Topic: [ANN][NOTE]DNotes - Celebrating DNotes 3rd Birthday - Forum Now Open - page 229. (Read 814542 times)

     I agree. It will be a while before Digital Currency moves past the "early adopter" stage. How long of a while is up for debate. There will be a tipping point when it will move rather quickly. In the World of Digital Currency, it seems as though EVERYTHING moves at light speed. With that said, that point could be reached in a year or two, but it would not surprise me if it was reached by the end of the year.
     One huge way DNotes is different from others is that we are focusing on folks that are NOT into Digital Currency. We are focusing on children, students, folks saving for retirement, and, most importantly (in my opinion), on small business. Small businesses are the BACKBONE of our country. They are the BACKBONE of our economy. And they are suffering greatly in these troubled times. As small business goes, so goes the country. Bitcoin's early adopters were computer geeks that could see the brilliance of the blockchain. DNote's early adopters will be children, students, small business owners and their lucky employees, and regular folks like you and me.
     Great points wiser. You explain it very well, so even a simple farmer like myself gets it! Keep up the good work, and thanks for great post.

Smokey

Thank you wiser, thoughtful post and had a good laugh at the end. Yes it is important to note, someone who joins even today is an early adopter. We will do our best to make it easy and spread the word while we continue to build around DNotes.

I've been in the Bitcoin community for over two years and I still don't use my Bitcoin to buy ordinary things. The main reason is that I'm still in trying to grow my Bitcoin stash mode. If I could go back in time knowing everything I know now and not make a lot of the mistakes I made it's possible I'd be sitting on a pretty nice stash of Bitcoin at the moment. Then I'd have a solid pool to use for spending money. It's not for lack of trying to grow my stash. But a few of the methods I tried turned out to be scams, hacked, or plain unsustainable. In all cases, the result was losing rather than growing Bitcoins. This means that today when I do get Bitcoin, I'm keeping it as Bitcoin and either using it to buy a different coin, or trying to earn some interest on it. My hope is that some day I will have a nice abundant stash of Bitcoin and be able to spend it. For now, though, I'm not going to spend it on ordinary stuff because it's easier to spend fiat. I'm certainly not going to convert my fiat into Bitcoin just so I can buy something with Bitcoin instead of fiat. Anytime you have to make an exchange, that introduces cost and risk.

I now understand better one aspect of the DNotes strategy, which is to spend the first couple years focusing on encouraging and helping people to obtain DNotes, and then save them for some time a few years down the road. Since DNotes are cheap these days it's easy to buy them and that's not counting what the DNotes team gives away for free. A couple years down the road, if the DNotes I bought today have appreciated substantially in value, and I'm sitting on a nice stash of them, then when retailers start accepting DNotes, then I will be a lot more inclined to spend mine. I don't know for sure, but I believe the majority of the people who are regularly spending Bitcoin at retail stores are those who either heavily mined or bought back when Bitcoin was worth less than a dollar, and now get to spend it at over 200 times its initial value. That's what I'm hoping will happen to my DNotes stash. Buy them at two or three cents today; spend them at two or three dollars in a few years.

Given that, I think the best strategy for DNotes is to try to turn as many people as possible into early adopters, encourage them to acquire DNotes while the price is low, then save them, and during that time, work very hard to build value and more value into it. If successful, in a few years you'll have all kinds of people buying and selling with it.

It helps also to do what is possible to minimize the scam sites using DNotes. Those and the outright illegal ones.

Speaking at NASDAQ events doesn't hurt either...

Hey, DNotes people, You guys should really do all that.

Oh, never mind. You've been doing this since day one

Gutted I sold months ago

Part of the reason DNotes is different is we are building technology and platforms that are geared towards ease of use and easy to understand. As you can see in the article below, that is very different from the majority of our industry and people are recognizing the issue. We are continuously learning from customers of our existing platform, how to expand, how to make it more user friendly, and how to make it easier to understand. Please feel free help us in those efforts by providing feedback, any and all feedback is helpful.

Bitcoin Usage Low Due To Disinterest From Consumers (Op-Ed)

Earlier today, I had the chance to speak with several merchants accepting Bitcoin payments for a while now. My main concern was whether or Bitcoin is being used by customers on a regular basis, and if so, whether or not there were any noticeable trends occurring. I did learn one thing though, Bitcoin is fine in terms of supporting merchants but needs to convince everyday users to work with digital currency.

[...]

Source: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/bitcoin-usage-low-due-to-disinterest-from-consumers-op-ed/32840

Great post. “Essentially, we have been building the infrastructure of what we often referred to as highly scalable building blocks.”

“Infrastructure” is a key word builders understand very well. That is the foundation of the value proposition they count on; without which they would just wait. Once the infrastructure is completed, the value of all affected areas goes up and things can happen very quickly. CRISP For Student is a part of the overall infrastructure. The builders see it as a major highway to a new school or university and start acquiring properties in the surrounding areas because they envision that soon there would be a vibrant city with a great demand for many new homes. The skeptic wondered why would it be such a big deal with a student population of less than 100.

Mindset governs the way we formulate our opinion. Some are often right; others are often wrong. In business it often separates the winners from the losers. In our industry where the vast majority of the coins are failing, investing with the right mindset is a valuable component of successful investing.

DNotes has accomplished a lot in just over one year. Although Alan has mentioned this before, it important to remember that we are still at the foundation building stage. Essentially, we have been building the infrastructure of what we often referred to as highly scalable building blocks. Each building block is launched as a pilot project, constantly fine tuned to perfection and positioned for full scale launch locally or globally as the case may be, at the most opportune time. They are all strategically linked and served as the initial segment of our own ecosystem. As DNotes continues to grow new infrastructure, such as a licensed regulated exchange, global payment network, mobile applications and many more will be added.

Let us take a closer look at the CRISP for Students program today. We strongly believe that encouraging and assisting students to be among the earliest adopters of digital currency is a prudent endeavor. This is where many of the high paying jobs will be and today’s student will become our next generation of leaders.
  
The foundation of CRISP For Students has been built with over 40 students enrolled at this time. We will continue our giveaway program to introduce students to DNotes which we firmly believe will play a big role in their future. Students can signup today and have a real world experience with DNotes, without having to pay for it, and I feel that is a significant benefit and there is the potential of significant appreciation over the long term. Should that happened, it could be your solution to pay down or payoff your student debt.

Big things in life often start out in a small way. People who can see great value in taking the first step are more likely to be successful while many would come back later and wonder why they missed the opportunity. Signing up for the program takes very little efforts. To get started go to: http://dnotesvault.com/crisp-for-students.php

Hi again, pretty exhausted today, and must wake up in 3 hours to watch the FA cup final (Arsenal vs Aston Villa) which is at 4:30am local time... You will get no new content from me tonight, but I can copy and paste my old stuff which is relevant.

I only want to address one part that I found interesting, the reference to Ludwig Von Mises's Theory of Money, which funnily enough... I covered in the same post I copied the last content from (which can be viewed in its entirety on this page: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8810868  post #2195). In it, I covered Von Mises regression theorem which you have pointed me to; the regression theorem does a good job of explaining the creation of money, however it does not necessarily apply to all forms of money.

[sic]

Ludwig Von Mises "regression theorem" showed as far back as 1912, that nobody will accept any currency as money unless it has been previously demanded and exchanged earlier. This would make it obvious that one would need to go back in time to the original transaction that would have made such an entity count as ‘money’. Rothbard (1992) postulates that since something can not have been used as money before its first transaction, it could only have been demanded because it is a ‘non-monetary commodity’ and therefore had a preexisting price, even in the era before it began to be used as a medium.

“In other words, for any commodity to become used as money, it must have originated as a commodity valued for some nonmonetary purpose, so that it had a stable demand and price before it began to be used as a medium of exchange. In short, money cannot be created out of thin air, by social contract, or by issuing paper tickets with new names on them”
(Rothbard, M 1992, The Gold Standard: An Austrian Perspective. Lexington, MA: D.C. Heath, 1985, pp. 1-17 ).

At the time Hayek’s idea was first put forward, it was considered idealistic and unworkable. Printing new names on bits of paper wouldn't make people accept its function as money; the dollar would still reign supreme. It was also said that the removal of legal tender laws wouldn’t work, for the new names would not be able to emerge into currency from first being useful ‘commodities on the free market’ as Von Mises’s theorem suggested they must. This would have left the deeply entrenched government currencies unchallenged as money, and money would not have ended up denationalised at all. Money would remain a function of the state, holding all the citizenry hostage to its theft, and liable to its irresponsible fiscal decisions; there would not be any separation of money and state.

I postulate that Digital Currency has rendered Von Mises’s theorem obsolete. Mining currencies has turned such ‘rewards’ in the form of coins as a commodity, which has already allowed some to break through this pre-requisite to be accepted as money, and truly allowed the denationalisation of money as put forward by Hayek. The blockchain technology will allow us to be truly free from the shackles of our bureaucratic rulers, I will write future pieces soon on how I believe Dnotes fits into this picture. I’m very interested in hearing what the community has to say on such posts, and topics that would both interest and help the community and adoption of Dnotes that I could do research on.

- TeeGee, September 14, 2014.

While I do love Von Mises, technology changes economic theory, and nowhere more so than the blockchain. Our economics is the most accurate to describe the world around us, but it's much harder applying anything to crypto...

Secondly, and briefly

"Gold was very much sought after for its jewellery intrinsic value long before it became a money standard. I don't think its possible for others to achieve this feat because of what we know of what happened to silver."

We will just have to agree to disagree, my reasoning above leads me to believe that Bitcoin can be superseded. Bitcoin came to challenge the dollar, by your reasoning, it shouldn't have. In 5 years the crypto industry is going to look very different. Just like 5 years ago it was almost non-existent, and you would have probably been saying then that Bitcoin had no chance because dollars exist (but I can't be sure, so apologies if I'm wrong).


"You could do that, but with such a shallow market, you will expose yourself to huge FX risk in doing so.  So much so that the average joe will soon be asking themselves "why not just use bitcoin?".  To use that arguement would be like advocating a Japanese citizen to put his savings in USD, instead of JPY."

I'm sorry, but that was not my point, my point was that the altcurrencies are given a monetary value now, already, in some form. My point was that Bitcoin can be superseded. In 5 years time there may no longer be a shallow market, meaning no FX risk, or at least it may be mitigated. I don't presume that conditions and progress remain static in my predictions for the future. Also, a side note: pretty much everybody clued up and Japanese is turning their savings into USD, including bankers who can see the writing on the wall. A better analogy would have been a Japanese person converting all the savings to USD, and they can then spend from their USD credit card at any store in Japan, and have it instantly exchanged for JPY... meaning they can hold whatever currency they like, even for speculative / appreciating purposes. FX risk? It should be a free world, and what is wrong with more options? People can do what they like.


Can I also point you to this page https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9969847 , post 2923 for interest.

It would be cool if you continue to read and learn about DNotes in future forum posts here. I will be forming somewhat of a sticky over the next week or so and it will be sure to address your concerns to the best of my knowledge that I will get checked off and modified by the founders to see if they want to add anything. I'm not privy to anything that can't be found on this forum, but I have read the whole thing. I'm sure many strategies are kept secret until, as Dyna puts it 'the most opportune time'. It seems we espouse similar economic fundamentals, but have drawn different conclusions / accounted for crypto technology differently.

I'm more than happy for you to personal message me your thoughts. Anything that we can't work out, I can put forward to people who could answer it better than I, to be covered in a blog post on this forum perhaps?

i see huge potential in CRISP plans thanks to DNotes is drived like a bussines, instead you can use DNotes as money to buy whatever, but i cant imagine bypass bitcoin, sure pay in bitcoin accepted places making conversion but from there to see DNotes accepted in all places without bitcoin.... is a huge way.

Really deploy Dnotes and plans its amazing and unique in cryptoworld, and can call big corporations interest to use DNotes and his plans, and if this happen..... hey everything can be done.

I could help with this. PM me with details.

Actually, I didn't know it wasn't a POS, thank you.  It actually does change my impression a bit I do admit.  Though I would still believe that there can only be one commodity money in the internet locality, and it try to dethrone an incumbent money would be as futile as the silver miners/lobbyists for the adoption of silver over gold.

I am very willing to listen to what the founding team of DNotes found broken about Bitcoin and I look forward to discussing that with them, and why working with bitcoin core team to fix them was not tenable vs starting a whole new coin.

Those are indeed great features, and definitely marketable ones.  My litmus test though, is asking yourself, if the business proposition is still valuable/viable WITHOUT the use of a pre-mined coin, then why not do this business using Bitcoin instead?  What possible motive would a company have to not use Bitcoin IF their profit model is soundly based on providing such valuable services such as you just described?  The only logical conclusion once can arrive at is that their profit model isn't a service/fee based one, but a speculative one based on coin value appreciation.  Coming from the banking industry, I can tell you that banks should not base their profit models on monetary policy (and the value of money).  That's the realm of hedge funds.  And to market yourself as a bank, when you are actually a speculative hedge fund is gross negligence of your fiduciary duty.

Thanks, Grandmama. That is indeed quite an honor. What DNotes and its community has been able to accomplished in just over a year is gaining a lot of respect and admiration. This is a great turning point that will lead to great things to come.

My First Rule of Engagement:

In case you missed a number of my previous posts that mentioned this, I follow a very strict Rule of Engagement. “Do Not Engage” Those who know me well can easily tell from my first and only response. I do not make such call loosely and this is the first time I felt strongly about it and responded accordingly.

Great to see that Alan is on the list for the Innovation Spotlight for Digital Currencies.  Great things are sure to come of this and I am so very happy and pleased with where DNotes is going! Congrats Alan to be invited to sit on this panel.

Hi digitsu,

"The issue that most people miss is that it is not technology that matters here, when we are creating money.  It may be in the beginning, just like the intrinsic value of gold as a commodity money was based on its uses as a commodity, but the subsequent value of gold grew to be much more than its intrinsic value.  That extra value, is its value as a medium of exchange.  Among cryptos, that value is only present in Bitcoin, and only Bitcoin.  This is because there is only the need for one commodity money (medium of exchange) in any given locality.  In the bimetallic days of the past, silver gave gold competition only because it was used in different localities around the world where silver was more readily available for use.  This gave silver a base value because it was used by some other people in another locality and in order for foreign trade and exchange to happen it was needed.

This isn't the case in crypto, given the locality of users is the internet.  So there can necessarily be only one dominant digital money, because there are no local barriers to adoption of the currency, giving no room, no use case, and no value to others.  And since Bitcoin has already reached 'money' status (being worth more than its intrinsic base value) that dominant money can only be Bitcoin. "[/b]

I don't have as much time to post in depth because I have work soon, but luckily I'm a very fast typer. I apologise if I miss any parts out in my explanations / reasoning that follows. I have also included quotes from my previous posts that I believe include further elaboration somewhere in its content as a measure to save my time.

"Hayek’s ‘Denationalisation’ of money is the best known proposal for the separation of currency and state. The proposal includes the abolition of legal tender laws that would allow every individual to issue their own currency, whether in paper tickets (which existed at the time), or digital with their own insignia and names. These currencies would run in tandem to the current dollars, euros and yen that have maintained monopolies by the government. This would mean that DYNA could create DYNA COIN’s, Dnotes could develop Dnotes, I could make TeeGeeCoin, drug users' PotCoin, and shibes Dogecoin. Hayek also suggested the creation of a bank that would issue ‘ducats’ - gold or silver coins that would be issued to be used to price each new currency. This obviously is an exact map of what Bitcoin is to the current Digital Currency realm, and the Nobel Laureate was very confident that these ‘ducats’ would easily out-compete the over-inflated currencies backed by nation states.

The thing about money is it is not demanded, nor required for its own sake. It is not like a computer or food where people can derive utility from its use. Money is demanded for no other reason than that it already functions as money, when people know it can be used to buy and sell as a medium of exchange. Anybody may issue their own currency, but issuance and acceptance are two very different matters. Nobody will accept a new currency as they might new Iphones and TV’s.

Ludwig Von Mises "regression theorem" showed as far back as 1912, that nobody will accept any currency as money unless it has been previously demanded and exchanged earlier. This would make it obvious that one would need to go back in time to the original transaction that would have made such an entity count as ‘money’. Rothbard (1992) postulates that since something can not have been used as money before its first transaction, it could only have been demanded because it is a ‘non-monetary commodity’ and therefore had a preexisting price, even in the era before it began to be used as a medium.

“In other words, for any commodity to become used as money, it must have originated as a commodity valued for some nonmonetary purpose, so that it had a stable demand and price before it began to be used as a medium of exchange. In short, money cannot be created out of thin air, by social contract, or by issuing paper tickets with new names on them”
(Rothbard, M 1992, The Gold Standard: An Austrian Perspective. Lexington, MA: D.C. Heath, 1985, pp. 1-17 ).

- TeeGee, september 14, 2014


So, First - Intrinsic value of gold? Well there isn't any unless you want some jewellery or teeth fillings, it's only value lies in its scarcity, and balance of demand and supply. Something I'm sure you're aware of. You are correct that gold and Bitcoin both achieved an 'additional value' as a medium of exchange, so I don't understand how you think that it isn't possible for others to achieve the same feat, when you speak of currencies that prove the possibility yourself.

That extra value, is its value as a medium of exchange.  Among cryptos, that value is only present in Bitcoin, and only Bitcoin.  This is because there is only the need for one commodity money (medium of exchange) in any given locality.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree, in an industry where users' are not forced to use one currency over another, unlimited digital currencies are possible; Digital Currencies can become a cultural content type, for amusement, fun and personal value.  Like I said though, issuance and acceptance are two different things. Another point to touch on is that Bitcoin is so new and under-developed also, that it is short-sighted to presume it will be the only Digital Currency suitable to facilitate the transfer of value (money), or that it will not be superseded by a better alternative.

"In the bimetallic days of the past, silver gave gold competition only because it was used in different localities around the world where silver was more readily available for use.  This gave silver a base value because it was used by some other people in another locality and in order for foreign trade and exchange to happen it was needed."

There is not only need for one commodity money in any locality (USA before greenback?), and even if that WERE the case... Well, Bitcoin is tradeable for any Altcoin; ergo, Bitcoin currently acts as a reserve currency for all Alt-coins, and facilitates the transfer of value between holders of different alternative currencies. Alt-currencies can be traded as a medium of exchange already.

In case I didn't explain that well - say I have 100 DNotes. You're a merchant, but you don't accept DNotes, but you do like Bitcoin or Monero. I can swap my 100 DNotes instantly with a multi-currency card that auto-exchanges my DNotes for whatever currency your card terminal accepts with no effort on my part. Bitcoin is the exchange facilitator. This makes any crypto asset very valuable, and usable as an means of exchange. Over time, this gives rise to the possibility of overtaking Bitcoin completely; ie. Bitcoin by acting as a reserve currency, is providing the lifeline to allow a second mover to overtake it. DNotes, and all other alt-currencies are usable as transfer of value now, and one will supersede Bitcoin if popularity of one alternative currency reaches Bitcoin's level. I hope that was sufficient, but I'm running out of time.

 
"I bring this up only as a reaction to the DNotes marketing pitches heavy claims about the laurels of DNotes price stability, but no explanation of how this is going to be achieved. "

I think a sticky, or place on the website is a great idea to post this sort of content, and it appears that the developers are getting onto it as a result of your recommendation. It was a good point. One of the problems with forums is great forum posts get lost in myriad of past pages!


"I think if you truly understand money theory, Bitcoin is the only digital currency you can be honestly bullish about.
I just do not see how a PoS coin can ever become a money.  Because all PoS coins are fiat moneys, and in order to create a successful fiat money you must have the power of the gov with their monopoly on violence to enforce its value."


I understand money theory quite well, but you didn't substantiate that statement about why I should be long-term bullish about bitcoin and not any other? DNotes isn't a PoS coin though, I'm not so sure I agree with the monopoly on violence to enforce a fiat (used for currency also?) to achieve a successful money value, market demand decides value, and it is still very early days in this industry. It is another 'wait and see'. I don't think Google just sat there and went "oh no, the Iphone already has too much market share, we shouldn't bother getting Samsung and HTC on board to challenge using our own OS."


Given the admitted rise in price of DNotes, how is it credible to be stating that 'Price Stability' is one of the tenants of the project?  I see no strategy of how it will be effected (besides having stakeholders promise to cooperatively defend the price by buying and selling against the market -- and losing their shirts while doing so), nor do I see any evidence that it is even being done, given this recent jump in the price.

Of course, we are just arguing semantics.  The site should stop using deceptive wording and not speak of "price stability" if "controlled appreciation" is actually your goal.

That is actually how markets work, without a authority with limitless funds, there is no 'exchange rate control'. It is also not possible to sustain long term, especially once market cap rises to the point where just a few stakeholders have to pump out millions of dollars just to keep it stable! Simply not going to happen. Weeding out short-term speculators from long-term investors, not divulging upcoming projects etc does in fact protect to a degree from market vicissitudes. DNotes has a very small market cap, so of course it isn't that hard to see reasonable jumps or declines in value. DNotes has explicitly state that stability is one of the challenges that Bitcoin is not facing very well, imagine if Bitcoin was less a speculative tool, and more of a transactional one? It has yet to make that change. If DNotes can make the change earlier, well it is difficult to speculate on exchange value. DNotes is the most stable altcoin out of 500, by this, we mean that when it's value increases, it tends to hold there, regardless of the daily trading swing - which you are referring to.

Take a look at the charts, and you will see that compared to all other crypto, while Dnotes may rise 20% in a day, it tends to hold there and not crash and burn like nearly all other crypto have only a few days later. This is what is meant by stability, controlling the exact exchange value for such a small market cap would require many times more DNotes in existence all on the order book at once!!! say 100 billion Dnotes at 0.0005 would be a few million dollars... and you would have your perfect stability... except there are only 100 million DNotes in existence. You know that is not a reasonable, nor desirable expectation.

The founders self-funding the endeavour means they don't have to divulge strategic and upcoming plans before product launches, which translates to less exchange volatility. Currencies in lower market caps areas are prone to volatility, many strategies must be employed to grow through the low to medium market cap range without large fluctuations.

True.  But only if the owners are not anonymous.  Are all the holders of DNotes going to be publicly known?  If not, then there is no legal liability, and the system is very easily exploited illegally.

Don't see why holders need to be publicly known, perhaps just the main team? Alan Yong is an easily searchable term in Google, and his other business ventures are all over media attached to the search term "DNotes".

Try a couple of these?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-05-20/business/9305200013_1_pen-based-dauphin-technology-risc-system
http://themanwiththecap.blogspot.com/2015/05/interview-alan-yong-of-dnotes.html



The reason why I say it is essentially worthless because I believe any POS coin has no value.  Any present value is temporary, and will eventually go to zero.  POS coins rely on collective perceptions/deception to derive their value.  They have the most in common with fiat money as it is 'willed' into existence by an authority.  POS coins is an experiment in fiat "by the people for the people" instead of "by government".  I do not believe they will work.  The only kind of money that "the people" or the market can create itself is commodity money (because it expends labour to create, thus giving it its initial value), and secondly there can only be one effective commodity money for any given locality**, thus the money of the internet has already been created, and it is Bitcoin.

While DNotes is not a PoS (did have a pre-mine), there is no argument put forward that present value is temporary and will eventually go to zero even if it was? DNotes is a proof of work coin that uses scrypt mining - I used to mine it myself in the early days. DNotes is not willed into existence by any authority but a mathematical algorithm. I touched on the creation of transactional value from initial commodity money earlier above re-Hayeks denationalization of money theory etc. I also touched on why there is no effective commodity requirement in a given geographical area, and there is no reason to presume that Bitcoin will remain pre-eminent.  

And with that, my time is up!

The issue that most people miss is that it is not technology that matters here, when we are creating money.  It may be in the beginning, just like the intrinsic value of gold as a commodity money was based on its uses as a commodity, but the subsequent value of gold grew to be much more than its intrinsic value.  That extra value, is its value as a medium of exchange.  Among cryptos, that value is only present in Bitcoin, and only Bitcoin.  This is because there is only the need for one commodity money (medium of exchange) in any given locality.  In the bimetallic days of the past, silver gave gold competition only because it was used in different localities around the world where silver was more readily available for use.  This gave silver a base value because it was used by some other people in another locality and in order for foreign trade and exchange to happen it was needed.

This isn't the case in crypto, given the locality of users is the internet.  So there can necessarily be only one dominant digital money, because there are no local barriers to adoption of the currency, giving no room, no use case, and no value to others.  And since Bitcoin has already reached 'money' status (being worth more than its intrinsic base value) that dominant money can only be Bitcoin. 



Actually I was using the term money generally.  Of course there are only 4 kinds of money, commodity money which can spring into existence spontaneously because the market creates it, fiat money which is declared to have value, credit money, which are IOUs which stand as claims on other assets, and money-substitutes (such as token money or some types of liquid securities, bearer bonds etc).  I am in no way a supporter of gov fiat, as I do believe the gov's monopoly on violence is unjust and its monopoly on money is equally such.



You are correct, it was poor choice of language.  Not 'by definition' buy 'by matter of consequence' will be price stable.

I bring this up only as a reaction to the DNotes marketing pitches heavy claims about the laurels of DNotes price stability, but no explanation of how this is going to be achieved.


Exactly.  I think you articulated my point better than I could have done.  When the Swiss central bank unpegged the CHF, it appreciated 20%.  This was not 'stable' by any sense of the word.  Given the admitted rise in price of DNotes, how is it credible to be stating that 'Price Stability' is one of the tenants of the project?  I see no strategy of how it will be effected (besides having stakeholders promise to cooperatively defend the price by buying and selling against the market -- and losing their shirts while doing so), nor do I see any evidence that it is even being done, given this recent jump in the price.

Of course, we are just arguing semantics.  The site should stop using deceptive wording and not speak of "price stability" if "controlled appreciation" is actually your goal.



I think if you truly understand money theory, Bitcoin is the only digital currency you can be honestly bullish about.
I just do not see how a PoS coin can ever become a money.  Because all PoS coins are fiat moneys, and in order to create a successful fiat money you must have the power of the gov with their monopoly on violence to enforce its value.



True.  But only if the owners are not anonymous.  Are all the holders of DNotes going to be publicly known?  If not, then there is no legal liability, and the system is very easily exploited illegally.



Thanks for the link.  From that link:


Though I have no problem about giving away a $5 worth of investment to students.  It is commendable.  But of course the goal, if one reads between the lines, is to get more of the students to buy more of the coin to appreciate its value.  And I think there is a typo on the dates in there you may want to get someone to fix, btw.


The reason why I say it is essentially worthless because I believe any POS coin has no value.  Any present value is temporary, and will eventually go to zero.  POS coins rely on collective perceptions/deception to derive their value.  They have the most in common with fiat money as it is 'willed' into existence by an authority.  POS coins is an experiment in fiat "by the people for the people" instead of "by government".  I do not believe they will work.  The only kind of money that "the people" or the market can create itself is commodity money (because it expends labour to create, thus giving it its initial value), and secondly there can only be one effective commodity money for any given locality**, thus the money of the internet has already been created, and it is Bitcoin.



I'm not looking to invest, I was just curious to know more after I read so many excellent marketing materials and information on the project, and decided to find out who the proponents were.  On a personal level, I find it interesting to talk to and meet the supporters of different alt-coins, because they each have a certain ideological or philosophical drive behind their support.  I often wonder if they would have supported Bitcoin more readily if they only understood it better (or perhaps Bitcoin's media exposure unfolded in a more amenable way).  What wonderful gains can be made if all these people were to work on Bitcoin instead.  But I suppose those thought are very socialist in origin.  Crypto is ultra capitalist after all.



**(no market in a given geographical area of commerce will ever create more than one, because supporting a second reduces the efficiency of both their uses as a medium of exchange, thus the collective value of both monies is less than the value of one alone)

 Wow, TeeGee. A measured, accurate response to some valid questions. It seems some of the questions were asked because of the lack of knowledge of crypto currency in general. Some of the questions also showed the lack of knowledge of how DNotes is different from all the other Digital Currencies out there. It seems we need to figure out how to do a better job in both areas to help educate folks. A sticky does seem in order. Again, TeeGee, I am excited to have plans to work with you personally.

Smokey