Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 234. (Read 583278 times)

Thanks for this ACG

To anyone who would like to get an easy 1000 karma just for the fun of it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2c4nnl/got_karma/

follow me on twitter and there's another 1000 karma for using GOT KARMA? in your twitter msg too.

yes i have x11-stratums running in test here.

after block 254,999 and before block 255,000 i will switch from scrypt to x11. automagically. _minimal_ downtime

both mpos and p2pool are ready with backup stratums on both (backup stratums in another datacenter than primary stratums).

i can handle up to 16,000 clients on the current setup.

doing good is good.

Veribit article is here.. its actually quite easy to implement.

http://www.coindesk.com/vericoin-altcoin-spend-wherever-bitcoin-accepted/

the stability fund argument is here:

http://www.nautiluscoin.com/stability-fund/

this is no different from the fund (ie huge stash of Karma) that Karmashares holds only that instead of just holding it an experienced trader is actively using some of the coins to buy and sell in order to give the coin more volume and price stability.

Alphi, can you be more specific and give more details about stability fund and portal, so I can add these propositions here - http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,516.msg2787.html#msg2787

it's a HARD fork, which means that any version of the wallet <0.8.6.5 will not be able to sync to the blockchain, the new wallets will just no accept connection from old wallets.

you CAN send transactions out with an old client but they won't be picked up by the blockchain hence you will be sending your karma into oblivion.

hope that clears it up.

1) I meant that the community has no say in how an independent entity such as an exchange conducts its business and nor should they expect to.

2) I agree...

4) I would argue that Mintpal lost its volume because it got hacked and then colluded with coin devs to save its (and their) asses. We can be thankful that they did that because we may every well have lost many coins if they went under, but at the very least we should be aware of the ramifications. Trust in mintpal (and all exchanges for that matter) has been broken and it takes time for that trust to come back. This is at the core of the issue and I don't think that pushing mintpal to make changes just to benefit any particular coin will do much good considering how much pressure they are already under just to stay alive.. but by all means suggest it to them if you think its worth it. Personally though I think it would make arbitrage extremely difficult to have prices listed one way on one exchange and listed a completely different way on another exchange and arbitrage is what irons out the volatility and creates stability.

5) you welcome ideas that's great... I have been offering ideas since the second week of this coins life..  selling lil and reinvesting the money would be great, establishing a stability fund that actively trades Karm to reduce the impact price volatility would be great, creating a portal the way VRC does that allows anyone to spend Karma on any bitcoin accepted site would be great. the continuous charity work which is being done by members of the community is great. Porting the counter party protocol onto karma (ala doge party) would be great.


I agree and i would like to see this happen more often. Also I would add that looking at the success and failures of other coins and learning from them is also a sign of maturity.

1) Of course, a vote is not required. Since it is a Karma issue. However, we tend to get feedback from the community before decisions are made. (This is not to say that the community has control over decision-making. it is the same as any other coin, except we usually ask for feedback.)

2) All ideas are welcome. Of course. We don't want to kill babies

3) no response, as it wouldn't be productive

4) I would argue that they're looking for legitimate coins. Karma(coin) was their second coin, and actually the coin that put Mintpal on the map. We're also legitimate, and would want them to know that we're serious about our success and actually have plans for ourselves. It could be said that we'd want to fortify our relationship further by working with Mintpal on changes that could possibly help us both. Mintpal needs volume (and transaction fees). It's possible that Karma could once again be their top coin.

We don't know which are good ideas and which are not. That's why we discuss, debate, explore, and sometime impkement.

I would say let's bring all ideas to the table and discuss them, as adults with goals tend to do. We can explore which of those may possibly be good but of course we won't know until well after an idea is implemented, if ever.

You are welcome to bring more of your own ideas to the table, of course. The more detail, the better.

When people have ideas I usually ask something like, "That sounds interesting. When can you start working on it?" I'd say that 95% fall silent because they don't actually want to do anything; just talk. Talking is good but it doesn't do the work.

To have an idea and be willing to take responsibility for its success or failure is something to be commended. Embracing possible failure is what separates the successful from the unsuccessful. It's also a sign of maturity.

Ya'll got any more of dem, KARMAs?

+1

1) the community need not agree, they have no say in how the exchanges operate.

2) as for the last bright idea to reverse split karma 1 for 1000 (which thankfully did not go through)... just take look at SAT2.. after the split the price of SAT2 tanked.

3) you advocated for the move to the BTC market, you advocated for the BTC market not to open until after the block reward drop. you got exactly what you wanted.. why no happy face? is it because the price didn't skyrocket as you expected?

4) mintpal is currently undergoing a change of ownership they are also suffering large volume losses caused by the VRC hack that almost killed their exchange. As a results they have tightened procedures and are now spring cleaning and chopping the weaker coins from their markets. So to me it would seem like not a good time to push them to do even more work.

only one saying comes to mind... be careful what you wish for.

Subtle marketing effort.

GOT KARMA?

http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,519.msg2823.html#msg2823

For this to be implemented it requires just 2 things:
1. The community to agree that it is a good idea; and
2. The exchange to do the implementation.

Follow up work would simply be ensuring future exchanges know about the preference and noting the activity of the exchanges that have implemented it compared to those that haven't.

Therefore I will outline the benefits to each below. Please feel free to add to the list.

1. Why it is a good idea for Karma holders

1. It will increase the volume traded due to increased granularity. This is important because it makes the cryptocurrency look more active and as if it is actually being used, even if it is for trading on exchanges.

2. If KARM is more traded a day trader that was just looking at the charts and doing a quick trade might actually look into KARM more. "Ohh it's actually called Karma, that's a good name" "Ohh it actually has all this other stuff going on behind it".

3. Increased trading volume means exchanges are more likely to list Karma, which in turn means more people know about and may become active in the Karma community.

4. It makes Karma prices more flexible to changes in value of Karmashares LLC and improvements to Karma itself, which I'd like to think are generally good and will therefore increase prices. As many of you are aware the price wasn't impacted by an announcement that holders of the Karma could potentially receive a pay out of greater than what Karma was actually trading for on the market. This announcement should have had a notable impact on prices.

5. It allows people to buy/sell large quantities of Karma easier at a fair rate in Bitcoin instead of Litecoin. Due to ignorance or laziness people have sold Bitcoins worth of Karma at 2 Satoshi, instead of 2.5 Satoshi worth in Litecoins. At the moment if you want to sell Karma in Bitcoin you are selling to people at 2 Satoshi, those people can then resell the Karma at 3 Satoshi for a 50% mark up. At the moment it is very likely the price will go up again so buying at 2 Satoshi is a reasonably safe investment as far as crpytocurrencies are concerned.

6. It allows people to buy or sell and then change their mind without it costing them 5% of their value just on the spread, that's the difference between 19 and 20 Satoshi. It would currently cost somebody 1/3rd (33%) of their holdings.

7. At the moment it is likely there is queing, people think "yeah I'd probably sell at 7 Satoshi so I'll put my order in now so I'll be the first person to sell instead of the last. If I change my mind I can probably rebuy at 6 or 7 myself to other people that will put orders behind me." This type of thinking can make it look like there are far more people interested in selling Karma than may actually want to, again it also locks in prices and means people are less interested in buying Karma.

8. It decreases the attractiveness of trying to lock Karma between 2 price points or manipulating the market in other ways. For example, locking Karma between 2 and 3 Satoshi results in a 50% gain on every trade. As discussed above people are making these transactions. If the market recovers to a decent buy order at 3 and you were willing to sell all your 1 billion or more Karma at 3 Satoshi you could put your sell order at 3 Satoshi and a buy order at 2 Satoshi with the Bitcoin you just got from your sale. If nobody buys you out fully you could end up selling those coins at 4,5,6 Satoshi (1,2,3 iterations). I don't think this would happen at 3 Satoshi, but 4-5? 19-20? This opportunity shouldn't be there. Stagnation can kill any cryptocurrency.

9. It improves how people perceive Karma. Coins at less than 10 units of measurement (either Satoshi or Litoshi) are more risky because generally (with the exception of Karma's revival) it means the eventual delisting from exchanges and ultimate death of the cryptocurrency. A cryptocurrency trading at 2,000 Satoshi (even in lots of 1,000) doesn't look like it is on the ropes to people that are looking at just the prices of 100 cryptocurrencies however at 3, even 6 Satoshi it doesn't look good. Traders will convert to active community members which will convert to long term value.

10. Due to the granularity issue Karma is only partly listed on the Bitcoin market. Prices have reverted back to when it wasn't listed on the Bitcoin market, this is because effectively it might as well not be listed right now due to a low volume.

The above can be summarised as:
1. Higher Karma prices (in the medium to long term, limited impact in the short term as lots of Bitcoin will need to be spent to soak up Karma currently on the market); and
2. More activity in the Karma community due to increased interest in Karma.

By way of counter argument the downsides and the counter agruments to those downsides are as follows:
1. People may think it is a second attempt at reverse splitting Karma (rehashing a cancelled idea) because it has the same benefits. It is better for topics to be handled once then left alone. I note however the majority of people were in favour of the reverse split but it wasn't done due to technical considerations. This suggestion alleviates many concerns of those that do not want the reverse split. It is actually a very different suggestion, we aren't reviving a cancelled idea.
2. People may get confused when they see "KARM" trading at 1,000 times its last price and in their joy may not read the amount of BTC a sale will give them. It will be up to exchanges to make this clear in their announcements of the change or a new listing. A mistaken transaction however should be reversible (ie rebuy straight away, hopefully only at a small lose). People with large amounts of Karma will be more careful. Given how large the change is (a factor of 1,000) I don't think many people would make this mistake. To decrease the chance of this I suggest actually making the new listing called KARMA instead of KARM.
3. If people don't understand the benefits they will consider it to be a gimmick. You will have this with practically every change made.

2. Why it is a good idea for exchanges

I will flesh this out more depending on interest by Karma holders but basically:
1. Increased volumes, which could also lead to them being or helping secure their position as the primary market for Karma.
2. People may be willing to pay a bounty for the first major exchange to introduce it to help cover the costs of implementation. I'll start the bounty off at 0.2 BTC if implemented by either Mintpal, Crytpsy or a similar volume exchange. If this idea is to be implemented the charities and causes team can take over this fund raising effort and manage the funds.

I will draft a sample message to send to current/new exchanges if the community votes in favour of the change.

Chargin.

To clarify, it would be priced per 1,000 Karma, you don't need to sell whole units of Karma or blocks of 1,000 Karma, it just limits the number of decimals. You could purchase or sell 0.00001 Karma, subject to the minimum transaction sizes on exchanges, which I believe was something like 10,000 Karma last time I checked on Mintpal.

Although this will help the price (in the medium to long term) it is more about turn over and market flexibility.

The downsides are as follows:
1. People may think it is a second attempt at reverse splitting Karma (rehashing a cancelled idea) because it has the same benefits. It is better for topics to be handled once then left alone. I note however the majority of people were in favour of the reverse split but it wasn't done due to technical considerations. This suggestion alleviates many concerns of those that do not want the reverse split. It is actually a very different suggestion, we aren't reviving a cancelled idea.
2. People may get confused when they see "KARM" trading at 1,000 times its last price and in their joy may not read the amount of BTC a sale will give them. It will be up to exchanges to make this clear in their announcements of the change or a new listing. A mistaken transaction however should be reversible (ie rebuy straight away, hopefully only at a small lose). People with large amounts of Karma will be more careful. Given how large the change is (a factor of 1,000) I don't think many people would make this mistake. To decrease the chance of this I suggest actually making the new listing called KARMA instead of KARM.
3. If people don't understand the benefits they will consider it to be a gimmick. You will have this with practically every change made.

Another implementation option available for Mintpal is open a new KARMA/BTC market with the "price per 1,000 Karma" system and leave the old KARM/BTC market (no A after KARM) there until it becomes disused and eventually the joint listing will be removed. The third option of course is just to cancel all orders and make the change. For your reference the first option was to migrate old orders onto the new system.

Realistically, I see it as more of a new exchange leading the way, gaining market share and other exchanges following the way they think is most reasonable.

I brought it up now because if the x11 transition is a success more exchanges will be interested in Karma and more people will be trying to get Karma on new exchanges. This is far more likely to happen before Karma is listed on exchanges than after.

I am of course in favour of the change.

I just had a chat with Bluetrade CEO and it seemed like he was aware but might have had the wrong code version. i sent him a link to the new code.  waiting his reply.

with in 10 minutes he replied "updated and resynchronizing"  Bluetrade good to go! 


also , lets not attack and be grateful of all the pools that supported us so far : )

Cons-e also confirmed they will be ready. I recommend to not keep coins at Comkort and Bleutrade, until they also confirm the transition. Only xhash.net confirmed they will be ready for this transition. I recommend only them and other p2p pools to be written on OP. All other exchanges and pools should be removed from OP. Seems they are not interested and are managed by amateurs.

LTC/KARM on cryptsy only now.https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/193

Possible Btc/Karma once it forks. they are watching us. waiting for us to rise in volume!

We have a healthy BTC/KARM on Mintpal https://www.mintpal.com/market/KARM/BTC

Not seeing KARM/BTC trading pair on Cryptsy.  Has it been removed?

altcoingood. Is your p2pool all set to mine X11 ?

I can both see it going very well and very bad.

Buying lots of 1000 coins could generate more trades, because of a finer granularity in price.
But at the same time generate a lot of confusion.

I'm of the opinion that we should leave it as it is.
The price will go up 10x because of the qualities of the coin network (both the technical aspects and the community).
And then we will not need buying/selling lots of 1000 anymore.