english skills then me.
would be nice if you can answer his questions, thanks.

1 scan of a paper, and KARM will be fine. Is that much to ask? There were 3 pumps connected with lill.com sell anouncement, that was plenty of time to cash out 20-50 BTC. There was never any proof, just that Kosmost said that. Is that much to ask for 1 single proof? If there was so much time invested into KARM, than it is worth to proof that time was not a perfect scam.  

1. Why there was dumping yesterday?
2. Why we had to wait till 1.st september? It was anounced as protection of KarmaShares payout to pay only KARM belivers, in fact it was dump on Karmashares belivers.
3. Why everyone trust someone who he never met? It is time to prove at least 1 claim.
4. If there will be no proof, I am out and many others will leave and spread bad words about KARM. All the development looks like suicidal headshot.
5. I really really hope, I am wrong.

I second and third that.

What is the solution then?
Selling your coins so you stop being a bagholder?

What if you putted some effort in some Karma related project?

Sorry, I don't follow other coins.

Which questions do you feel are most important that need answering?

Man... I will gladly pay Kosmot a nice dinner + drinks anytime if I ever have the opportunity to do so.
Only the guys that have been doing some work (even small stuff...) for karma/karmashares can truly appreciate the effort Kosmost has been putting on the project.