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Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 342. (Read 583278 times)

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 10:24:43 AM
agreed, the mining-problem is not the non-miners problem.

it might be seen as unfair by some but whether they like it or not, network security is a problem for anyone who owns the coins regardless of if they mine or not.

there is only one thing to say: people who consciously mine at the 92% pool are either people who are not interested in this coin besides personal profit or people who have zero knowledge of the technical aspects of cryptocurrencies and the fact they are destroying the karma ecosystem.


in think by and large most miners don't have any incentive to care.. especially if they don't plan on holding coins for the long term. The only people who suffer when an attack occurs are those people left holding the bag and even then the suffering is only temporary if the dev team is strong enough to fix things.

education is the key. And failing that then financial persuasion.


one other thing that can be done to promote the use of P2Pools is.. if a Pool is not using P2Pool and they have more than 50% of the hash, then they get delisted from all pool lists on official websites pages, threads etc..
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 28, 2014, 10:22:34 AM

how about you say if coins are mined on pool X then they don't have to wait 30 days for their karmashares or some sort of bonus scheme like that...
the pool has to be P2Pool though or it wont work because then you would just end up centralizing the mining power even further.

unfair to people who don't mine, I think

92% hash rate on one pool is far more than unfair to people who don't mine...
lets say the network gets 51% attacked.. what do you think that is going to do to the coins being held by people who don't mine?
A 51%+ attack wont be able to steal those coins so the coins themselves are safe.. but it will cause panic selling.


"some sort of bonus scheme", as you mentioned, could also be attractive.
full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
May 28, 2014, 10:20:32 AM

how about you say if coins are mined on pool X then they don't have to wait 30 days for their karmashares or some sort of bonus scheme like that...
the pool has to be P2Pool though or it wont work because then you would just end up centralizing the mining power even further.

unfair to people who don't mine, I think
agreed, the mining-problem is not the non-miners problem.

there is only one thing to say: people who consciously mine at the 92% pool are either people who are not interested in this coin besides personal profit or people who have zero knowledge of the technical aspects of cryptocurrencies and the fact they are destroying the karma ecosystem.

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 10:18:58 AM
okay im gonna start talking about this even im not sure its the right thing



can we change karma algorithm ?

since asics are getting shipped already ... few people gonna have the higher hand of the incoming karma supply .. and slowly people with gpus will stop mining scrypt based coins

i hate the idea of cutting coin supply / halving / reduce block reward / changing algo

caz all that hurt coin


but what im talking about here could it be more useful than hurting ..





hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 10:14:10 AM

how about you say if coins are mined on pool X then they don't have to wait 30 days for their karmashares or some sort of bonus scheme like that...
the pool has to be P2Pool though or it wont work because then you would just end up centralizing the mining power even further.

unfair to people who don't mine, I think

92% hash rate on one pool is far more than unfair to people who don't mine...
lets say the network gets 51% attacked.. what do you think that is going to do to the coins being held by people who don't mine?
A 51%+ attack wont be able to steal those coins so the coins themselves are safe.. but it will cause panic selling.

you just need to get more than half the people off MPOS pools (and onto P2Pool pools) and the problem of one pool being used to attack the network goes away.
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 28, 2014, 10:12:55 AM

how about you say if coins are mined on pool X then they don't have to wait 30 days for their karmashares or some sort of bonus scheme like that...
the pool has to be P2Pool though or it wont work because then you would just end up centralizing the mining power even further.

unfair to people who don't mine, I think
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 10:07:40 AM
is this a viable idea?

to provide incentives for people to mine at another pool?

it is possible, apparently Blackcoin and Mintcoin do this.. they set up pools where people provide mining power and they get paid in Black and Mintcoin.

http://coinjoint.info/pow-multipools-affect-pos-blackcoin-mintcoin-others/

whether or not it is actually worthwhile is a different question.. I suppose all miners just tend to go where it is more profitable.. so you would just need to find a balance that gives them enough extra to move without breaking the bank. If you set up a P2Pool pool and do that.. even if they all move over it wont be a problem as far as 51% attacks are concerned.



With one difference.. payment would be in Karmashares. We don't want anyone (some of whom are primarily profit-driven) dumping Karma.

The Karma they mine they can do as they please.

But it may compel some miners to take a more long-term view of what they are mining. Some may not even know of Karmashares, possibly.


how about you say if coins are mined on pool X then they don't have to wait 30 days for their karmashares or some sort of bonus scheme like that...
the pool has to be P2Pool though or it wont work because then you would just end up centralizing the mining power even further.


or I just had another thought... P2Pool transactions are easy to detect because they send out coins in small chunks rather than big blocks the way MPOS does..
so you could look for small transactions on the blockchain and reward those ones with bonus Karmashares. that way everyone who uses P2Pool regardless of where they mine would be rewarded for doing good on the network.  mined coins (virgin coins) compared to spent coins are easy to detect too so you could theoretically prevent the system from being gamed.


full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
May 28, 2014, 10:06:37 AM
just did a quick rundown of the pools

we should add up our hash-rates and distribute them among the pools that have 0-1 miners.

with just 5mh/s a pool will find a block every 2 hours.

http://karma.poolsofhonor.com/ (2 miners @3MH/s)

http://karma.p2pool.altcoin.dk/ (6 miners @6MH/s)

http://pool.terahashers.com (1 miner @300KH/s)

http://karma.miners-point.com/ (4 miners @6MH/s)

http://hasher.ca (1 miner @250KH/s)

http://chunkypools.com/karm (0 miners)

http://karma.hashstrike.com (down)

http://xhash.net (19 miners @35MH/s)

http://karm.multi-pool.eu (212 miners @505MH/s)

i am mining 1mh/s at karma.p2pool.altcoin.dk and i will move that to one of the other pools with <6MH/s when the pool has 1MH/s extra.

i was mining reddcoins/renting out my mining rig, but karmas mining situation is totally fucked so i am back mining karmas for the health of the network.

(yes i forgot poolsofhonor i am gonna edit it)
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 10:05:15 AM
Yes at the very least use another pool than the one carrying 92% of the hashing power. #*&#^*&^#$ *deleted*

ok dude calm down... just let the core team know. if people on the inside are involved then they should be educated on the seriousness of the issue.
a hard fork will not destroy the coin but it will cause a big PR and technical headache and so we should try to avoid it at all costs. we really just need to get the education up about NOT using pools and pool software that can be used to destabilize the network.

Quote
it will cause a big PR and technical headache and so we should try to avoid it at all costs
any means necessary? right now we should reach out to everyone who has exchanges or does any kind of transactions with karma and tell them to up the confirmation time to atleast 100 (i am not even sure 100 is enough).

yeah fast block times cause this kind of problem.. I'm guessing you would need to guestimate how long someone could take over the network before the network can react.. then divide that by the block time and that should be your number for confirmations needed for exchanges. so you are probably right about 100 not being enough...
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 28, 2014, 10:03:44 AM
is this a viable idea?

to provide incentives for people to mine at another pool?

it is possible, apparently Blackcoin and Mintcoin do this.. they set up pools where people provide mining power and they get paid in Black and Mintcoin.

http://coinjoint.info/pow-multipools-affect-pos-blackcoin-mintcoin-others/

whether or not it is actually worthwhile is a different question.. I suppose all miners just tend to go where it is more profitable.. so you would just need to find a balance that gives them enough extra to move without breaking the bank. If you set up a P2Pool pool and do that.. even if they all move over it wont be a problem as far as 51% attacks are concerned.



With one difference.. payment would be in Karmashares. We don't want anyone (some of whom are primarily profit-driven) dumping Karma.

The Karma they mine they can do as they please.

But it may compel some miners to take a more long-term view of what they are mining. Some may not even know of Karmashares, possibly.
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 28, 2014, 10:00:16 AM
an interesting discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/26oyw1/howto_kill_any_100_pos_coins_owning_less_than_1/

"kill any 100% PoS coins owning less than 1% of all coins."

not sure if this has been addressed
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 10:00:06 AM

An idea for mining may help, too.

I'm assuming you're able to see what hashing power someone brings to your site, and for how long they've been mining?

How about a "Hash for Shares" program whereby we give miners a piece of the pie for providing hashing power?

we could say that for every 7 days you mine you'll get X shares multiplied by your hashrate.

(I could fund this from the 1,084,289 shares that I own)

Any idea how this could work?

is this a viable idea?

to provide incentives for people to mine at another pool?

it is possible, apparently Blackcoin and Mintcoin do this.. they set up pools where people provide mining power and they get paid in Black and Mintcoin.

http://coinjoint.info/pow-multipools-affect-pos-blackcoin-mintcoin-others/

whether or not it is actually worthwhile is a different question.. I suppose all miners just tend to go where it is more profitable.. so you would just need to find a balance that gives them enough extra to move without breaking the bank. If you set up a P2Pool pool and do that.. even if they all move over it wont be a problem as far as 51% attacks are concerned.

hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 28, 2014, 09:50:53 AM

An idea for mining may help, too.

I'm assuming you're able to see what hashing power someone brings to your site, and for how long they've been mining?

How about a "Hash for Shares" program whereby we give miners a piece of the pie for providing hashing power?

we could say that for every 7 days you mine you'll get X shares multiplied by your hashrate.

(I could fund this from the 1,084,289 shares that I own)

Any idea how this could work?

is this a viable idea?

to provide incentives for people to mine at another pool?
full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
May 28, 2014, 09:49:24 AM
Yes at the very least use another pool than the one carrying 92% of the hashing power. #*&#^*&^#$ *deleted*

ok dude calm down... just let the core team know. if people on the inside are involved then they should be educated on the seriousness of the issue.
a hard fork will not destroy the coin but it will cause a big PR and technical headache and so we should try to avoid it at all costs. we really just need to get the education up about NOT using pools and pool software that can be used to destabilize the network.

Quote
it will cause a big PR and technical headache and so we should try to avoid it at all costs
any means necessary? right now we should reach out to everyone who has exchanges or does any kind of transactions with karma and tell them to up the confirmation time to atleast 100 (i am not even sure 100 is enough).
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 09:37:31 AM
Yes at the very least use another pool than the one carrying 92% of the hashing power. #*&#^*&^#$ *deleted*

ok dude calm down... just let the core team know. if people on the inside are involved then they should be educated on the seriousness of the issue.
a hard fork will not destroy the coin but it will cause a big PR and technical headache and so we should try to avoid it at all costs. we really just need to get the education up about NOT using pools and pool software that can be used to destabilize the network.
full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
May 28, 2014, 09:26:26 AM
IMPORTANT.. if you want to have a secure network then please try to use P2Pool Pools...   P2Pool has built in protection that can help against 51% attacks and DDOS.
those are the pools where you mine using your Karma Address with no password.


P2Pool based pools cannot be hijacked and used to attack the Karma Network... MPOS pools (the ones that have an interface similar to http://karm.multi-pool.eu/) CAN.

Just friendly advice if people are interested in the security of the network.


Don't forget about xhash.net. I've been mining there for the last 2 weeks with rock solid results. They only have about 30 mh/s of the 550+mh/s network. I've had 0 getwork failures and 0 remote failures so far over the last 2 1/2 days of consecutive mining since my last reboot/power failure. I'm mining with about 800 kh/s and get about 12,000 every hour to hour and a half with xhash.

Also as far as I know hashstrike has been dead for weeks. It's my primary pool with xhash as a failover and it's been marked as dead and I've been mining at xhash since. Shame, I got about 3,000 coins there.
Yes at the very least use another pool than the one carrying 92% of the hashing power.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2014, 09:06:14 AM
IMPORTANT.. if you want to have a secure network then please try to use P2Pool Pools...   P2Pool has built in protection that can help against 51% attacks and DDOS.
those are the pools where you mine using your Karma Address with no password.


P2Pool based pools cannot be hijacked and used to attack the Karma Network... MPOS pools (the ones that have an interface similar to http://karm.multi-pool.eu/) CAN.

Just friendly advice if people are interested in the security of the network.


Don't forget about xhash.net. I've been mining there for the last 2 weeks with rock solid results. They only have about 30 mh/s of the 550+mh/s network. I've had 0 getwork failures and 0 remote failures so far over the last 2 1/2 days of consecutive mining since my last reboot/power failure. I'm mining with about 800 kh/s and get about 12,000 every hour to hour and a half with xhash.

Also as far as I know hashstrike has been dead for weeks. It's my primary pool with xhash as a failover and it's been marked as dead and I've been mining at xhash since. Shame, I got about 3,000 coins there.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
May 28, 2014, 08:28:15 AM
This thread is still very active, that's interesting, price could explode at any time Grin

And if you can submit entries to our contest maybe we can detonate that earlier. What do you say are you in?
sr. member
Activity: 429
Merit: 250
May 28, 2014, 08:21:22 AM
This thread is still very active, that's interesting, price could explode at any time Grin

For sure, KARMA is may be the most active coin for now. Flying under the pumpers radar  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1001
May 28, 2014, 08:19:43 AM
This thread is still very active, that's interesting, price could explode at any time Grin
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