Topic: [ANN][NOTE]DNotes - Celebrating DNotes 3rd Birthday - Forum Now Open - page 356. (Read 814544 times)

That is an excellent point, keemo. I have never thought of it that way. It is indeed quite unprecedented that at least during the early stage one has the opportunity to have an ownership stake even with micro investment. It is truly a ground floor opportunity, especially in the case of DNotes and CR.I.S.P. A few large whales are actually paying to give others the opportunity to get on the ground floor and have an ownership stake. I will expand on this another time.

Yes, I agree this amount shouldn't/wouldn't cause a significant drop, however, I believe the owner was dumping btc the entire time the site was up. This in conjunction with end of year fears likely helped the steep drop. Doesn't really matter as DNotes maintained throughout this mess which I am MOST impressed by!!

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, mafort1469. This is indeed news to me. However, a $500,000 dump with daily trading volume as high as $100 million may not be the only reason why Bitcoin lost over 30% in the first two weeks of the year.

Read more:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-ponzi-cryptodouble-disappears-least-2233-bitcoins/


CryptoDouble, a website founded on the promise of doubling its users’ deposits within 100 hours, ceased all its operations. At least 2233 BTC (about $500,000) have been cashed out on BTC-E, leaving thousands of customers out of pocket.

The service gained a significant popularity on Bitcointalk, where customers first testified about the service and its supposed effectiveness.

Despite several warnings from advanced Bitcoin users and previous Bitcoin Ponzi scams, a significant number of users have been attracted by the website’s promises and its investment possibilities. More than 200 different altcoins were featured in the investment opportunity list. Customers simply had to pick up an altcoin and then blindly send their funds to CryptoDouble wallets’ addresses, hoping for ulterior interest.

Unfortunately for these users, today the website went offline without any notice. The total prejudice is still unknown at the time of writing – several different crypto-currencies and blockchains were used in this swindle.

However, as indicated by the address a cryptodouble customer used to send funds to, the scammer stole at least 2233 bitcoins, and then sent the whole amount on BTC-e’s hot wallet to probably dump them.

While we don’t know yet the final scope of the disaster, the subsequent Bitcoin dumps are very likely to increase the current Bitcoin price plunge, in view of the significant sums involved.

The last two tweets sent from CryptoDouble, both on January 8, say:

There is highly coordinated and massive DDOS attack on CryptoDouble taking place right now. Our engineer handle it. Please allow some time. – Service is recovering now. We are still monitoring and analyzing the issue. All payouts will be processed shortly.

14/01/15 Update: A member of hashtalk is planning to launch a class-action lawsuit against CryptoDouble’s owner.

CCN will regularly update this story once additional information will be made available.

One important aspect of the digital currency investment opportunity is getting lost or at least I do not see it being clearly communicated. Never before one could buy ownership in a ground-level effort that had the promise of going big. The potential disruption is one thing. But the opportunity to get ownership at ground level is another and totally unprecedented. Historically, it has always been only a few founders who could participate at the ground level and general public has to wait till an IPO where the valuations are high and the price is really high and reflects a mature technology (and thus potential returns are already priced in).

I do not see this point being clearly and forcefully mentioned. It is perhaps a good idea to bring this out clearly for CRISP programs. I think cryptocurrency aficionados know this but general public does not. It is unprecedented and fleeting.

Another reason that bitcoin probably dropped was due to a site called Cryptodouble that ran from Dec 17th until two weeks ago. The site closed down and the owner then proceeded to sell 2000 btc on BTC-E. This didn't help the downward trend. It is recovering now slowly but that did some of its damage.

Truth be known, most, if not all of these "I'm out" people never owned any to start with or, are simply lying. Trolls exist in all forums and digital discussion groups, their reasoning for being trolls varies from disgruntled investors to those who,can't afford to play or aren't allowed to damaged folks that just can't stand to see others prosper,or enjoy a group activity. Simply ignore them and don't feed them, it make them smell bad...  

It is always better when people mind their own business and don't spread FUD just because they decide to "leave a market". Anxiety from choosing to remain in the market is a different story.

I see Bitcoin is hovering a little higher today, although personally I'm kinda hoping it drops a bit before I make a purchase in the coming days. Look at it as a cheaper opportunity to buy DNotes with your dollars than you had before!

I've been looking at some facts on student debt in the states and UK, some of them are horrifying! (albeit some figures are hotly contested). For young people such as myself, the potential rewards are well worth the risks with crypto. I'm not sure DNotes will be available at a relatively low price in the near future regardless of what Bitcoin does. Giving away lots of crypto is part of my strategy to encourage adoption, as the value goes up of each unit of Notes, the more people you can give a "worthwhile" amount to. By this I mean that I could give somebody $20 of DNotes to get them started, but this could be several thousand DNotes, and would not be an insignificant proportion of my overall holding if I'm giving them away to many people. By comparison, if I am correct and they go up by a large margin, I could continue giving $20 worth of DNotes away to each person to get them started, but would have to give away far fewer of my overall holding. I could reach more people.

The more people who hold DNotes, the more awareness and demand will exist for them. That demand and increased chance of mass adoption will more than pay off for any small amount of DNotes you give away. I think the true trick would be in convincing people who know nothing about crypto, that these 'digital notes' that they know absolutely nothing are their best chance at escaping debt and retiring early! My blog is on how to register is still pending lol.

Just wanted to get in a quick afternoon post before I went about my daily activities.

There has been much anxietiy and frustration in our industry so far this year. I found the following article somewhat entertaining and hope that you get a good laugh. Enjoy.

Fear & Greed: A Guide to Bitcoin Panic-Selling

by Alyssa Hertig @ 2015-01-16 03:56 PM
http://cointelegraph.com/
 

 
Bitcoin value in USD took a nosedive over the first couple weeks of 2015. The price dipped well under US$200 earlier this week but is back over that mark at the time of writing.

The catalyst is unclear, but many big events could have contributed to the spiraling price: Bitstamp's temporary closure, the pause on CEX.io cloud mining, and Russia's crusade against Bitcoin websites. Additionally, others noted that Ethereum has been selling off their bitcoins and there are also rumors swirling that investor giants have been selling off in the run up to the Winklevoss ETF IPO.

The typical narrative goes something like this: Investors panic as they watch the price drop, so the selling continues, and the price falls further.

But many Bitcoin advocates are unfazed. Rather, they're deriding people who buy high and sell low. A recent satirical Reddit thread titled “A Guide to Quitting Bitcoin” captures this sentiment perfectly:

Step 1: Panic Sell: Quickly go to your exchange of choice (preferably one located in a country other than your own) and sell all your bitcoin. Don't even risk owning the smallest fraction of a coin. If you really want to commit to quitting, do it right and sell everything.

Step 2: Seek Validation on Your Favorite Bitcoin Forum: It is simply not enough to sell all your bitcoin. To ensure that you later don't have a "change of heart," it is required that you announce your departure. Regular bitcoin users also like to see who is leaving, so it is important for you to tell them. You won't believe how much strangers on the Internet care!

Step 3: Make Sure You Know Your Talking Points: People leaving bitcoin need to have a reason why. Make sure you have one in your pocket especially during step 2. Please choose one of these: "Price Volatility", "Centralized Mining", "Fixed Supply".

Step 4: Enjoy the Freedom from Bitcoin Shackles.

Another user added another six steps to drive the point home. A few months later, Bitcoin isn't dead. Actually, it has soared in price. Awestruck, the investor buys at another peak. The price tumbles again. Then it would be only be natural to repeat the cycle returning to step one and sell in panic.

And sadly, this actually happens. Case and point, a Redditor posted Wednesday: “Just sold 25 bitcoins at a US$180, good luck with your “currency”, I'm out.” The user claimed to have purchased bitcoin at the US$1,100 price peak.

The author of the aforementioned guide responded: “Thank you for reading my guide.”

The nonchalant attitude might surprise. Bitcoin lost 40% of its value so far in 2015, yet Bitcoin advocates are laughing at the desperate sellers.

The thing is, many following the Bitcoin space have seen the currency “die” many times before—30 times now, in fact, according to the site Bitcoin Obituaries, which posts links to articles reporting Bitcoin's demise. Bitcoin has been known for its volatility, and these declarations were often made at a price trough.

Some are laughing. Some are defending. Andreas Antonopoulos, Bitcoin evangelist and host of the Let's Talk Bitcoin podcast, took to Twitter Wednesday:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113312/fear-greed-a-guide-to-bitcoin-panic-selling

I've asked similar questions myself and given it a lot of thought.

Before they had the 7 day percent change, I thought a weekly and monthly change percentage would be a good addition. However, what is the starting point? Is it exactly 7 days ago and whatever random price it was exactly 7 days ago or was it an average price for the day 7 days ago, or one of the hundred other possibilities it could be. There should be a lot of averaging when using these numbers if not already.

Market cap is market cap, as a standard in the financial industry there is probably no sense in really changing that. Coming up with new figures that really make sense, making it easy for general public consumption, is a great idea.

What we are seeing right now is, pure and simple, frustration. We all know this tech will grow and we all know it works and those of us who believe that there is a place for altcoins are, quite simply, frustrated. It not the price, its not even the adoption or lack of it in some cases, it's the feeling of helplessness when we watch the value of the entire market drop out because of one entities valuation.

I admit, it's bitcoin's party and the rest of us are guests but just like a party, we are all here for the same thing. I'm not entirely convinced the current valuation methods really convey the sentiment in the sector. Has anyone actually seen the formula used by sites such as CionMarketCap? Yes, I know what they say but, does it really work that way?

How have they arrived at their criteria for valuation? Standard market evaluation or customized for a digital, global market?  I have already questioned some other sites  methods and they agree they are not the best. If any of you have a really good understanding of the methods used, I would love to discuss it a bit. I understand normal valuation of say stocks and the bond market but, I don't see how that can work in crypto. Anybody game?

Two big things I take from this:

Personally I am a firm believer that it will be bigger, more disruptive and more widely beneficial than anything mankind has seen.

I agree. This is (will be) the biggest thing modern Mankind has seen up to this point. Bigger than the Industrial Revolution. Bigger than the internet itself! We have not even BEGUN to realize what the blockchain is capable of. It's greatest contributions are yet to be discovered, in my opinion. Look at almost all "things" or "events" that caused major upheaval and change in the past. When they were new, NOBODY could grasp the true impact of the "thing" or "event". In fact, most major breakthroughs have a FAR larger impact in areas that the original "inventors" never dreamed of. Same thing with the Blockchain. It's greatest uses have not even been thought of yet!!!


What is good for Bitcoin will also be good for other cryptocurrencies. “A Rising tide lifts all boats”.

As for this topic, alas it is true. True for all crypto-currency. It is too soon to try to "uncouple" from Bitcoin. That is true for ALL other coins. We do have long-range plans to address this issue, but any time spent on it now is very pre-mature. So, like it or not, we are tied at the hip with Bitcoin, and there is very little we can do about it. One thing we can do to help the industry in general is to build a very stable, very trusted currency that will make the industry as a group proud, that "cheerleaders" of the industy can point to and use as an example of what the industry SHOULD look like, and CAN be.

So, in my opinion, any time and treasure spent on anything past brief disscussions of "uncoupling" from Bitcoin is time that should be spent on working on the tasks set right in front of us, instead of chasing rainbows.

Respectfully,
Grasshopper.......

My reply would be short and bittersweet; "Even bad news is still news!"   

Sometimes there is a significant advantage not to be the first pioneer. Bitcoin is simply an incredibly advanced digital currency technology that has challenged the best of computer scientists for decades. Coupled with the blockchain technology it is destined to be the next greatest technology revolution since the internet. Personally I am a firm believer that it will be bigger, more disruptive and more widely beneficial than anything mankind has seen. Technology innovation never starts and ends as a perfect form. It always evolves and get better over time. Problems are identified and resolved with never ending potential for expanded applications. That is the technical side of the enterprise.

The human side of the enterprise can be just as challenging, especially in the case of Bitcoin. Being a huge technology breakthrough known to a very small population, it presented a tempting first mover advantage to exploit the opportunity for personal gain. When there were no comparables or historical records, human greed can always over-power reasonable mind. I believe that is what happened in the case Bitcoin when its price shot up from $200 on Nov. 1, 2013 to $1,200 in 30 days. Those are the most damaging 30 days in the history of Bitcoin. It created a culture of greed, get rich quick mentality, and the need for instant gratifications more pronounced than I have witnessed anywhere. Over time artificially inflated valuations are never sustainable. They are always corrected over time. Unfortunately, the inherent nature of human greed and fear when energized by herd mentality always lead to the extreme end of the spectrum. We all can agree now that at $1,200 Bitcoin was significantly overvalued. I will state with certainly that Bitcoin at $200 is undervalued.

Like it or not. What is bad for Bitcoin has proven to be just as bad for other coins. I share your pain and frustration. Meanwhile, remember this. What is good for Bitcoin will also be good for other cryptocurrencies. “A Rising tide lifts all boats”.

Let us hope that we have learned a good lesson. Rocketing price appreciation to the moon is a curse, not a blessing. It has caused irreparable damages to many of our industry peers. Let’s not wish for it, participate or encourage it but work hard together to earn sustainable value appreciation because of productive contributions we made to the value of our stakes. This is the fundament believe system of DNotes. It makes sense to us. We welcome you to join us and share our commitment to make a difference. A more respectful and constructive culture will certainly go a long way in our quest for mass adoption of digital currency.

Please share your prospectives, no matter how brief. Thank you.

Hi Varian65. We are always delighted to see new participant in DNotes forum and like to extent our warm welcome to you and hope that you will come back and visit us often.

We are quite familiar with SuperNET but do not have any immediate plan to join them.

We follow our strategic plans rather strictly based on an order of priorities which are reviewed and adjusted from time to time. Our focus over the next six months will be the launching of our family of CR.I.S.Ps. for retirement, students, employee benefits, and charity, along with other projects we are already involved in or currently working on.

DNotes is strongly committed to mainstream consumer and merchant adoption of digital currency. Having established a fairly strong foundation, we believe that it of great mutual benefits and strategic importance to expand our ownership stake while the valuation of DNotes is still relatively low. We all will be very proud and a lot happier if a very large number of people who are currently skeptical about digital currency or never heard of it became the next generation of converts because their experiences have been favorable and beneficial. A more positive cultural change will be one of the best drivers for mass consumer and merchant adoption.

We are strongly believed that digital currency and the blockchain technology is the greatest technology revolution since the internet. It is the future of money in the Digital Age we live in. There are no questions from our prospective that the technology will continue to evolve to become even more powerful and beneficial than we can envision today. Through both success and failure, weaknesses and problems will be identified and solved with ever increasing advancement in every segment. DNotes is respectful and supportive of all innovations that will make our industry stronger and better. We do set our bar high and take our time to do the right things. We are interested in potential partnership and joint projects, but we are very selective because of our strong long term commitment in everything we do.

That makes perfect sense. I always felt the 1k+ price of Bitcoin was artificial mainly due to the time of ramp up, no way that many people found out about Bitcoin that fast and dumped enough money into it to warrant that price. It especially makes sense if what Ross Ulbrict is now saying about Karpeles being "dread pirate roberts" behind Silk Road. He would have had virtually unlimited funds to use on Mt Gox to fix the price as well as access to users funds.

Think about that for a moment. One man's greed could well have created a sea change in the way we see and use money. Stuff like this doesn't happen very often in history and when it it does, its life changing...

EDIT: Since Satoshi of course.. 

I was just wondering if DNotes had any plan to be part of SuperNET? It seems a promising innovation and might be good for DNotes?

It is 12:06 am in Chicago. I read TeeGee post twice but ran out enough brain power to post a response he deserves. I got an idea. Just re-post it in whole, since it will be better than what I can likely come up. It is certainly worth reading a few times over.

I do have a favorite part :"The coolest thing is that nobody owns it - not the government, not the bank, but the holders. This can not be said for any other money eco-system".

Quote from TeeGee:

I have some of my own thoughts to add about the bitcoin crash. For those who have time to read what I found to be a fascinating article on the Willy Bot and Markus Bot at Mt. Gox, you may do so here:

https://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

I have elucidated a rather pertinent extract that I agree with (I do not believe the entire article is factually proven, but provides a good theory to explain the 2013 rally):

"Mt. Gox has effectively been abusing Bitcoin to operate a Ponzi scheme for at least a year. The November “bubble” well into the $1000’s – and possibly April’s as well – was driven by hundreds of millions of dollars of fake liquidity pumped into the market out of thin air (note that this is equivalent to “with depositors’ money”). It is only natural that the Bitcoin price would deflate for around 5 months since its December peak, since there was never enough fiat coming in to support these kind of prices in the first place."

We do not know what Bitcoin's real highest value ever was. What we can reasonably believe, is that the price was manipulated heavily by bot activity using liquidity that did not exist. This led to Mt Gox's downfall. I can not be absolutely certain who was behind such trading activity, but there are plenty of incentives that exist to continually pump the coin and then allow it to crash, whether those people be speculative traders, fraudsters, or players who have an interest in destroying Bitcoin by creating volatility. Working this out is not as important to the knowledge that when Bitcoin hit $1200, it was not its true value. We still do not know what the true high would have been because nobody was selling (because why would you put a sell ask up on the wall if you knew it was going to get eaten into anyway?) and this new BTC price low is a direct cause of:

1. A correction in the value of Bitcoin from an artificial pump,
2. Compounding fear of further loss from this fall. Many traders are trading on the technical graphs that include the artificial pump when btc should never have gotten so high anyway! This means traders are making trading decisions based on short and medium term graphs that have negative outlooks for a trader that works with technical analysis.

The views in the previous paragraph closely tie into DYNA's posts these last couple days about wishing to be able to 'defend' any DNotes appreciation at the exchanges, rather than pump and fall. The other key correlation is the herd mentality seen with people who are worried about the long term price correction from the artificial high that I made in my second point. Many traders still use long term (180 day +) charts, and traders who look at the same charts will tend to make similar trading decisions. Traders may be making decisions that have nothing to do with the true market demand for Bitcoin.

In terms of the current Bitcoin price (~200 USD at time of writing), one can argue that despite not knowing the true Bitcoin high, that high was likely FAR more than it was now. I think this low reflects a mixture of buyer confidence in Bitcoin as a store of value and speculative traders having their day.
I see ~200 dollar Bitcoins as the opportunity to buy a brand new Ferrari on sale for the price of a Volvo The prices at the exchanges will correct themselves soon when all the losing speculators jump out of the market.

My personal view is that one of the biggest problems with Bitcoin and crypto in general, is that too many people enter planning to swap back one day into their national currency having made millions. They are treating crypto like a speculative commodity, not a currency with reliable appreciation. These are the people who sell their Bitcoins at the first sign of trouble. These are the people who will miss out and live to regret it.

Currently mining is unprofitable for many (even CEX.io have closed cloud mining), which just leads to more dumping.


I personally see Bitcoin as having gone up from $100 to $200 over the last 2 years. The DNotes team have been wary from the outset that speculation and price volatility has ruined some of their competitors and hindered adoption. This is why they set out from the beginning to be the first stable crypto with long term appreciation. After almost one year the team is well on track to deliver the most attractive 1 year trend-line that has no downturns! Go find me another asset or currency that can net you ~2000% in a year? (had bitcoin stayed at 700-800 like it was at launch, this appreciation would be some 7000%, all without subsequent drops).

This following year will be very exciting for DNotes, Bitcoin and crypto in general. It will be the last year that a significant number of DNotes can be accumulated at a fairly cheap price. Bitcoin is much harder to speculate on, the technology and the coin is fine, just the price is not. We will have to wait to see how the market reacts to the VC raised this last year, and how the heavily skewed Bitcoin distribution to a select few affects market prices if they decide to sell.

I'll leave my final paragraph to my personal view of the true beauty of crypto-currency. The coolest thing is that nobody owns it - not the government, not the bank, but the holders. This can not be said for any other money eco-system. We are the guinea pigs of a decentralised, free-market experiment to highlight that we do not need masters to rule our lives and tell us what IS and what IS NOT money (or what money is legal and what is not). It is the first technology to put the monetary system back into the power of the people who use it, rather than the existing system where people are subject to the whim of the powers who control money, printing more when they want for themselves. The internet was created in 1994, but all the cool stuff like Google, Facebook and YouTube came much later. The advent of blockchain technology is so new, that we don't even know what the blockchain version of Google or Youtube is going to be. Whatever it is, they will pay their employees with DNotes. We own the crypto currencies we use OURSELVES, and we should respect them accordingly. This is going to be a long ride, this has also been a long post (I actually wrote more, but was worried it had become a bit critical of the US government in particular and decided not to post it out of respect for US citizens who may support various government actions. I think I'll write a whole blog on what I omitted...for those who are interested at a later date).

I had my first day back at work today for the year... told my boss I'd give her and her husband (IT guy) some DNotes... she seemed quite receptive while I explained away the advantages of crypto.

Bed time  [2:22am]. Look forward to hearing any thoughts in the morning (I'll compress it down maybe for a re-post later).

As sad as it may sound, there is no easy near term solution that is better than having to deal with the current realities and inconveniences. Most of us know what the ideal solution needs to be; decouple from being pegged to BTC and be able to accept any form of payment, anytime, anywhere in the world in exchange for their currency without the constraint of legal restrictions and crippling regulatory requirements, especially for the smaller players. This is just not going to happen any time soon.

DNotes is positioned to play by the rules; more likely anticipated reasonable rules, since there are so few that have been clearly spelled out. In the meantime, there will be a lot of hard work with a great deal of patience and tenacity to stay on the right path. Like it or not, Bitcoin will remain as the primary yard stick used in the conversion of fiat currency to digital currency and vice visas as a unit of value.

Will be interesting to watch. Being pegged to BTC is clearly a problem when Bitcoin isn't stable.

FinCEN has the KYC (know your customer) rule. Not sure about FINTRAC