Topic: [ANN][KMD][dPoW] Komodo - An Open, Composable Smart Chain Platform, Secured by B - page 146. (Read 1192053 times)

P-Trump lets talk about a potential arrangement.

I don't begrudge early adopters getting rewarded for joining crypto projects before they took off (but I do feel envious). You used your time wisely to stay informed about what was going on in the early stages, and you had good community reputation to get elected, but I disagree that you actually took on much 'risk'. That's not to say you don't have a large stake in kmd too, but unless you're a mega whale who got in on your own votes only, your risk was only proportional to your personal stake, e.g if 10% of your vote quota came from yourself, then your 'stake' risk was 10%, and the other 90% stake risk came from those who voted for you.

It's nobodies business what your stake is, and maybe your personal vote did put you over the line, but your personal 'risk' was only proportional to your own stake.

I see a big difference with other coins like DASH or STRATIS that have similar monopoly restrictions on masternodes etc, as in those cases to get a privileged node with extra earning potential you need to upfront a lot of coins, well over 1mil USD now for STRATIS. I see a clear difference in the risk/reward calculation for KMD and those other coins, and for other PoS coins where earnings are 100% correlated with the size of your stake.

I actually think the KMD system is better than those other coins, because it gives active people with no funds a chance to get involved - convert enthisiasm, time, talent - into coins. You can't do that in other communities, but you can in Komodo, and looks like that might be what you did so far. Other guys maybe not, possible a few guys slipped through last election who do very little for komodo, but still get a great risk free monthly bonus, especially the ones paying other guys to run their nodes. Hopefully the election process reveals who those guys are (if they exist), and the community votes them out in favor of productive people and/or spreads the profits to KMD holders through pools.




I'll definitely consider running, but I'm not a linux user, so would have to hire someone now, have the node up and running in case I won, and then get elected. There's some significant risk there for a small player like me, the node cost is certain, but getting elected is definitely not. If it was possible to get elected, and then have a grace period to organise the node then yes, I will run, but if not, then I will hope to join a pool with my KMD. I do like the idea that some notary profits should go to KMD holders, that would add dividends to the KMD mix, and that would increase value of KMD.

Fortunately I was in the top half of notaries this cycle, so my single node is safe for another year.  

Erroneous to assume that I havent taken risk or have stake.  I do have significant stake in KMD , and take the same risk with my votes as everyone else does.  I follow the notarynode channel and participate in the discussions on scaling komodo, and was a testnet operator and do know how to keep my node updated ( Just not that proficient ).  Having someone more experienced manage my node, doesn't mean that I can slack on knowing what is going on.  

From my perspective,  a few veteran network admins / cybersecurity experts can maintain all the notary nodes if necessary.  Having a decent variety of node operators distributed across the world, with unique perspectives and skillsets is necessary,  however  its easier ensure that all the nodes are updated and maintained when you have to wrangle up a number of operators that is less than the maximum.  A happy middle I think can be obtained,  if it appears to be too centralized for peoples taste then they will vote for unique operators.  

The issue with security that concerns me is from political bickerings rather than on the tech side.  Currently this is not an issue with Komodo,  but as we have seen in other coins ( Bitcoin/Ethereum)  politics can make even simple solutions  arduous tasks.    


@BigNaturals   Good Luck next election if you decide to run!

Where can I find out more information about the election and the system requestment to run a notary node?

Notary election is going to be important. And possible the increase of notary servers would further secure the dPoW operation. Node opearators are the guardians of Blockchain , so for us to participate on election is a privilege .

Oh, I agree 100%, play the ball, this should not get into personal atracks. We are all free to run in the election, it's a good system, time will weed out the leeches so eventually all notary profits will go either to people doing good work for Komodo, or based on some hybrid form of PoS pools like P-Trump is arguing for.

Guys like @polycryptoblog do a lot of good work for the community, if you think you can do the same or better then 'do it', and try and get elected yourself, nothing stopping you is there. If competition for notaries makes komodo community more active it benefits everyone, just play the ball, not the man.

It's good that your using some of your notary profit to help komodo, but I think there are many guys with no tech skills who would like to take your place, I'm one of them!

1500 KMD @ 3.90 = 5850 USD at todays prices, and this is AFTER recent crash .... and another guy does the work. Even if you paid that guy 2K USD a month, you're making ~1000 USD a week - who reading wouldn't want this deal? No risk, no stake, no (compulsory) work.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm jealous as hell, and think guys like you have a target on your back in this election ... I want what you have bro

You seem to forget that most of the coin generation is done through the 5% APR and not mining.

Mining Rewards per Year =  3x1440x365 = 1576800 coins
Estimated APR Rewards = 5 million.

So a little under 6.6 million coins produced a year. 

Notary Node Approximate Year Income = 15000 KMD

(15000x64)/6600000  =  14.5 %

The whitepaper seems to disagree:

Of the approximately 6.7 million Komodo created a year,   you are complaining about a notary which makes like 15k KMD a year before expenses.  That is 0.2% of the coin generation.  Even if a notary controlled 4 nodes, it is still less than 1% of coin production in a year.  All 64 notary nodes combined are less than 15% of the coin production.

Thats not a monopoly. 

I am one of the notaries who pays to have his node maintained.  My rationale behind this is,  my service provider has much more experience in network adminstration and infosec than i do and has demonstrated that he can keep up with updates, notarizations and respond in an attack scenario, which he did during the coin creation attack early in komodo's history.

The Notary Node funds that have been produced by my node have been used for many different Komodo related things including:

-Coinpayments.net integration

-Having a Komodo Book written for us:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Komodo-Fuel-SuperNET-Concise-History/dp/1981831452

-Conference materials

-Advertising

-Giveaways

Additionally, due to my inability to get a sweepstakes website up and running ( legal issues not technical ),  I am planning to use the remaining funds of the notary year to establish masternodes in various BarterDEX enabled coins, the proceeds of which will be sold at discount on BarterDEX to encourage use of our DEX to many communities.


I wanted to point this out,   as there is there are misconceptions about  some of us notaries that aren't tech gurus, that we just leech the funds for solely personal profit.

SuperNET will get approx 50% of the payout that DEX gets

SuperNET paid out almost a million dollars worth in December, it gets revshares from not just DEX, but also JUMBLR, CRYPTO and the other assets that should start revenues later

Not sure why you feel SuperNET had more value when it was a NXT asset

and what sort of payouts will Unity/Supernet receive vs DEX?  Even less?  I am having a hard time understanding the value of Supernet after the migration to Komodo. 

So with that volume you would be getting 1$ monthly for every DEX token that you hold?
Sound pretty good if you convert 1000 KMD into 37 000 DEX tokens (current price).
However the volume on KMD vs DEX is terrible atm and I guess one would hardly convert 1000 KMD into DEX without mooning the price of DEX.

Yep, I'm a minow mysèlf, and I experience plenty of angst and envy in the cryptpsphere nearly everyday, but pools are a way to reduce the barriers, that's why I think they're both inevitable, and a good thing. I'll give you an example I came across recently from another coin Stellar XLM.

XLM has 1% inflation built into their distribution, but only accounts with a ridiculously high number of 'votes' have been allowed to claim the 1%, which is shared betwèen claiming accounts weekly. We're talking massive vote counts, like 0.05% of total supply which is currently about 60 mil XLM, which normal people obviously don't have.

Then an unknown guy in China setup a pool, but he took a 10% commission, so after a while people got pissed off and thought he was gauging too much, and then other guys setup a community pool based off donations, so now small guys like me can share the 1% weekly inflation payout. The point is the XLM devs wanted the 1% inflation, but they didn't prescribe how it would work, just that only accounts with millions of votes would get it. I think the same thing will happen with Komodo notaries, the community will work it out.

https://www.stellar.org/developers/guides/concepts/inflation.html

50,000,000 / 777 = 64,350 per day which would end up with about $1 per month per DEX

I think that if one is willing to part with a portion of one's revenue stream to have an "employee" then that's his/her prerogative.

My "angst" issue is the massive barrier to entry in anything that's "voted on" while $35k is considered "small scale" in the voting process.
For the record: this isn't about me, personally, other than using myself as an example.

is it possible to convert the12 words seed into a 24 words seed. my coins are lost otherwise

@ComputerGenie, you should direct your angst at these guys, if they exist. Are there guys operating notaries with small stakes, who just pay another guy to do the work? That's a gravy train!

Each to their own, why is investing your KMD into GPU's for mining more KMD better than someone else investing their KMD to get a notary node any way they can? I don't get the sour grapes attitude, other than stock standard crypto jealousy of guys with bigger stacks.

Tech guys would obviously like to get voted in based solely on their skills and reliability, but what other decentralised crypto do you know of that works that way? Every crypto I know of either sells coins in ICO's, or let's people mine them with hardware, or uses some form of staking, so expecting something different with kmd is naive. Lisk, Heat, WAVES, XLM, Ardor all offer pools of some sort for small holders to earn some money, Komodo notary is difficult to setup but many can do it, so pools for notaries looks inevitable, why on earth would that be a bad thing? Wouldn't it be good to share notary profits, at least not complain that it is somehow 'unfair'?

notary nodes are a monopoly by design, it's a good system to ensure good operators, and running one isn't anyone's right unless jl777 says so. How someone gets a notary is not important, call it buyìng votes if you want, but I agree with P-Trump that there are monopoly profits here, and who gets them is best left to the market.